I live in the U.K and in the U.K Injectable hormones are more or less banned. I have tried to get on them for a while. Most American's are on them and I think they work better than pills.

What I want to know from my American friends is........what are the best forms of Injectable hormones? and the one's you might think are the best in accessing female fat distribution?

I'm going to have another go and trying to get on them with my GP as it's something I haven't been able to try yet. I have been on HRT in tablet form for about 10 years and have also tried patches which I have found slightly better than pills.......but I believe both these forms of medication are not as effective as injections might be, so I need info and valid reasons to present a case for injectables to my GP.

I've been on injectables for 4 months, too early to comment about fat redistribution, although I did lose size off of my neck and my little love handles are kind of melting away, but that could be because of diet too. My face is starting to look a little bit different. I'm 38 so obviously they effect me a little differently than someone say 18 or 50. I inject them into my bum cheek, alternating from right to left, and I give myself a shot every other week. Hope that helps a little Meghan

For injectables, you want Estradiol Valerate, and it's an intramuscular injection.  But honestly, since you've already been on hormones for a decade, I wouldn't think that switching to injectables would really make a difference.  After a "puberty" period of 7 years or so, I think I'll probably switch to a maintenance dose using pills or patches myself.

Lia

Quote from: genovais on January 06, 2008, 11:29:51 AM
For injectables, you want Estradiol Valerate...

Agreed. That's all I've seen for injectables. Whether there's a significant difference between that and the estradiol 17B found in most pills and patches, I just don't know.

For what it's worth, my own (US) doctor refused me injections, saying he didn't want to risk infections (from the needles), tissue/muscle damage (from injecting into muscle), or problems from the resulting crazy spikes in levels.

~Kate~

Quote from: genovais on January 06, 2008, 11:29:51 AM
For injectables, you want Estradiol Valerate, and it's an intramuscular injection.  But honestly, since you've already been on hormones for a decade, I wouldn't think that switching to injectables would really make a difference.  After a "puberty" period of 7 years or so, I think I'll probably switch to a maintenance dose using pills or patches myself.

Lia

I tried Estradiol Valerate (Progynova) as few years ago in tablet form. It made me violently sick with massive headaches with excess vomiting and I had to stop, so the last thing I want is that formular injected into my system. I 'm now on ethinyestrodial which works best for me and I can also take premarin quite easily. Anti - androgens are not a problem either and I take andocur (cypretone acitate).

An endocrinologist one put me on an injectable anti -androgen called Zoladex (Golsalerin) once which gave me nasty reversal effects and increased body hair and multiple erections which was horrendous. It was like being put on viagra..

Hmm... the only injectable estrogen I'm sure of is the estradiol valerate (Progynon Depot), but since it made you sick...

I think that there are some other formulations, like estradiol cypionate, but I don't know anything about them.

Lia

Quote from: Berliegh on January 06, 2008, 05:16:21 PM

Quote from: genovais on January 06, 2008, 11:29:51 AM
For injectables, you want Estradiol Valerate, and it's an intramuscular injection.  But honestly, since you've already been on hormones for a decade, I wouldn't think that switching to injectables would really make a difference.  After a "puberty" period of 7 years or so, I think I'll probably switch to a maintenance dose using pills or patches myself.

Lia

I tried Estradiol Valerate (Progynova) as few years ago in tablet form. It made me violently sick with massive headaches with excess vomiting and I had to stop, so the last thing I want is that formular injected into my system. I 'm now on ethinyestrodial which works best for me and I can also take premarin quite easily. Anti - androgens are not a problem either and I take andocur (cypretone acitate).

An endocrinologist one put me on an injectable anti -androgen called Zoladex (Golsalerin) once which gave me nasty reversal effects and increased body hair and multiple erections which was horrendous. It was like being put on viagra..

I feel sympathy for you, every women needs to have breasts, curves

Okay I have a suggestion. maybe it's your mind that needs some change. You see , medicine is simply a way to get your mind to believe that a change will occur- Any experienced doctor will agree with this.

