I've been suffering from depression for 10 years. Tried this, tried that, nothing changed.

Apart from that, I started taking Cyproterone Acetate (Androcur) almost one year ago. It helped a bit, because it reduced my libido (which often was a source of anxiety for me).
One month ago I finally started taking Estradiol pills as well. This last month, my depression has been particularly bad. I don't want to rush to wrong conclusions, because this is a bad period regardless of starting HRT (problems with my girlfriend, worried about money and school, etc.).

But my question is: does anyone else experienced some kind of depression with the use of estrogens? I know most people start anti-androgens and estrogen together, so it's probably different for me, but I'd like to know your opinion.

Hugs and Kisses to y'all

Well it may be better to do it the other way around.
Quite a few endos start with estro and see how much testo is reduced, and start anti androgens then.

If only anti androgens are used the body may go without a dominant hormone, either estro or testo, which might not be good.

Usually people report some kind of relief when they get the hormone of their gender.

It may be possibe it enhances some moods a bit temporarily.

Taking estrogen sublingually might help avoid clotting. Spreading the daily dose in a few small doses through the day may help keep levels steady and avoid mood swings.

Talk it all through with your doc.


hugs

P balances out the E fluctuations that cause the mood swings/irritability. I've suffered from clinical depression since I was a teen. It didn't get worst when I started hrt, it improved by a lot. I started on a regimen that included E, P and an AA. Idk I feel like you're probably not suppressing your T which is why you're still experiencing depression in the way you're describing. The T can be suppressed and you can still keep your libido if thats what you're worried about. 

Quote from: Lady_Oracle on May 06, 2016, 03:28:09 PM
P balances out the E fluctuations that cause the mood swings/irritability. I've suffered from clinical depression since I was a teen.

It should be bioidentical progesterone then imo ... from other forms some people reported depressions.

Yes quite a few people say it helped them.
P can be cycled ... mood may be more stable if its taken continously ...
You might talk about it with your doc/endo.


hugs

Yep I was one of those people  I was on medroxy for the first 6 months and things got worst, things didnt get truly better until I switched to prometrium

I took a look at your posting history and it indicates you might be self medicating. Besides the danger of it, the problem is your testosterone levels aren't being checked. You need enough of the blocker to drive the testosterone levels into the feminine range in order to feel the benefit from HRT but yet, overdosing on blocker can be serious as well.

Without the numbers that a blood test would provide, much of what we would suggest would be guess work. I suggest you consider being evaluated so you can receive the proper mix of drugs to give HRT a fair evaluation.

Cyproterone acetate can cause depression in some people and is usually avoided in people with prior depressive symptoms. Estrogen, on the other hand, is known to improve mood. Too little T or E in the body can also cause depression.

J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2012 Dec;97(12):4422-8.

"Of the antiandrogens studied, only cyproterone acetate was significantly associated with depression"

"Cyproterone acetate use is statistically more likely to cause depression than the other antiandrogen types used in this study. These results are consistent with previous studies using cyproterone acetate to treat hirsutism (11–13). It is, however, the first time this has been reported in transwomen. The incidence of depression was much lower in those using GnRH analogs, which is consistent with the findings of Dittrich et al. in 2005 (14), who found that depression was not a significant problem in transwomen treated with GnRH analogs."

European Journal of Endocrinology (2011) 164 635–642

"Depressive mood changes have been reported in cyproterone acetate use"

Basson RJ. Towards optimal hormonal treatment of male to female gender identity disorder. J Sex Reprod Med 2001;1:45–51.

"a high incidence of depression with its associated increased risk of suicide, for which persons with GID are already at increased risk, is reported by Asscheman et al (7) who routinely use CPA."

Metabolism. 1989 Sep;38(9):869-73.

« Combined treatment with estrogen and cyproterone acetate in 303 male-to-female transsexuals was associated with (...)depressive mood changes (15-fold)"

Acta Endocrinol (Copenh). 1979 Jul;91(3):545-52.

