Hi folks,

Looking ahead, and propelled by issues to with my AA regime, I'm thinking strongly of a 2-phase GRS process. First, orchiectomy which I'd like done straightaway. (I have issues with spiro so I'd like the testicles whipped out!).

But, second, I'm also thinking of having a cosmetic vagina rather than a fully-functional one i.e. not having full vaginoplasty. I'm very interested in comments on this although please pretty please hold back on the 'you're not a real woman.' Whilst vital for some, I don't really buy into the 'this organ makes you a woman.' For me, gender's broader than reductionist 'this or that piece of the body' so I'm cool on that front. As I say, that's just my opinion so please respect just as I very much do those who don't take my view.

No, my questions surround the actual procedure, after-care benefits, costs etc. So here's why I'm interested in it as opposed to the full works:

1. Visually it's the same so there are no issues in a female changing room
2. It's less invasive surgery
3. It's much much less post-operative care. I honestly can't see myself doing dilations because
4. When I want a penis I know exactly where I like it. Sorry but there's no other way to put that point. The prostate is a remarkable thing
5. Much cheaper: presumably?!

But my biggest question is this. Does a cosmetic vagina still create a clitoris i.e. some sort of stimulation from what was once the penis? I'm intrigued on this point

You need to question the surgeon who will preform the procedure but there is no reason why the glans of the penis can't be used to make a clitoris just as in the vaginal surgery. The thing to watch out for is the surgery where the penis is removed as that surgery will result in a loss of sensation.

My personal choice for a vagina is because even today my sexuality is undefined and I wanted the option should I ever desire a relationship with a male. If you feel you will never desire a vagina, that would be the easy way to go as it would eliminate the many hours you need to spend dilating.

Thanks so much Dena. That's a great point. It's possible if the cost isn't too high, assuming the GiC referral would take ages, that I might go straight for this form of GRS i.e. not bother with an orchie first. It's partly about money but if it's much cheaper than a full vaginoplasty I might be in a position to have it done c. 3 or 4 months from now out here in Thailand. I 'think' Dr Chet will perform this form of GRS.

I was strongly considering cosmetic for most of the same reasons you've listed. However I've decided against that for reasons somewhat similar to Dena. While I am mostly asexual at the moment I put that down to having the wrong equipment. I can't presume to know what my sexuality will be like post op, and I intend to pursue intimate relationships afterwards. For that reason alone I don't want to find myself with a sexually non functional vag.

Depending on what works for you, some doctors will apply the cost of the orchie to the gender surgery so your total cost at completion of the gender surgery would only be for the surgery. I suspect the total cost wouldn't be that much less for the surgery but the recovery time would be less saving some money there. The external work they do now days is so much better than what I have the the bulk of the surgical time must be spent on the outside and vaginal surgery is a smaller part of the procedure. Again, the surgeon will give you a better idea about this than I can.

Thanks Dena: that's great.

That's really interesting about not presuming on one's sexuality post-op Grace. I hadn't thought of that. What I would say is that I don't intend pursuing intimate relationships post op but maybe that will change.

It's still a long way off but I am thinking about the partial or cosmetic vaginoplasty for a few reasons.

1.  I'll be 68 before I'm eligible for GRS so recovery would be faster and easier.
2.  Cost would be less so I understand.
3.  I'm not going to be out looking for men because a) I'm not interested b) Miss Dee is NOT the sharing type.

Now if Medicare and Insurance are paying for it, that might sway the decision.

I'd not personally go for the cosmetic option, partly because I don't want to, but also just in case I changed my mind. I've noticed as I progress along this path my feelings about certain things seem to evolve, and I'm not really sure what I feel about anything in the future.

Having said that none of the disadvantages of the full GRS really bother me.

Quote from: AnonyMs on May 16, 2016, 06:46:17 AM
I'd not personally go for the cosmetic option, partly because I don't want to, but also just in case I changed my mind. I've noticed as I progress along this path my feelings about certain things seem to evolve, and I'm not really sure what I feel about anything in the future.

Having said that none of the disadvantages of the full GRS really bother me.

I totally agree with you. The state of mind changes over time so do the desires. It is very possible that you may change along your path and desire a vagina in the future. I know of lesbians becoming str8 along the path, which is not uncommon. But I also agree that you don't need a vaginal tunnel to be a woman. You don't even need cosmetic vagina to be one.

I have a friend who ended up with horrendous dysphoria after she was talked into "full" GRS, so I 100% support anyone correcting their body in the way that's best for them.

With that said, Brassard's paperwork clarified that someone who went that route got *everything* the standard GRS provided, except that the vaginal canal was replaced by a 1" deep "dimple." (The slight indentation is apparently required to make the rest of the cosmetics looks right.) So he does vulva, clitoris, accurate aesthetics, fully sexually functional, the whole thing except no full vagina. I hope that helps.

I share your thinking about this option Richenda and have a local friend about my age going for it now.  I recently had my orchi and am not totally dysphoric about my penis but recognize what others have posted about possible regrets.  That is one reason I was and remain in no hurry to go further.  There is also the phenomena of wanting more than we once thought.  I also share your feelings about where I want a man in my life but that is no big deal either as I am currently monogamous.

The dynamic and dramatic changes in insurance coverage certainly play a part in our considerations here in the US.  I hope you and others that take this route will stick around to share more about your results.

Hey,

    There's a lot of wisdom in what the other ladies are saying; your sexuality may change post op.   However I don't know if anyone else addressed your other reason being the prostate is your choice of penetrative stimulation. From all the anecdotal evidence I've read on this board, and from my understanding of the new anatomy, you'll get just as much prostate sensation, if not more so, from neo-vaginal stimulation. The prostate is right next to the new vaginal vault. You'll also get stimulation from left over erectile tissue inside, close to the prostate.