Here's what I suggest- do some hypnosis for transgender- go here- warpmymind.com and you will find some hypno files-

And yes it really does work when you take HRT with it, trust me- your mind controls ALL functions in the body and you can command it to do things a certain way

Berleigh, you were probably made sick by the dye used in the pills or the binder (which I've heard many people complaining about, the 1mg pills use a different dye so you could use that also (worked with others with your problem)).

Its improbable you'd be sick by the valerate associated to the estradiol because it has almost no chemical activity, except forcing the liver to cleave the estradiol from it. This association prolongs it bio-activity slightly and prevents the massive spikes injecting pure estradiol would create.

Estradiol Cypionate is harder to metabolise and thus 10x more potent than estradiol valerate.  It has a slightly less good DVT profile at normal doses because it creates more clotting metabolites due to the liver working harder to break it down. Since it stays in the system longer and is more potent it requires smaller less frequent injections. There is also less peaks (because of the long metabolism process) than estradiol valerate. Its very cheap for big doses.

But, because its more concentrated and because it stays long time in the system, people tend to abuse it. This is probably the most potent form of estrogen you can use (since the use of ethinilestradiol is not recommended at all).

As stated elsewhere, I'd recommend that you move away from ethinil estradiol ASAP (that's what you said you were using) because with that there is a REAL RISK if used short or long term.

Berliegh,

I have a dear friend for whom injectable hormones did absolutely nothing.  She finally switched to the patches and it worked great.  So I think it is really an individual thing.  I was wondering if you have ever tried the sublingual method.  In theory it should provide as good a result as injections without the spikes in blood concentration.

I wish you the best of luck, gorgeous lady!

Kristi

Quote from: Kristi on January 06, 2008, 08:37:39 PM
Berliegh,

I have a dear friend for whom injectable hormones did absolutely nothing.  She finally switched to the patches and it worked great.  So I think it is really an individual thing.  I was wondering if you have ever tried the sublingual method.  In theory it should provide as good a result as injections without the spikes in blood concentration.

I wish you the best of luck, gorgeous lady!

Kristi

sublingual method? what's that? and thanks for the compliment Kristi which I wish was true..

It's where you dissolve the pills in an area where they can get directly into the bloodstream.  Most people dissolve them under the tongue I think. . . Although I don't do mine there.

Quote from: Keira on January 06, 2008, 06:20:34 PM

But, because its more concentrated and because it stays long time in the system, people tend to abuse it. This is probably the most potent form of estrogen you can use (since the use of ethinilestradiol is not recommended at all).

As stated elsewhere, I'd recommend that you move away from ethinil estradiol ASAP (that's what you said you were using) because with that there is a REAL RISK if used short or long term.

Ethinyestrodial has been the most effective and least harmful hormone for me and the least damaging. Go and do your research again...

In the U.K and Holland it is the most widly used and safest HRT there is.

Berleigh,

I'm starting to doubt that your doctor is used
to treating TS or knows anything about
modern treatment protocols.
I'm serious here. EthinilEstradiol is not to be
used long term unless in micro doses and
if that's what your getting, no wonder you've
got so little devellopment.

I am 56 years old and did not expect much in terms of feminizing from oral estradiol, the little blue pill.

After two years on oral estrogen I asked my HRT doc about injectibles.

I have been on them since 2004 and I have the results to show for it. 

I inject myself twice a month, as I was taught to do, and I only know this:  I got better results than I ever imagined I would get from oral estrogen.

Is estradiol valerate injectible really banned in UK?  I found compounding pharmacies in the States as well as Canada.  I get 20 cc at a time and that lasts me for 24 weeks, give or take a few.  My cost is CAD135.  That's about CAD270 a year.  The little blue pill might cost more and the patches, well, I never priced them out.

Believe me, I got fat redistribution like I never thought I would, from the backs of my hands to my thighs and legs, and all points in-between.

Hope this helps.

