Hey, my name is Hope.

I recently realized that I was confused about my gender. I'm 24, AFAB and married to a guy I love a lot. I told him a little less than a month ago that I've been dealing with this.

I've always had a large chest (right now an E or F cup )and have always wanted a breast reduction. My issues with my chest have only gotten amplified times 1000 since coming to the realization that I'm confused.
Today I had a consultation with a surgeon for a reduction. They want a letter from my chiropractor but we are almost certain that insurance will cover and my cost would be in the 100's.

Almost everything in me wants to go ahead with it...but I can't shake the concern that it might not be enough. That I might still feel like my chest doesn't belong on me. But at this point I am so confused and feel like the only way I will know if it's the right choice or not is to do it. If I'm happy with it, then that's great and I can just keep going down whatever non binary path I feel like I'm on right now. But if I'm not happy with it...then I've done it all for nothing. Or is it nothing? I would then have my answer as to what I'm supposed to do about my chest. Plus I could bind after the reduction if I end up being unhappy with it.

I don't know. I guess I'm looking for support or someone to talk to about it. This is the first time I have reached out to someone that's not my husband, best friend, or therapist about this. I'm not seeing a gender therapist, just a normal one because of depression/anxiety. My husband has suggested I see a gender therapist. I just feel so lost and like I can't wait to figure it out before doing something about my chest. It's so...in the way, in every imaginable sense. :/

Welcome to Susan's Place. Unfortunately if you are transgender, I suspect a reduction may not be enough to make you comfortable. Some of the site members have relatively small cups but still seek binding or surgery to be comfortable with their appearance. You could attempt binding now and see if you are comfortable with a size reduction but your best option would be to discuss this with a gender therapist so you get a much better idea what it will take for you to become comfortable with yourself.

There is the secondary problem that a redo of a procedure might not be as good as doing it right the first time. Taking a little time with a gender therapist could eliminate the need for a second surgery and result in far better cosmetic results.

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I am happy to listen to your concerns. I would suggest that you talk to someone in your area who knows the procedures for both. Ultimately, you have to decide what you can live with.

I am also torn between top surgery and a reduction. I am an H cup and hate everything about having breasts and I am extremely disconnected from them. I KNOW that I want top surgery but the process to get that is longer and there are no guarantees that I would get approved (currently looking at a 2 year wait to get into the gender identity clinic and supposedly another 1-2 year wait for surgery assuming my non-binary self got approved at all)... or I could get a reduction covered by insurance within a year and then bind my smaller chest... not ideal and part of me is like I've waited 25 years to get rid of these hateful lumps, what is another 3 years to get them chopped off properly.

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Thank you both...it seems like I just am going to have to seek out gender therapy. Though it makes it seem more real and scary, to be honest..

Quote from: aliveandhere on April 18, 2016, 08:51:30 PM
Thank you both...it seems like I just am going to have to seek out gender therapy. Though it makes it seem more real and scary, to be honest..

Hi, Hope.

If you have access to a gender therapist, I highly recommend seeking one out.  A couple of years ago, I was seeing someone who wasn't a gender therapist specifically to deal with anxiety and depression issues.  When I finally faced last year that a lot of what I deal with is gender related, I sought out someone who specialized in gender issues.  It was unnerving to face the reality of why I was going to see her, but she's been extremely supportive.

I second Dena's recommendation to try out binding to see how you like it.  If outright binding sounds too scary to start with and you don't currently wear minimizers, you could also start with those, instead.  I'd started experimenting with shaping camis over my normal bras, moved on to the camis over minimizers when that wasn't enough to satisfy me, and now prefer a binder when I have the opportunity.

Quote from: MercenaryElf on April 18, 2016, 10:34:07 PM

I second Dena's recommendation to try out binding to see how you like it.  If outright binding sounds too scary to start with and you don't currently wear minimizers, you could also start with those, instead.  I'd started experimenting with shaping camis over my normal bras, moved on to the camis over minimizers when that wasn't enough to satisfy me, and now prefer a binder when I have the opportunity.

I've been heavily considering getting a binder, it's just another one of those "making it real" types of things I'm scared to do.
Tonight we talked about gender therapy again. He supports me going, but doubts that I need to transition. I don't know what to make of it because I have a hard time picturing my future, much less who I'm supposed to be in that future. Part of me thinks I may just be depressed and that a reduction will help that. I feel so blinded by this...I can't know what it's like to live with a smaller chest until that is my reality. Then I'd really know for sure. I'm afraid taking the time to figure will take so much longer than I feel like I can live with this chest. I know that I'm non-binary in that I don't completely feel like a male or female. I'm just not sure how far that reaches.

Thanks for listening..

I saw this thread before and because you might not have seen it, I dug it up.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,201598

Quote from: Dena on April 18, 2016, 11:35:30 PM
I saw this thread before and because you might not have seen it, I dug it up.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,201598

Thanks! I might go on and get one..

