Quote from: PrincessButtercup on May 01, 2016, 01:36:25 AM
Yes, except I am failing miserably at letting it not control me. In fact I've slightly slipped back into hostile and angry. Not as much as before, but I'd still like to obliterate trans anything from my world and put it all back to normal.

I can understand that:) it gets to a point of acceptance or not:)
I am at full acceptance. I think of you often:) I understand where you are at:)

Quote from: jamiej on May 01, 2016, 02:29:20 AM
I can understand that:) it gets to a point of acceptance or not:)
I am at full acceptance. I think of you often:) I understand where you are at:)

i think about the only thing I will ever accept is that things will forever be abnormal. Tolerance is what I strive for. I will tolerate what I've agreed to, nothing more, because I will never accept it nor like it.

Quote from: PrincessButtercup on May 01, 2016, 11:25:56 AM
i think about the only thing I will ever accept is that things will forever be abnormal. Tolerance is what I strive for. I will tolerate what I've agreed to, nothing more, because I will never accept it nor like it.

Hi:)
That's completely fair, only you know what is OK by you:)
X

PrincessButtercup,

Reading what you've written hits so close to home. I feel the way you have expressed, which is that I have no interest whatsoever in women. You have it slightly (only minimally) better than me because your husband feels androgynous/non-binary. My boyfriend (he has said he's unsure of pronouns and won't ask me to change) of 6 years told me he wants androgyny, but it turns out he wants a female body that he can dress in masculine or feminine clothing. He doesn't want to be girly or frilly, but he does want a female body. He is unwilling to compromise, saying that he has to do this for his mental health and well-being.

I'm devastated. This all started a month ago with him saying he was non-binary, and then two weeks ago he admitted he wants to transition to a woman. It has been two weeks of torment so far.

I just want to thank you because your pain, your words, your reality -- they've rung true for me so far, and I'm heartbroken. There are so many encouraging people on this forum who urge that love is genderless, that two people can be together no matter what, but it's refreshing to know I'm not alone in disagreeing. Yes, I will always love him, but it may not be romantically.

So thank you. I wish both of us strength, whatever happens. I need so much support right now, and I'm already in therapy for other issues. My boyfriend keeps crying and apologizing about hurting me, saying he just wishes he could be normal. I, too, wish for a pill that would eradicate transgender thoughts, just giving people the body they'd be happiest with from the beginning. He'd either have been a cisgender male and we'd be perfectly fine, or he'd have the female body he's recently discovered he wants, and we never would have entered into a romantic relationship. I don't mean to hijack your thread with my own circumstances, but I'm glad you decided to post here and be blunt about your feelings.

Quote from: Black Winged Roses on May 08, 2016, 04:23:41 AM
PrincessButtercup,

Reading what you've written hits so close to home. I feel the way you have expressed, which is that I have no interest whatsoever in women. You have it slightly (only minimally) better than me because your husband feels androgynous/non-binary. My boyfriend (he has said he's unsure of pronouns and won't ask me to change) of 6 years told me he wants androgyny, but it turns out he wants a female body that he can dress in masculine or feminine clothing. He doesn't want to be girly or frilly, but he does want a female body. He is unwilling to compromise, saying that he has to do this for his mental health and well-being.

I'm devastated. This all started a month ago with him saying he was non-binary, and then two weeks ago he admitted he wants to transition to a woman. It has been two weeks of torment so far.

I just want to thank you because your pain, your words, your reality -- they've rung true for me so far, and I'm heartbroken. There are so many encouraging people on this forum who urge that love is genderless, that two people can be together no matter what, but it's refreshing to know I'm not alone in disagreeing. Yes, I will always love him, but it may not be romantically.

