I remember not liking myself as a kid and not knowing why,  but I never thought about my gender, it wasn't really a thing for me until puberty. If we're following gender stereotypes, I was feminine and played with typical "girl toys" but that doesn't make you a cisgender girl, does it? (My dad thinks so)

Basically, my dad believes I'm not transgender because of my childhood, and the reason I want to be a boy is because I grew up with only a father and because female puberty was hard?

Isn't puberty hard for everyone? But do cisgender girls cry over how much they want a male body during it? I wouldn't think so?

I have a belief that dysphoria is like a retrovirus that can erupt at any time for whatever reason. It just waits and hides until it springs into action. That's why there is such a diversity among transgender people as to when they become aware of it. In my case it sprouted when I was 4 and in other cases it happens in the 30's and beyond.

Of course not . It's one of the most common misconceptions and stereotypes of being trans. Like Stephanie said it can happen anytime. Many cis men liked girly feminine things as a child; which doesn't or didn't make them trans women. It's no different for trans men. Many people grow up with a single parent family yet many grow up to be cis with only a small minority turning out trans because it's a not so common birth defect. Additionally it's been proven that gender is innate and not something you can be socialised to become. Cis people don't spend hours agonising over their assigned gender; only trans people do that.

Growing up I enjoyed some feminine things and still enjoy being feminine today. It doesn't make me any less trans or any less of a man. I also grew up with just a dad and found puberty hard. Which I understand women did too; but women don't wish their chests remain flat and for people to stop referring to them as a girl.

Is there a therapist you can speak too? Or you could send your dad some helpful links. Hope this helps and things improve

No, it most definitely is not always present in childhood. I actually talked to my therapist about this and she said it's less common before puberty than the media and other people lead us to think. It does happen, certainly, but it's just not as prevalent.

As for my own personal experience, I showed zero signs of it growing up. As a little kid I was the girliest girl to ever girl. I would only eat off of pink plates, skirts that twirled were the best things ever, barbies were my main toys. Meanwhile there was my sister who preferred GI Joes, cried that they didn't make Ninja Turtle underwear for girls, and stole our mom's makeup to make war paint while she battled with the neighbor boy over the property line.

It wasn't until I hit puberty that I started to feel not right in my body. To the point that I thought something "down there" was malformed and I had no idea why I thought this or how to ask about it.

For some people it doesn't manifest until even later.

This might help understand:

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,208438.msg1847661.html#msg1847661

And this might help explain:

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,208438.msg1847638.html#msg1847638

http://www.acceptingdad.com/2013/08/05/to-the-unicorns-dad/


Quite a few people try to fulfill gender roles until they find out its not them.

Being transgender has biological connections, its explained in the second link.
So its nobodys fault, and its simply a way people are.

You might look for an experienced gender therapist to help you find out what you want and to help explain.
There are also online therapists:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,187135.0.html

And questioning gender can be a sign in itself.
Cis people usually do not do this.


hugs

Quote from: tyler_c on May 06, 2016, 02:11:23 PM
I remember not liking myself as a kid and not knowing why,

Me too

Quotebut I never thought about my gender, it wasn't really a thing for me until puberty.

same here. I didn't have brothers (well I did have younger brothers but I never saw them; they were half brothers and not in my immediate family) but if I had, I wonder if my dysphoria would have increased if I'd actually seen that some people have penises. In fact no, I'm sure things would have clicked sooner if I'd been aware of that because to me vaginas felt like there was just "nothing there", or something "should have been there." But without being able to compare to another human being who did have something there, the process of realizing there was something wrong and that not all people were like me down there would probably have been sped up.

QuoteIf we're following gender stereotypes, I was feminine and played with typical "girl toys" but that doesn't make you a cisgender girl, does it? (My dad thinks so)

I played with both boys and girls toys. I'm not sure I was playing with them in the right way - I did try to saw Barbie's legs off... but, well no, what you play with isn't necessarily indicative of identity. If you weren't given boys toys to make a choice from either, you'd just play with whatever you had, right?

QuoteBasically, my dad believes I'm not transgender because of my childhood, and the reason I want to be a boy is because I grew up with only a father and because female puberty was hard?