Wing Walker

Quote from: Keira on January 06, 2008, 09:19:23 PM

Berleigh,

I'm starting to doubt that your doctor is used
to treating TS or knows anything about
modern treatment protocols.
I'm serious here. EthinilEstradiol is not to be
used long term unless in micro doses and
if that's what your getting, no wonder you've
got so little devellopment.

I have been on ehinyestradial for over 7 years and it works the best for me and is the most effective HRT.  Yes they do come in 50 micrograms per tablet and I'll probably take about 2 or three tablets a day along with the androcur.

Also I don't have an advisor on hormones, which is very common in the U.K and usually we have to organise our own HRT regime. I did see one endocrinologist once who put me on Zoladex which worked in reverse and gave me terrible masculinising side effects and the same endocrinologist put me on estradiol valerate, which in tablet form made me very very ill and coiuldn't stop vomiting for 5 days. So I'd rather be my own judge in these matters.

Quote from: Wing Walker on January 06, 2008, 09:27:28 PM
I am 56 years old and did not expect much in terms of feminizing from oral estradiol, the little blue pill.

After two years on oral estrogen I asked my HRT doc about injectibles.

I have been on them since 2004 and I have the results to show for it. 

I inject myself twice a month, as I was taught to do, and I only know this:  I got better results than I ever imagined I would get from oral estrogen.

Is estradiol valerate injectible really banned in UK?  I found compounding pharmacies in the States as well as Canada.  I get 20 cc at a time and that lasts me for 24 weeks, give or take a few.  My cost is CAD135.  That's about CAD270 a year.  The little blue pill might cost more and the patches, well, I never priced them out.

Believe me, I got fat redistribution like I never thought I would, from the backs of my hands to my thighs and legs, and all points in-between.

Hope this helps.

Wing Walker

That's good news to know Wing, when I see my doc in a couple months I'm going to ask to switch to injectibles.  I'm not the uhhh best at remembering to take pills, some days I just ask myself. . . "Did I even take this today?!?!"

Quote from: shanetastic on January 06, 2008, 09:10:06 PM
It's where you dissolve the pills in an area where they can get directly into the bloodstream.  Most people dissolve them under the tongue I think. . . Although I don't do mine there.

Yes, that's what it is.  The word means literally "under tongue."  Some, like estrofem, are designed to be taken that way.  In theory, it bypasses the liver and gives much better results, less absorption by the liver, so less potential damage.  This is the same basic benefit that injectables give.  That's the theory anyway.  Maybe someone on here who has tried it can chime in. 

Oh, and Beleigh, look in the mirror. 

Kristi

Yikes, you definitely want to look into another regimen then if you've been taking ethinyl estradiol all this time; its use in the Netherlands has actually been suspended now and replaced with safer forms due to the elevated risk of DVT.

Lia

Quote from: Kristi on January 06, 2008, 09:41:54 PM

Quote from: shanetastic on January 06, 2008, 09:10:06 PM
It's where you dissolve the pills in an area where they can get directly into the bloodstream.  Most people dissolve them under the tongue I think. . . Although I don't do mine there.

Yes, that's what it is.  The word means literally "under tongue."  Some, like estrofem, are designed to be taken that way.  In theory, it bypasses the liver and gives much better results, less absorption by the liver, so less potential damage.  This is the same basic benefit that injectables give.  That's the theory anyway.  Maybe someone on here who has tried it can chime in. 

Oh, and Beleigh, look in the mirror. 

Kristi

I'm on Estrace right now and I take it that way, although, I don't think I'm a good person to ask for how it worked since it's only been a couple months.  There has to be someone who's taken it longer that way here

Quote from: genovais on January 06, 2008, 09:42:58 PM
Yikes, you definitely want to look into another regimen then if you've been taking ethinyl estradiol all this time; its use in the Netherlands has actually been suspended now and replaced with safer forms due to the elevated risk of DVT.

Lia

ethinyl estradiol has been the most effective for me and progynova (estradiol valerate) nearly killed me, so what do the so called experts know?

Can someone list up some injectable HRT but not estradiol valerate....thanks!