Quote from: aliveandhere on April 18, 2016, 11:12:44 PM
I've been heavily considering getting a binder, it's just another one of those "making it real" types of things I'm scared to do.
Tonight we talked about gender therapy again. He supports me going, but doubts that I need to transition. I don't know what to make of it because I have a hard time picturing my future, much less who I'm supposed to be in that future. Part of me thinks I may just be depressed and that a reduction will help that. I feel so blinded by this...I can't know what it's like to live with a smaller chest until that is my reality. Then I'd really know for sure. I'm afraid taking the time to figure will take so much longer than I feel like I can live with this chest. I know that I'm non-binary in that I don't completely feel like a male or female. I'm just not sure how far that reaches.

Thanks for listening..

I wasn't ready to start transition until I was 29. On my final intake appointment, my soon to be prescribing physician tried to finish my basic health, but I was so nervous my heart and blood pressure were through the roof. I had to lie down on the table and close my eyes for a few minutes before she was able to get an accurate read.

"Making it real," was terrifying, but it was still less scary than the prospect of spending another year without taking the necessary steps to get my transition rolling forward.

There's a lot of opinions and ideals I don't have anymore after my experiences transitioning, for better and worse. Becoming myself has opened my eyes in a lot of ways, and I know I never planned nor thought I'd be where I am today. I'm lucky that I had a lot of support and found a man I'm crazy about who is just as crazy about me. It isn't easy being trans, but it's so worth it for me.

Dipping your toes into transitioning, or even experimenting with your presentation can serve as both and outlet for you and help you get to know yourself better. Gender therapy may help you figure things out as well.

I didn't get therapy for a long time until my anxiety was becoming a serious problem. Part of me was worried I'd have to pass a test for my therapist to recognize I was indeed trans. But I was never confused about my gender, which made some parts of my life very hard and some decisions much easier.

I hope you find your path and that it brings you happiness

It's not uncommon for ftm's to get breast reduction prior to breast removal. As you said, when you have it done, you'll know.

I would suggest reading other trans peoples' stories and see if anything resonates. That may be one of the best ways to figure out where you fit.

Being depressed does alter your thinking profoundly and you have probably been suppressing some things for years. It's hard to be in touch with YOU when you're down.

I wholeheartedly agree that "Making it Real" is really scary The flood gates tend to open and ..... This is not just applicable to you but also to your SO. Right now just how much this gender I hate my body thing he really knows or groks? Just think, if you are not all that clear, just how clear can he be?

If you have access to a for real gender therapist or gender clinic I advise you to advantage yourself of it. It is amazing how feelings or thoughts get processed when you hear yourself put together and then say them to another person. A person that just might be asking questions you haven't thought to ask, or were avoiding asking yourself.

Hello, I was in the same place. I knew I was trans for a long time but, for a lot of reasons, never felt that transition was viable. I was also very large chested and only "out" to my girlfriend (now wife). I asked the surgeon to make me as small as he could (ended up an A cup post surgery).

I went forward with the breast reduction. And yes, you will know, and probably pretty quickly whether or not it's enough. I was gendered male even with the huge chest relatively frequently. Post breast reduction, that went up to almost constantly and the dysphoria with having a female name and female voice became crushing. Within 5 months of surgery, I was seeing a therapist and was clear that I needed to proceed with transition. I was on hormones by 8 months post surgery and was discussing having my chest masculinized with my surgeon at my 1 year post op.

For me, that reduction was a clear turning point for me. Not that everyone would have the same experience. And if you are questioning things, it's certainly better to find out before you have surgery (one surgery is better than two!). But you will definitely know once your surgery is settled whether it is enough for you or not.

Good luck and PM me if you have any specific questions about having gone through a reduction first.

Quote from: AnxietyDisord3r on April 24, 2016, 06:28:54 AM
I would suggest reading other trans peoples' stories and see if anything resonates. That may be one of the best ways to figure out where you fit.

Being depressed does alter your thinking profoundly and you have probably been suppressing some things for years. It's hard to be in touch with YOU when you're down.

I've been basically non-stop listening to people's stories since I couldn't be quiet about this anymore. If you have any non-binary folks' stories you know off the top of your head, I'd love if you'd point me that way. No need to go digging though, I'm doing that (:
And yeah, having overlapping issues makes it harder to know what's going on. But I'm feeling a little more positive at the moment than when I posted originally and feel like somehow, I'll figure it out.
Thanks for responding

Quote from: JoanneB on April 24, 2016, 08:49:00 AM
I wholeheartedly agree that "Making it Real" is really scary The flood gates tend to open and ..... This is not just applicable to you but also to your SO. Right now just how much this gender I hate my body thing he really knows or groks? Just think, if you are not all that clear, just how clear can he be?

