Being in Australia where things are nowhere near as puzzling as they appear to be in US in regards to the bathroom issue, I can only sit back and scratch my head in perplexed befuddlement. I would say it was "perplexed bemusement" except, with threats of assault and worse being levelled against trans women just needing somewhere safe in public to pee or do their make-up (or, as I like to call it... "#peedom"), it is sadly no laughing matter.

But what really confuses me is, other than the rancourous transphobia, what is really at the core of this? There's a massive elephant in the room that none of the mouth frothing lunatics advocating for legal restrictions/violence against #peedom seem prepared to countenance even though they obliquely acknowledge it exists.

I know in their sad little minds they refuse to see us as women, that they don't care what we look like or how we present or how be behave... to them we are "men". It seems that we can post as many pictures like this or this but the end result is some jerk off who thinks this because they don't/can't/won't see us as women. (Also, posting those kind of "very feminine and beautiful trans woman" pictures in relation to the issue potentially marginalises trans women who might be struggling to pass.) So, bearing that in mind... when the rabid haters talk about "men" out of women's bathrooms what are they really saying?

Most arguments against trans women using a gender appropriate bathroom boils down to "it will allow perverts a loophole to get into the lady's and all manner of sexual deviancies and atrocities shall then ensue." And by "perverts" they are of course really talking about cis gender hetro men who have no sexual respect for women - misogynistic cis hetro men who would indeed love to get into a women's bathroom for who knows what reason.

The real issue isn't really about trans women using cis women bathrooms, it is, at is has always been, about those cis hetro men who definitely would get up to some bad, weird and potentially dangerous behaviour if they were able to access female only spaces (bathrooms, locker rooms, showers), especially one where those women may be engaging in personal activities that make them vulnerable or open to exploitation (eg, sexual attack, spy cameras, etc). And, by virtue of us being labelled as "men" by boneheaded trans haters we are effectively tarred with the same brush.

Other than admitting trans women are women, what the anti-trans bathroom bill brigade should be saying is: "Yes, we have a huge cultural problem in our society with a certain percentage of cis hetro men, they are misogynists, they can be dangerous sexual predators for women and we really, really, really need to do something about them. We need to teach those men to stop treating women as sexual objects and to start treating them with respect. We need for all women and girls, cis and trans, to not only feel safe about their personal space and about their body, regardless of where they are, but to actually be safe from the threat of physical and sexual assault/intimidation/exploitation at all time. That's not going to happen until we do something about those cis hetro men who, for whatever reason, just do not respect women as fellow human beings."

But instead all they can say is "We're not going to acknowledge that, that's too hard, it can't be done. Boys will be boys. Boo on transsexuals, they can't use women's toilets."

Sorry, just needed to rant.

Of course there are many other issues (and transphobia is obviously a biggie) but what to do about it??

(And trans guys, I didn't really mention you in the above since most of the social vitriol seems exclusively directed at trans women... but feel free to join in!)

Being here in the United States, I'm scratching my head as much as you are in regards to it. The fact is some people have for whatever reason tried to correlate trans people with being predators. It seems like we need to educate them and everyone for that matter on the issue. We go in to use the bathroom. It's no different than anyone else it does. ARGH.
Hugs
Mariah

My personal opinion is that these laws and bigotry have nothing to do with the issue of transgender people, it is finding a group who are marginalised, have no political power and can be used to focus bigots on an agenda. The agenda in the USA is to gain political power for the right wing zealots who cannot use more mainstream issues such as health and wealth distribution as it may marginalise or disenfranchise themselves.

I am seeing the same tactic in Australia with the right wing Australian Christian Lobby lead by Lyle Sheldon, using LGBTI issues to focus on creating a far right power block. He is courting the far right of the Liberal Party (misnamed!) by bringing up anti-LGBTI propaganda to create support for their extreme views.

Most people have never knowing met a trans person. As individuals we are hidden from main stream society, they see the flamboyant LGBTIQA people and use them as an example of what transpeople are. Yet most transpeople live in society, quietly, unassuming and not recognised as being 'different'.

But the LG lobby is powerful and cannot be taken on politically, the trans lobby is hidden and stories can be spread.

We are the meat in the sandwich of power politics.

Quote from: Ms Grace on April 27, 2016, 03:15:08 AMBut what really confuses me is, other than the rancourous transphobia, what is really at the core of this? There's a massive elephant in the room that none of the mouth frothing lunatics advocating for legal restrictions/violence against #peedom seem prepared to countenance even though they obliquely acknowledge it exists.

it is Christianity.  Specifically Evangelical Christianity and to a lesser extent Catholicism.

To them, we, amongst others, are an affront to God.  We either deny reality or their reality is wrong and there can be no middle ground.



Sapere Aude

Many countries have Christian belief.

I feel we should rise higher than such comments in this discussion. They are close to bashing people who hold a religious belief.

That's why it's the elephant in the room. 
People that don't live here, specifically in the Southern parts of this country, have no idea how pervasive this is.  I have lived all over the country and in other countries too and the influence of "that which shall not be spoken" is much stronger and "in your face" here than in other places.


Sapere Aude

Mod edit- TOS 2 and TOS 10. No bashing; Moderation is not up to discussion

My mother is Christian, goes to church every Sunday, goes to bible study and partakes of various other churchy things - she has been hugely supportive and accepting of me.