    Your best reasons are that's it's less invasive and the post-op care is much easier. There's  probably less of a chance (or no chance) of a fistula but that's rare anyways with a reputable surgeon. Dilation I hear is a chore but that gets easier over time and eventually sex can become your form of dilation don't quote me on that haha it's such a personal decision.

Fabulous replies ladies: thank you. There's so much wisdom in all these responses. I think I'm pretty much heading this way but I do take the very good point about subsequent shifts in sexuality. For practical reasons I can't have the surgery before the autumn (if private) and it will be longer than that if it's under the NHS UK so there is still time to consider. But, yes, all things considered I'm pretty sure it's how I want to go with it.

By the way, I do breast pump regularly every day so I guess the dilation isn't such a factor. It's really for the other reasons cited.

p.s. I love the point about the prostate being behind the new clitoris. Haha sounds awesome 

If you don't mind my asking as you're in the UK are you looking at getting the orchi and cosmetic GRS (also seeking sensate clitoris) privately?

I have the same intentions surgically but anticipate the NHS side being list after list for goodness knows how many years. If you are following the private route do you have any estimates on costs and where these surgeries can be carried out privately.

Any extra hoops (assuming still psych for GRS and maybe for the orchi depending on surgeon) and their solutions (private shrink worth considering?) would be most welcome as I'm having a lot of trouble finding UK specific information for this.

Already on Sandyford list but still 6 months until I get to "Hello" let alone anything genuinely useful.

Love the NHS but the lists are brutal.

At least hormones are easy and legal to import here but surgery is proving a lot more difficult to source.

Hi Jerrica,

I know what you mean re. UK waiting lists. I'm in the GiC system but reckon it's going to be more than two years before I could hope for GRS, maybe a lot more than that.

I've actually moved to Thailand now. I was out here on and off for a few years but in February it became more permanent. A friend of mine has lent me the money for the orchiectomy so I'm going with Dr Preecha's PAI team for that next month with a view to full GRS later. I looked into costs out here and they're probably a little higher because the surgeons prefer to do it under general anaesthetic. Dr Chet quoted $2000 and PAI $2700. But I personally prefer the sound of PAI's after care etc.

This isn't a very helpful response in terms of the UK I'm afraid

By the way, as Grace, BeverlyAnn, AnonyMs, Ruby and Reborn suggested above might happen, I'm already thinking I want a full vagina not just cosmetic one. That didn't take long

x

Quote from: Jerrica on June 16, 2016, 03:37:02 AM
Love the NHS but the lists are brutal.

At least hormones are easy and legal to import here but surgery is proving a lot more difficult to source.

If you've the money and inclination you can skip literally everything and get a really high quality SRS in Thailand. Waiting lists and quite how much you can skip do vary a bit.

Hi Richenda;
I have a girlfriend in the UK that has had the cosmetic operation (on the NHS) but also Breast Augmentation. She is still married and only interested in staying with her wife.

Aesthetically you would need to do a gynaecological examination to see any different, because she has everything that looks perfectly in place, except her vaginal opening is very shallow, but she has full clitoral sensation and her labia minor, labia majora, vulva and clitoral hood appear 100% female.

She did consider full GRS, but as she was only interested  sexually in remaining with her wife and that  foreplay was always a big part of their sexual experience, both her and her wife have been very happy together. Certainly for me it something I am also considering this as after 3.5  years, on HRT, I remain only interested in relationships with other women in fact over the years my Testosterone fed obsession  for masturbation is thankfully long gone and whilst before I was always able to satisfy all of my previous female partners orally and with  tremendous caressing and kissing foreplay them her far better orally than I ever did with regular sex. In fact for me many of my previous partners said  their oral orgasms and clitoral orgasms  with me were out of this world .

Although interestingly sometimes these days after 3.5 years of HRT as I make love with female partners with silky soft skin together and gently caressing foreplay giving her time to bring herself to the point of orgasm,  I often find that I too experience the get the whole body orgasm from my female partners, as they caress my breasts, arms, legs and inner thighs, but at least without the male release (i have very low T) and am left panting and body shuddering as well being left tingling all over.

In fact as an aside I always previously (before transitioning) loved caressing  and kissing  my female partners silky soft skin which was always a turn on for me, but I always wondered what it would be like Girl on Girl  both with silky soft skin together. Now I too have my skin all over just as silky soft (especially my breasts and inner thighs).  I just need the female equipment to go with it to also have the clitoral orgasm.

Judith

Am I supposed to be getting turned on Judith? Haha: that's beautifully written if I may say so.

I love women, not just to admire but in the ways you describe. Your description seems to match a surprising (to me) number of MtF's. But maybe it's not that surprising: we spend so long admiring the female form and wanting to be that. And I know lots of cis women who are the same about their own gender.

Thanks for sharing. I didn't mean the opening sentence to be trite. It can get a bit serious on here sometimes and I just thought: heck, you're turning me on with this description x

Thank you all for your replies. If I had the money I'd defo go the Thailand route.

Cosmetic I'm set on and don't expect to change my mind as I too am interested only in my wife and neither of us are interested in penetrative sex. For now I abstain completely from seeking sexual gratification for myself but do love to satisfy my wife orally which works out well for us both.

Orchi is high on my list for peace of mind as to me they could literally kill me if my meds were ever interrupted. Rightly or wrongly I'll feel better once they're gone so that's kinda top of my surgery list.

Saw a ball park figure of a couple of grand online which would be acceptable.

Expect even cosmetic GRS to cost a heck of a lot more but first things first I guess.