There's no link between daughters and single fathers and trans issues, far as I know.

QuoteIsn't puberty hard for everyone? But do cisgender girls cry over how much they want a male body during it? I wouldn't think so?

Exactly. They don't. Quite the opposite, they seem to fret over wanting female bodies and perfecting their female bodies. never, ever heard a cis girl talk about how much she wanted to cut her boobs off, or tie them down, etc. Trans people on the other hand...

I was a "girlie girl" as a child, when I was maybe 10 or so I cut my hair short and presented as a "tom boy" but still loved my "girlie" stuff. I didn't realize I was trans until I started puberty, many transmen I have talked to have the same experience. I think it because puberty is when your body starts to developer both physically and hormonally. (you get boobs, periods, and your hormones skyrockets and its like "whoa something is wrong here)

As a child, I always knew something was off about me, and so did my parents. I lived and breathed androgyny (I didn't even know what it was back then), I played with barbies and hot wheels, things like that. There was still just something wrong about me. They figured I was going through my "tomboy phase" and I'd outgrow it once I got older. I really didn't care about my gender back then.

I hit puberty at age 10. That's when my life went downhill and I really began to care. I knew something was definitely wrong with my body, but I didn't know exactly what it was. I was diagnosed with Generalized Anxiety Disorder and depression. It was a very hard time in my life. I remember the numerous amounts of therapists I had, all of the medicines and such. At the time, I thought I had issues because I started going to a new and large school and didn't have anybody I knew in my class. Looking back on it now, that could have been a contributing issue, but I think the main reason I had such an awful time was because my brain was so traumatized by the female puberty that I didn't know how to react.

Before I knew I was trans, I was always told "The new changes are scary! You'll get used to it." and "You'll learn to love your boobs and curves eventually!" "Every girl hates their body at first!"

I remember constantly feeling the need to hide my breasts, and telling myself I'd get a breast reduction once I was old enough. I was dumbfounded as to how a woman could confidently wear a revealing shirt and not think twice about it. All of the shirts I wore showed absolutely no skin on my chest, which would constantly frustrate my mother, because most shirts in the women's section had v-necks, and "So what if some if only a little of your boobs show? It's not that big of a deal! Boys can handle themselves!"

To make a long story short, I ended up inheriting most of my shirts from my older brothers. 

As puberty progressed, I didn't outgrow my tomboy phase. In fact, I became more masculine. I believe the reason for this is because as my body became more feminine, I tried to be more masculine to get rid of it. I hardly have a lick of femininity in me now. I like colorful things and little animals, but that's pretty much the end of my feminine side. I'm sure I'll become more feminine once I transition, but for now, I'm not.

So, is dysphoria always present in childhood? I don't think so. I'd probably be surprised if you said you didn't experience any, but if you didn't experience any dysphoria by puberty, I'd be really surprised.

 

It was present for me... although not so much as sadness (before puberty) as a thrill in being identified as a boy and doing masculine things... though I deeply resented being asked to do tasks that I perceived as feminine.
The body dysphoria started as soon as puberty hit. I think puberty is hard for everyone but for me it was difficult in a different way from my cis gendered friends.

Sent from my SM-G870W using Tapatalk

I was girly to a degree. I loved pink for years, and I liked Barbie dolls despite not playing with them often (I preferred stuffed animals), I liked pretty jewelry and colorful precious stones. But I also hated make-up, clothes shopping was a form of cruel and unusual punishment, and I never liked my nails painted for an extended period of time.

I don't think i had it, but I wasn't very self aware at all. I did some of the stereotypical 'girl' things as a child, but I really don't think I thought about or experienced gender at all pre-puberty. I think i just did what the other kids were doing - girls and boys - if i interacted with them, and when i was on my own i was mostly focused on things that people would consider 'neutral', like toy animals, drawing.

It also struck me recently that though the majority of my friends were girls, they were what people would have called 'tomboys', and we all had brothers, and played with them as well. I just don't think a lot of people of my generation had highly gendered childhoods in the UK - in the sense of outside forces like parents trying to impose gender roles.