« One daily dose of either * cyproterone acetate (CA) was administered to 2 groups of 4 fertile men for 6 months."

"Three subjects who began the study were withdrawn because of depressive mood changes (2) and weakness combined with dizziness (1)."

I'm on Estradiol and Spironolactone, as well as Finasteride.  There is no doubt to me that it has improved my mood.  Prior to HRT...  my mind was beginning to wonder and I was losing motivation to pursue my goals and interests.  I felt like there was no point to move forward because I was going to be unhappy anyways.

Now, I still have concerns about my future social life, but I feel way better compared to before and motivated to move forward.  I'm going to achieve my goals and try interesting things.  I'm generally excited, and I feel very happy.

Quote from: Dena on May 06, 2016, 05:22:52 PM
I took a look at your posting history and it indicates you might be self medicating. Besides the danger of it, the problem is your testosterone levels aren't being checked. You need enough of the blocker to drive the testosterone levels into the feminine range in order to feel the benefit from HRT but yet, overdosing on blocker can be serious as well.

Without the numbers that a blood test would provide, much of what we would suggest would be guess work. I suggest you consider being evaluated so you can receive the proper mix of drugs to give HRT a fair evaluation.

I make no mistery of that. I started taking CA without medical supervision (I'm quite non-binary, I look masculine, and no doctor would have ever prescribed it to me), but I went to see an endocrinologist to start the HRT. I did blood tests, my T was 2,24 ng/ml (after 4-5 months of CA).

Quote from: Deathmental on May 07, 2016, 07:14:56 AM
I make no mistery of that. I started taking CA without medical supervision (I'm quite non-binary, I look masculine, and no doctor would have ever prescribed it to me), but I went to see an endocrinologist to start the HRT. I did blood tests, my T was 2,24 ng/ml (after 4-5 months of CA).

Equal to 224 ng/dl, in the lower end of the male range but higher than female range (8-90). CPA also blocks T.

Funny you mention this experience. We recently had this post:

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,208968.0.html

I would talk to your endo about it. That is part of why they are there. To safely prescribe and adjust as needed.

With warmth,

Joanna

Quote from: Lady_Oracle on May 06, 2016, 03:33:17 PM
Yep I was one of those people  I was on medroxy for the first 6 months and things got worst, things didnt get truly better until I switched to prometrium

I take bio-identical estradiol valerate, bioidentical prometrium or micronized progesterone depending on what country I am travelling in, and spiro. Great powerful combination.

I feel that doctors who prescribe androcur, provera, premarin, or other synthetic non-bio-identitical hormones for their trans female clients are not only doing their clients a grave disservice, they are putting their clients at significant health risk from clinically-proven dangerous side effects. This info is readily available. This is 2016 after all, not 1996. In this thread some other posters have pointed out some of the dangerous side effects of androcur.

Quote from: Lady_Oracle on May 06, 2016, 03:28:09 PM
P balances out the E fluctuations that cause the mood swings/irritability. I've suffered from clinical depression since I was a teen. It didn't get worst when I started hrt, it improved by a lot. I started on a regimen that included E, P and an AA. Idk I feel like you're probably not suppressing your T which is why you're still experiencing depression in the way you're describing. The T can be suppressed and you can still keep your libido if thats what you're worried about.

Good comments.

Quote from: Deathmental on May 07, 2016, 07:14:56 AM
I make no mistery of that. I started taking CA without medical supervision (I'm quite non-binary, I look masculine, and no doctor would have ever prescribed it to me), but I went to see an endocrinologist to start the HRT. I did blood tests, my T was 2,24 ng/ml (after 4-5 months of CA).

I'm 6' and quite muscular, passing isn't even vaguely on my horizon, had no trouble getting prescribed for estradiol; talked to my PCP describing my therapy and disphoria, there was a bit of a wait to see an endocrinologist but once I did, had script that day.