Some Christians/Muslims/Jews/Hindus/Whatevers are trans haters, some aren't. Some atheists are trans haters, some aren't.

I don't want this discussion to be derailed by religious finger pointing.

 
Here is the deal folks. Lets watch the bashing. If you have an issue in regards to action that we take as staff please take it up in private. Our moderation isn't up for pubic discussion. Please remember TOS 2, 10, and 20. thanks
Mariah

Well its clearly an attempt to distract from other much more pressing issues like  e conomical ones and others.

What should not be forgotten is that the media plays a crucial role in this.

Instead of spreading h eadlines they could spread information like that its people suffering from a medical condition, that there are findings it has biological connections and its not just anyone making up stories, its people getting treatment for it and want to be integrated.

There should be no difficulty seperating people who have other motives getting into womens spaces.

So imo the media should be contacted by respective groups, told to change their position and spread educative materials.

Here is one:
http://www.gires.org.uk/assets/DOH-Assets/pdf/doh-transgender-experiences.pdf


hugs

Ms. Grace, the period of run-up to presidential elections in the USA is called "the stupid season".  These elections are decided usually on rather narrow margins, and candidates sometimes wind up appealing to fringe voters who sometimes follow extremist agendas.  While most of us in the middle of the political spectrum watch in horror.  Please don't judge us too harshly for the current nastiness.  We're slowly and sometimes painfully entering the 21st century.  At least I think we are.

racism , transphobia , xenophobia . etc. There is an aspect of being a human being , maybe some sort of defect in nature that produces hate towards a minority , My older sister use to make fun of the Vietnamese neighbors and an assortment of others that didn't fit her profile of what was human.

As a person who lives in the UK; I'm just as confused by this. If an MP said we should only allow people use a public bathroom if it matches their biological sex; they'd be a laughing stock and probably never heard of again. It seems like the Republicans want to go back to an imaginary time when America was great, things were simpler and religion was more respected. Forgetting that in the past violence against minorities was rampant and people felt forced to go to church simply because they didn't want to risk being a social outcast. But I bet many republics forget this because they're white, cis, straight and wealthy; so have no clue what it's like to fear for your life for simply stepping outside your front door. They feel threatened by what they regard as new and invading the bubble in which they live; so it's understandable they'd resort to violence. The best we can do is ignore them; protest; educate and hope they then reform their views.

Yesterday, on the radio, I heard a woman complaining about the way trans people are pushing to use "their" bathrooms. She wondered why we make an issue of it. It occurred to me that we didn't until people started pushing for laws to keep us out. I knew this was a manufactured "crisis" but it seems many have confused the chicken and the egg.

(I liked this response so much that it's going on my Facebook wall.)

Quote from: Ms Grace on April 27, 2016, 03:15:08 AM

But what really confuses me is, other than the rancourous transphobia, what is really at the core of this?

According to Brynn Tannehill, an organization called the FRC is agitating for these laws.

Republican lawmakers are using it as a way to drum up support. Republican policies tend to favor the wealthy, so it's harder to get ordinary voters onboard. They are using fear of change to get people to line up behind them. People are afraid that the World will Change into one they do not recognize.

Personally, even taking the whole gender thing out of it, I find using public bathrooms so incredibly bizarre as it is. Who's big idea was it to line us all up and poop in a row? My personal bubble is much bigger than a stall.

Quote from: suzifrommd on April 27, 2016, 07:53:41 AM
According to Brynn Tannehill, an organization called the FRC is agitating for these laws.

Republican lawmakers are using it as a way to drum up support. Republican policies tend to favor the wealthy, so it's harder to get ordinary voters onboard. They are using fear of change to get people to line up behind them. People are afraid that the World will Change into one they do not recognize.

Yes, and what is the source of that fear?  FRC = Family Research Council and as I stated this morning their motivation is clear as shown below in this quote from the FRC website.

Quotehttp://www.frcblog.com/2011/05/two-genders-one-image/
Those who jettison the sexual identity gifted to them by God do so not only in defiance of His will but to the detriment of their own well-being. Fundamentally to alter oneself, through surgery, drug treatment, or simply wearing makeup and clothing not commensurate with ones gender, is in essence to tell ones Maker that He made a vast mistake, and to deny oneself the full benefits of that gender identity with which God has gifted each person.

Unless you understand the basis of their argument any counter argument will likely fall on deaf ears.


Sapere Aude

I just use the family stall, always have.   I prefer my privacy in the bathroom.

As someone who transitioned in the south and still lives here. I'll say this much it was a lot rougher than it needed to be despite having my parent's support. If I had transitioned anywhere else in the US, a lot of things that I needed wouldn't have been delayed. The elephant in the room is the religious institution. We can't have an honest discussion on this issue without talking about it.

We can talk about it, but we can not bash it. It's when that line has been across or approached that we are cracking down on it. Peoples beliefs are definitely at the core of this issue and as a result religious beliefs definitely play a role in how people react and handle things. Hugs
Mariah

Agreed but that's just the thing, its a fine line to walk. This issue in itself is difficult to be able to talk about in a way that remains objective and without heavy criticism. Anyways the problem lies with the southern conservatives (who were originally democrats) they took over the republican party in the middle of the last century. They use religious dogma to hide their hate and brand it as gods will. Its the same old same old and people still buy into it unfortunately else none of these bills would of seen the light of day. These religious freedom/bathroom bills are their last stand, they know they are losing. The modern world has no place for these backwards ideologies.