Quote from: tyler_c on May 06, 2016, 02:11:23 PM
I remember not liking myself as a kid and not knowing why,  but I never thought about my gender, it wasn't really a thing for me until puberty. If we're following gender stereotypes, I was feminine and played with typical "girl toys" but that doesn't make you a cisgender girl, does it? (My dad thinks so)

Basically, my dad believes I'm not transgender because of my childhood, and the reason I want to be a boy is because I grew up with only a father and because female puberty was hard?

No, lack of dysphoria as a child is not evidence that you aren't really trans.  My mum was still using lines like that until I asked her what it would take for her to consider transitioning into a man. That was the first time she realized she even had a gender identity! And that's because: cis people don't question their gender. Not on the level we do. The fact that you're questioning it at all is strong evidence there's something going on there.

I asked her if she thought she was physically capable of "confusing" herself into thinking she wanted to transition to a different gender. And I won another victory for common sense :3

On the subject of single parenting, I had the reverse. I've lived in an all female household since I was 7 - my mum and my sister. And the line people use on me?

"I think you only think you're trans because you grew up without a strong male influence. You don't understand what it means to be a man."

Or more creatively:

"You know this whole trans thing? This trans thing, yeah. Have you considered you might just be trying to become the father you lost?"

Right, because it's easier to change my gender than it is to face up to my emotions. People logic =_=

My (male) best friend moved away a year after that and from then I had exclusively female friends, went to an all girls school, played with dolls (though I used them to enact battle scenes and used to draw blood all over their clothes), begged my mum to buy me a sparkly pink dress every time we went to this one shop (sequins, I love them so) - the list is endless, really. And none of that turned me into a cis girl.

Gender is innate. Gender expression doesn't have to match up for your identity to be valid, real, and impossible to deny. Society tells us dolls are for girls - our biology does not. And society is dumb.

One of the reasons dysphoria may not manifest early in childhood may simply be because some children are less aware of the social order out there than others, and/or less aware of their own bodies. I know I was not very knowing of the world outside of my immediate family until much older - I lived in a rough part of town so my parents never let me outside without them, until I was at least 7 years old, so I didn't mix with people out there until 8yrs and older besides the kids in kindergarten school. And it showed - my first day of school felt like being abandoned in a horrific place; I didn't immediately take to the kids there and was suspicious of all of them. It took a long time for me to even allow myself to be aware of them properly. To me they were just "other people" whom I did not want to be near anyway, so I just tolerated my 6 hours with them per day and ignored them for the most part.

My parents placed no gender roles on me and allowed me to play with whatever toys I wanted. I was sometimes bought "girl" toys by peripheral relatives, including a Barbie bus but I recall playing with the bus far more than the barbie. And asking for dinosaurs and robots and model kits. I remember finding dolls boring. I did not know what I was supposed to "do" with them. Holding them and dressing them and pretending like they were babies or children just did not occur to me to do.

I wasn't hugely dysphoric as a child, but I was exceptionally headstrong and my parents allowed me free expression. I was also interested in specific things and no so much the wider world or other people's ideas. If I had felt oppressed by them or the immediate social conditions I might have felt dysphoria earlier than I did. Dysphoria about roles and gender therefore reared its ugly head during puberty and when people started asking me out. I actually became angry at the latter, and was short with people who did. I felt some limited attraction to people but could not picture myself with them, so I never acted on them. Not until much later when I'd tried to accept I was going to be stuck in a female body. Which of course came back to bite me in the ass, since dysphoria does not like to "go gentle into that good night". If had known how persistent dysphoria is, I wouldn't have taken that tack or those decisions.

I think how aware we are of things definitely has something to do with it. I've never spent much time in front of mirrors or being all that interested in my own body. Without being properly aware of boys' anatomy, at that age I think I felt my own body was fairly male and definitely not like my mothers, which I had seen. When mine started growing in the 'wrong' places and not growing where I thought it should, I realized I had a serious problem. Boys and girls' bodies look more similar than different at a young age, so it presented much less of a problem to me then than when it started differentiating and starting to look like my mother's. At which point, I freaked.

For me I know I thought I was a girl as a kid. The evidence was there and its what people told me.