So thank you. I wish both of us strength, whatever happens. I need so much support right now, and I'm already in therapy for other issues. My boyfriend keeps crying and apologizing about hurting me, saying he just wishes he could be normal. I, too, wish for a pill that would eradicate transgender thoughts, just giving people the body they'd be happiest with from the beginning. He'd either have been a cisgender male and we'd be perfectly fine, or he'd have the female body he's recently discovered he wants, and we never would have entered into a romantic relationship. I don't mean to hijack your thread with my own circumstances, but I'm glad you decided to post here and be blunt about your feelings.

You are most certainly not hijacking anything. The very reason I post in this thread is so others will realize that there's nothing wrong with refusing to accept the 'genderless love' approach. For those that have, kudos for them, but for many of us that's not how we're wired and it doesn't make us selfish or bad people - in fact, I sort of feel like it makes us very honest people for admitting it.

I'm truly sorry that you've been dragged into this hellish nightmare. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. It just sucks for us.

I will PM you my email address. Feel free to use it anytime you need to vent and want to do so outside the spotlight of a forum post. Just know that there are many SO's who feel just like us.

Reading posts from other people reminds me that Im not alone either.  I just wish that my partner understood how much this affected me and didn't abandon me when I did not abandon them. I hope that we can all stay strong. 

Quote from: Black Winged Roses on May 08, 2016, 04:23:41 AM
PrincessButtercup,

Reading what you've written hits so close to home. I feel the way you have expressed, which is that I have no interest whatsoever in women. You have it slightly (only minimally) better than me because your husband feels androgynous/non-binary. My boyfriend (he has said he's unsure of pronouns and won't ask me to change) of 6 years told me he wants androgyny, but it turns out he wants a female body that he can dress in masculine or feminine clothing. He doesn't want to be girly or frilly, but he does want a female body. He is unwilling to compromise, saying that he has to do this for his mental health and well-being.

I'm devastated. This all started a month ago with him saying he was non-binary, and then two weeks ago he admitted he wants to transition to a woman. It has been two weeks of torment so far.

I just want to thank you because your pain, your words, your reality -- they've rung true for me so far, and I'm heartbroken. There are so many encouraging people on this forum who urge that love is genderless, that two people can be together no matter what, but it's refreshing to know I'm not alone in disagreeing. Yes, I will always love him, but it may not be romantically.

So thank you. I wish both of us strength, whatever happens. I need so much support right now, and I'm already in therapy for other issues. My boyfriend keeps crying and apologizing about hurting me, saying he just wishes he could be normal. I, too, wish for a pill that would eradicate transgender thoughts, just giving people the body they'd be happiest with from the beginning. He'd either have been a cisgender male and we'd be perfectly fine, or he'd have the female body he's recently discovered he wants, and we never would have entered into a romantic relationship. I don't mean to hijack your thread with my own circumstances, but I'm glad you decided to post here and be blunt about your feelings.

I am another one who does not accept that I need to stay with my husband as he transitions, no matter how slowly or quickly, simply because we are married and have been married for nearly 23 years.  Like you, I too am not attracted to females and my husband both says he accepts that and agrees with me that he knows I'm not attracted to females yet he still wants me to somehow come around to accepting him as a female and continue the relationship without anything else changing.  How is one supposed to cuddle up to a female body and touch bits one does not want to be there instead of the bits that should be there? He says simply put your arms lower and I'm like why should I?  If he gets what he wants out of going down this path am I not also entitled to get what I want?  Unfortunately he has always been selfish and narcissistic which is one major thing that annoys me about him.

My husband has always been a cross dresser and did explain it to me initially as hoping his parents were wrong at the age of 4 when they said he was a boy because he wanted to be a girl then.  That should have set off alarm bells in my head but sadly it didn't because I was naive enough to believe him when he said he could beat it/control it.  He wants a female body and it used to be so he would fit the clothes better but now he's starting to tell me it's not about the clothes but how you feel on the inside so I'm seeing that as some kind of desperate attempt to keep me by his side.  It has taken him many months to work out that it is all real and to see his own behaviour for what it is and accept that he truly is transgender while the rest of us around him were waiting for him to catch up as we could see it.