Quote from: JenniferLopezgomez on May 09, 2016, 07:55:45 PM
I feel that doctors who prescribe androcur, provera, premarin, or other synthetic non-bio-identitical hormones for their trans female clients are not only doing their clients a grave disservice, they are putting their clients at significant health risk from clinically-proven dangerous side effects. This info is readily available. This is 2016 after all, not 1996.

+1.

Quote from: KayXo on May 11, 2016, 06:21:04 PM
+1.

Thanks honey. Some people think that anything ANY doctor says is "Absolute Truth" but this is frequently not the case.  So very many of my trans female friends have had to educate their very own doctor(s) about many aspects of trans meds. I asked one Latin doctor from Mexico one time, some time back, if he received ANY training at all in ANY transgender med issues in many years of med school. He said DEFINITELY NOT. And he has years of extra specialiist training since he is a cardiologist. I hear this is frequently the case in English-speaking countries -- so very many of my American and British trans friends have told me their family doctor or GP knew nothing, or next to nothing, about female HRT meds until my trans friends educated them with certain correct medical information all doctors SHOULD know, but don't know. Sad.

I'm with the majority of women here I become happier after getting some estrogen in me. I really am looking forward to injections because the estrogen high I'd get from such an immediate increase a little after injecting. I get a weird overwhelming feeling of calm just by dissolving 4mg deep in my (ahem) 'body' at once... too embarrassed to speak of 'how' I take it though lol! But it 'really' works good.

Estrogen is essential. One doesn't feel right without it. But a bit better budget has allowed me to afford taking Progesterone every day again since January and wow what a mood difference for me!!! It is kinda expensive-- depending on what country I am in progesterone usually costs me more than estrogen and spiro combined. But wow the financial sacrifice is so very well worth it for how great and how right it makes me feel.

Nursing mothers have their bodies flooded with progesterone while pregnant and/or lactating it is nature's true hormone for wonderful feminine bliss.

Progesterone is well-known medically to frequently induce mild euphoria and I absolutely concur with this. Wow!

It makes me kinda sleepy and I frequently have to sleep for a bit (or overnight) after I take it.

I always take a bio-identical form of it that varies by country, normally either Prometrium or Micronized Progesterone. These have virtually no negative side effects BUT be sure to have tests and ask your doctor about especially your liver condition if you are or want to take Progesterone. Not all doctors will prescribe Progesterone foryou but a large number of doctors WILL prescribe it for you.

My boobs have started growing again since my budget has allowed me to start taking it again. <giggles >

Avoid Provera or other synthetic forms of Progesterone as synthetics have many dangerous physical risks and can affect your moods VERY negatively and it is well-documented that Provera can induce significant depression. If your doctor is prescribing Provera for you I feel that he/she hasn;t kept up with medical journals in the last 10 years and you might have to educate your doctor to prevent Provera from causing significant depression or even severe clinical depression in you. Stick with the much safer bio-identicals such as Prometrium or Micronized Progesterone, get liver tests fro your doctor and.or lab regularly, and enjoy some nice moods and happy feminine feelings.
Progesterone is my favorite of the 3 medical HRT hormones I take every day.

Hugs Jennifer

After a lifetime of suffering with depression, E patches have made a world of difference. It's honestly like night and day, especially now that (I think) we have the dosage dialed in. My doc has started me on P just recently (6 weeks ago), and I'm guessing it's the non-bioidentical version. I haven't noticed any negative mood issues so far with it, but after reading this I'm going to be looking into the costs of switching over to the micronized version, see if I can afford it. Thank you.

I am new to the site so I might have post a subject in the wrong place So I will try here I am under a doctor and I take estradiol and I am doing great with it so far But I for got to ask the doctor last week how long tell my "junk" starts to shrink the faster the better as far as a feel But I do know it takes time just like it did with my breast can anyone give me so feed back on my question thks