I didnt think much about gender as a kid as well, and mostly played with stuffed animals and liked to draw things. I was given girl toys when I was very very young but gravitated away from that. When I began to become concious of gender I knew I immediately hated barbies and dolls and dresses and makeup and lotion,  girly tv shows and the like.

I did most often try to differentiate myself from the female pack,I was a girl but I wasnt, I was different, and I tried to take pride in that fact. That earned me the label tomboy.

Eventually as puberty came things felt weird, but as per the usual I felt I had to accept it because it is what it is and move on. Same as childhood being a girl.

I learned I was trans when I learned what a transgender was, I was cautious at first because I know resistance of gender roles doesnt make one trans, and I didnt want to harm the ones who were actually trans by being 'a fake trans person'. In the end though the feelings stuck, I found pleasure in being a 'he', and eventually I gravitated towards acceptinf my masculinity.



So overall, no, I think there might be some or nothing present at childhood, but really gender becomes a factor at or after puberty it seems

Quote from: T.K.G.W. on May 07, 2016, 12:19:49 PM
I think how aware we are of things definitely has something to do with it. I've never spent much time in front of mirrors or being all that interested in my own body. Without being properly aware of boys' anatomy, at that age I think I felt my own body was fairly male and definitely not like my mothers, which I had seen. When mine started growing in the 'wrong' places and not growing where I thought it should, I realized I had a serious problem. Boys and girls' bodies look more similar than different at a young age, so it presented much less of a problem to me then than when it started differentiating and starting to look like my mother's. At which point, I freaked.

The lack of awareness of my body at a young age is astonishing when I look back. And being home schooled isolated me from societal constructs. I just had fun, my body wasn't on my mind.

When puberty began its first stages at 11-12, it was... difficult, to put it simply. My dad keeps telling me that if I had a mother to talk to about the changes I wouldn't feel this way. (Feel like a boy)
But I did talk to women online, and none of their advice worked. This one woman told me to look at other women and realize how normal the changes were, but all I saw was that women are comfortable being women. And to me at the time, it was baffling because I felt like I was trying to fit into a box I couldn't fit into.
So then I started thinking "Why can't I feel that way, why am I different?"
And before I even knew what transgender meant, (it's so interesting to think back on my past thoughts) I asked myself "maybe I'm a boy?" I thought that that was why I couldn't comprehend having a female body. (I thought my lower area was going to develop like a cisgender boy's)

And after going through all that. I'm still told by my dad that I'm not transgender because "male influences" confused me.

I never even considered I was trans till I was 20! My childhood was middle ground between femininity and masculinity

I've identified as trans since I was 11, and I feel as if my signs didn't start to show until I was 6/7. Everyone's different, just because you were happier with your gender when you were younger doesn't make you any less trans than someone who's identified as trans since they were much younger.

I knew I was trans around age 11 although I didn't know the word until I was 15.  Looking back there were some signs earlier than that but I didn't have a clear understanding of gender differences until I was 11.


Sapere Aude

Quote from: tyler_c on May 08, 2016, 09:31:43 PM

And after going through all that. I'm still told by my dad that I'm not transgender because "male influences" confused me.

If anyone in that situation is more expert on what it is to be transgender and to be you, it is you, not your dad.

Children are usually less subject to the concerns of both sexuality and the purpose of their genitals at young ages, and also children are not subject to the full social expectations of adults. As soon as puberty and adulthood hit us, so does the realization, often enough, that we are not like the others, that the stuff that is growing due to sex hormones is not growing the way it should be to us, that the roles we are expected to fill are not the right shape. Some kids realize very early in life, but I would hazard a guess that such kids were more likely to be more bodily/sexually aware, or socially aware, or subjected to roles and gender-based regulation than those who do not realize so early. I don't know, because I haven't seen specific study results on this, but with puberty/onset of adult roles being a strong realization point so often mentioned by trans people, I'm tempted to think it. Then there's those who realize many years later in life who often say they always "knew" or "suspected" but did not act because they felt it was a phase they would grow out of, or tried to bury it, or as in my case, just felt there was no understanding and no options at a younger age and just thought they had to put up with being the wrong gender for life.