It seems to me there is a lot of rejection of Jesus because people see the evil of what others have done to Christ's teachings. Christ teachings are pure and simple and blatantly obvious by the words of the new testament. All Jesus does is speak of love and God yet people who see evil in the established religions that have misinterpreted Christ's words to suite their own purpose can't seem to separate Jesus from the misuse and end up blaming Christ and rejecting him for someone else's abuse and twisted logic.

Speaking for myself, if Jesus is indeed God, the triune God, then it is his words in the Old Testament also.  He said them and he owns them.

We cannot simply say that he changed his mind.

HEB 13:8,  Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

If those words of the Old Testament are not his then he is not God.

QuoteI am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don't accept his claim to be God. That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God, but let us not come with any patronising nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us.

CS Lewis in "Mere Christianity", Bk 2, Ch 3.

Sapere Aude

"ascended into heaven and is seated at right hand of God"  I was taught that that God worked through Jesus. But once he ascended it became complete, that Jesus is the embodiment of God.

I have no inclination to argue the point all I'll say is that Christ is the law and his words are the only thing that in my opinion need to be thought of. Christ came to redeem and bring the news of the resurrection. Christ brought the freedom from death and the love of God for human kind. In my humble opinion even through I'm extremely biased for my love of Jesus , Christ's blood sacrifice to bridge the love of the Father to the human race is what is important not the interpretation of others of what is meant from the words not uttered by the one who makes the law. As I said I have no intention to argue and this is only my belief so I have no more to say , but I like to hear what others reason for the rejection of Christ's words.

Quote from: Marlee on April 16, 2016, 09:28:27 AM
"ascended into heaven and is seated at right hand of God"  I was taught that that God worked through Jesus. But once he ascended it became complete, that Jesus is the embodiment of God.

That is not orthodox Christianity.

The Nicene Creed states that he is one substance with the Father.  One substance at that time derived from a Greek philosophical concept that essentially means they are both part of the triune God that was not created but rather has existed for eternity.

Many priests enjoy a "holier-than-thou" perspective.  They're more religious than you, more righteous than you, closer to god, and know the bible better than you.  If they're bigots, then that bigotry must be righteous; and there's an old testament passage to support any kind of awful hatred you please.  They'd rather dust off that retired portion of the bible than confront the fact that they are living a life of hatred.

See, that's a problem.  The Old Testament is not retired.  As much as people wish it were it isn't.  Even Jesus says it is not retired.

MATT 5:17-18, 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

The Law or the Prophets refers to the Old Testament Books.


Sapere Aude

The so called o.t. is actually the bible, the new testament is letters and testimony to the fact that the redeemed came to redeem Israel from the curse of the Torah. The curse comes about when you break the eternal elohyms Torah. Yehoshua came to teach the Torah correctly,go read psalm 119 and you will see Yehuahs Torah is a love letter to Israel and the nations. Preachers learned yrs ago with me they find they have no real clue to what the bible actually has to say.

Oh.  That's what I'm told any time I go all Exodus 31:14 on somebody.

It is no different then the established religious authorities of that time. Pharisees as white washed tombs said a lot. They looked great, looked Godly, but they were full of death. People have been continually making God in our image since the beginning of time and we haven't learned the folly in that yet. We are really slow learners at times.

Quote from: stephaniec on April 16, 2016, 08:26:02 AM
It seems to me there is a lot of rejection of Jesus because people see the evil of what others have done to Christ's teachings. Christ teachings are pure and simple and blatantly obvious by the words of the new testament. All Jesus does is speak of love and God yet people who see evil in the established religions that have misinterpreted Christ's words to suite their own purpose can't seem to separate Jesus from the misuse and end up blaming Christ and rejecting him for someone else's abuse and twisted logic.

Steph
Could not say it better myself. Having grown up in a evangelical leaning house. Both Grandparents ordained reverends. Grand pa got his from Biola and Grandma got her's in the mail. They, especially Grandma taught me a lot of hate that I had to disprove and disavow. It's been pretty much a lifetime calling to point out the heresy of the Book they claim to love and their hatred. .

Maybe part of it is that the NT is put together in the same book as the OT and the OT certainly has some horrific descriptions and ideas in it. It may be difficult for a non-Christian to see the better-sounding parts as equally or more important than the nastier-sounding parts.

Personally I always thought Jesus' general message was fine and admirable. I would much rather follow Christ than the violent deity of the OT. But that's the thing, they're tied together and some would say the same thing. And if they are the same thing, I would not follow it. 