If you have access to a for real gender therapist or gender clinic I advise you to advantage yourself of it. It is amazing how feelings or thoughts get processed when you hear yourself put together and then say them to another person. A person that just might be asking questions you haven't thought to ask, or were avoiding asking yourself.

You bring up a good point about my SO. I can't really blame him for being confused when the information I've offered up about my own emotions are so convoluted in the first place.

I really like my therapist currently which makes me wonder about gender therapy. I am not sure if I could keep both therapists or how much I would have to pay...I don't think my insurance would cover two therapists. But I should look into it.

Quote from: Dex on April 25, 2016, 04:05:04 PM
Good luck and PM me if you have any specific questions about having gone through a reduction first.

Thank you so much for sharing. You said that you knew you were trans before your reduction. Did you know you wanted to present male beforehand? I'm strongly leaning toward a non-binary identity and presenting as such... Of course I have a lot to explore still.

Quote from: Obfuskatie on April 19, 2016, 04:24:10 AM

I hope you find your path and that it brings you happiness

I do have a lot to consider and I'm sure trying crtain things out would help.  Knowing outright sounds amazing right now...being confused is taking a toll on me, but I guess we all have our own paths to explore and one isn't easier than the other. As if the word "easy" can even be used here. Thank you so much for sharing. It certainly helps

My story falls into the more "traditional" storyline. I knew I felt very firmly planted on the male side of the spectrum. When I was investigating and proceeding with my reduction, I didn't think that presenting male was realistic (I was concerned about causing problems with my wife's ex, I work in a Catholic healthcare organization, etc, there were always reasons why I shouldn't). So at that time, I was only trying to get more comfortable in the body and life I thought I was stuck with. Because I knew I was male and that, in an ideal world, that was how I wanted to present, getting the reduction actually made my dysphoria that much worse because I got a taste of what it could be like if I committed to it wholly. I realized very very quickly that a reduction wasn't enough and that I needed to do something about it. It really was a very strong catalyst for my true transition.

Leaning non-binary though does make it more confusing for you. There may not be a way to know for sure. But one thing to note is that they can always take more tissue off - it is much harder to put it back.

I'd be happy to talk with you. I grappled with gender identity for a long time before I ended up where I am today (almost a year on T, post hysto, and a week away from top surgery). I had a 32EE chest and had always wanted a reduction, insurance covered it and I jumped at the chance, thinking it would be enough. Even after the reduction I had a DD chest. I still felt uncomfortable and around a year and a half after that I started binding full-time. My partner has been with me throughout it all and has always pushed me to explore my options and find what I want.
I identify as non-binary and I'm not sure how long I want to be on T, but so far the journey has been bumpy but amazing.

Lordor, being a DD now what size would you like to be?  Did you have a choice with your first top surgery?

I know not specifically directed toward me but I think it depends on the surgeon. I was an E. The first surgeon I saw (like lorlor, I thought it would be "enough" to get a reduction though I don't identify as non binary) said that despite my back pain issues, they would only take me down to a full C at the smallest. He also didn't feel at that amount that insurance would cover it (since they apparently gauge it by how much is removed). I got a second opinion and he took me down to a full A and got insurance to cover it based on history and amount removed. The full A made binding extremely easy. But it ended up not being enough and I had the second surgery a year later.

Quote from: Lorlor on May 10, 2016, 12:43:20 PM
I'd be happy to talk with you. I grappled with gender identity for a long time before I ended up where I am today (almost a year on T, post hysto, and a week away from top surgery). I had a 32EE chest and had always wanted a reduction, insurance covered it and I jumped at the chance, thinking it would be enough. Even after the reduction I had a DD chest. I still felt uncomfortable and around a year and a half after that I started binding full-time. My partner has been with me throughout it all and has always pushed me to explore my options and find what I want.
I identify as non-binary and I'm not sure how long I want to be on T, but so far the journey has been bumpy but amazing.

I see that you responded 8 days ago and so you're probably post-top surgery so....congrats!!! I hope you're feeling as well as you can after surgery <3
Thanks for taking the time to respond. If I were still anything over a B, I KNOW that it wouldn't be enough. I've been approved for reduction surgery and have it scheduled for next month. I think I am going to follow through with it. I know it's at least a step in the right direction... and I'm afraid of what anything more is going to do to my life. It's just about too much to handle thinking about this not being enough, so I feel like I have to find out if it will be...

Quote from: mm on May 10, 2016, 02:25:26 PM
Lordor, being a DD now what size would you like to be?  Did you have a choice with your first top surgery?

I was told by my surgeon that he could get me down to a C. I was hoping for maybe a B or C. Also definitely choose your surgeon wisely. I didn't get to find out mine wasn't the best til six months out from surgery and I was still having revisions (I had to go back four times).