We are talking about a book being translated over three languages. With literal interpretations I'd be very careful.

Why is it that people need to have a saviour outside of themselves ?

Ideals and helpful figures are another thing ...

And why cannot people feel they are part of god, like other people are  ?

Imo a lot is about control.
If people start to listen to what they feel within they do not need an outside source (which can manipulate).

This should be the content of teachings imo.

And to see many things as allegory and not literally.


*hugs*

That's kind of my issue with religions in general. We cherry pick.

If the book has been in three languages or more, which is the right interpretation then? People will still say the original is "open to interpretation" as well, like they do with the Koran that's only ever been in Arabic...

If God is inside you and you don't need the book, then what's the point of calling yourself a followed of any particular religion? Why not just make up your own version of God? You may as well dispense with the trappings if you no longer need the book...?

When people make up their own versions of what a religion means we get all kinds of offshoots to a religion that really do cherry pick stuff they want, and sometimes they totally miss the point and become awful, like the WBCs. And a few other religious groups I could mention. Then again I think if people took the Bible literally too we'd have people being stoned and kept as slaves still for mixing fabrics or eating shellfish?

Quote from: T.K.G.W. on April 21, 2016, 06:24:25 PM
Why not just make up your own version of God?

That's what I've done in my religion of one.  Is my God real?  As real as any of the others at least!  And mine has never genocided an entire planet!!!!!!!!

I think even those who do not seek him because they see evil done in the name of Christ will still have refuge if they have good intentions. Those people that misuse the name of our beloved Jesus Christ may think they're doing right, and be ignorant of the problems of others, but still have good intentions in their heart. I know Jesus can see the intentions in our minds and hearts. I also know that when people doubt my faith because I am transexual, etc. that God sees me for all that I am and knows of my innocence. I suggest you worry about your own soul and salvation- help who you can without getting used. Be joyous, thankful and pray. I even pray for my enemies. 

Quote from: Deborah on April 16, 2016, 09:17:56 AM
Speaking for myself, if Jesus is indeed God, the triune God, then it is his words in the Old Testament also.  He said them and he owns them.

We cannot simply say that he changed his mind.

HEB 13:8,  Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

If those words of the Old Testament are not his then he is not God.


Sapere Aude

there is nothing wrong at all with saying Jesus owns the words of the bible. the biblle is the contract between God and man. The contract to believe in the Lord and have faith and you shall not want.Jesus is the fulfilment of the promise to bring eternal life. The Old Testament told of Christs appearance , the great light and teacher who will come forth. My beloved Lord is that light which he so willing shed for our sins ( the blindness of not knowing the love of God). People can nit pick the words that were an interpretation of Gods spirit writen through the hands of man, but the point is the contract of life and love between God and man and the fulfillment of that contact through the love and life of my beloved Lord. People can deny Gods love if they want because we have absolute free will.

the old testament is full of void and outdated laws. normal people don't sell their daughters. most of us eat bacon etc...
as far as i am concerned the old testament should be removed. Some Christians have perpetrated horrible crimes. Most have not.

i heard rumors that someone trans went into a trance and told a priest off after decimating his viewpoints. the priest started the conversation damning the individual. this came from a lot of sane people who i trust. I would love to meet this person. <3

This is Jesus.

Joshua 5:13-15 And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries? And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant? And the captain of the LORD'S host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.

And this is what Jesus said to do.

Numbers 25:4-9. And the Lord said unto Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the Lord against the sun, that the fierce anger of the Lord may be turned away from Israel. And Moses said unto the judges of Israel, Slay ye every one his men that were joined unto Baal-peor. And, behold, one of the children of Israel came and brought unto his brethren a Midianitish woman in the sight of Moses, and in the sight of all the congregation of the children of Israel, who were weeping before the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. And when Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, saw it, he rose up from among the congregation, and took a javelin in his hand; And he went after the man of Israel into the tent, and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her belly. So the plague was stayed from the children of Israel. And those that died in the plague were twenty and four thousand.

This is neither mercy nor unconditional love.  This is in fact immoral.

Quote from: ChasingAlice on June 04, 2016, 12:17:33 PM
the old testament is full of void and outdated laws. normal people don't sell their daughters. most of us eat bacon etc...

Jesus said,

MATT 5:17- 18. Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

The Law is the first five books of the Old Testament.

The Prophets is most, but not all, of the rest of the Old Testament.



Sapere Aude