Our relationship has been described by us as two control freaks constantly battling for control although it's not always constant as we both only fight over controls we really want and let the other lead some of the time without complaint.  As a result of this our relationship has always been volatile but it was a lot better before we had kids than after. I ascribe some of that to his selfishness and not wanting to share me with kids because he thinks he should be more important to me than they are.  If you were able to listen to him having a conversation it's all about "me" with no room for anyone else as he always puts himself first without necessarily meaning to.

Black Winged Roses, I love your last paragraph as quoted above because we have been doing that too at times when our communication has been better as sometimes it still sucks a bit.  We cry together sometimes about how unfair it all is too so you are not alone there.  All I have promised him at the moment is that I will try one day at a time to keep communication open and talk to him about anything/everything as openly as possible.  That is hard though.

I have read the entire thread previously and remember thinking that I really wanted to pipe up and say something too about how your lives are similar to mine in some ways although I can't honestly remember what exactly I wanted to say.  I just want to show you that you have my support as well and I am grateful to have yours too .

Last week, after his therapy session, my husband told me that he and and his therapist discussed how he's actually been quite happy with where he's at and he definitely feels like he doesn't need anything more - at least for now. The 'for now' thing is what always lurks at the back of my mind and prevents me from enjoying the present. What if, in a few years, he decides that underwear, along with the occasional lingerie and nail polish isn't enough? What then? I don't want anything else and don't think I could even pretend to not be repulsed by it. Ah well, no one really knows what the future holds anyway. For now, I'm trying to work on being able to semi-enjoy the present and not making too many specific long term plans. Trying to repair the damage done is exhausting enough. I know I should be grateful that there's at least a glimmer of hope for some sort of semi-normal life, but honestly, I really wish I could erase the last 4+ months and remain oblivious to it all. He's a guy and identifies as such, I guess I'll just count that as a blessing and try to keep moving forward one day at a time. I know I'm coming out of this craptastic ordeal a lot better off than some of the spouses because I get to keep my husband instead of getting a wife I never wanted pushed on me, and for this I am truly grateful if for no other reason than I really don't need to add the stress of another divorce right now.

On a positive note, since he told me that he's content with how things are, I've at least been sleeping better. I'm down to only 3 Unisom instead of 4 or 5, and only need to add an Ambien to those once or twice a week instead of almost every night. You know you're life is in shambles when it takes 5 Unisom and a higher dose Ambien before you can fall asleep.

hoping for the best.

Hi PB,

Glad you and your husband seem to be in a reasonably good place right now with him not wanting to go any further with transitioning "for now".

Quote from: PrincessButtercup on May 16, 2016, 03:30:07 PM
The 'for now' thing is what always lurks at the back of my mind and prevents me from enjoying the present. What if, in a few years, he decides that underwear, along with the occasional lingerie and nail polish isn't enough? What then? I don't want anything else and don't think I could even pretend to not be repulsed by it.

Sadly I lived with that "for now" thing for quite a few years before it reared its ugly head again. My husband began to wear women's underwear more and more often until it became the only underwear he wears, and that was about ten years ago that he went full time in women's underwear. It was a sad day for me when I packed the men's underwear into bags to be donated to a local charity.

If your husband does change his current stance and begin to move further toward transitioning then you should not hide how you feel about it at all. Hopefully you and your husband are closely enough connected that you keep your lines of communication open no matter what happens, as my husband and I have gotten a lot better at communicating over the last few months than we ever were in the last 22 odd years. I do not hide my revulsion or amusement if that is what I feel or am thinking and he says he is grateful that I am being honest about how I feel.

Quote from: PrincessButtercup on May 16, 2016, 03:30:07 PM
Ah well, no one really knows what the future holds anyway. For now, I'm trying to work on being able to semi-enjoy the present and not making too many specific long term plans. Trying to repair the damage done is exhausting enough. I know I should be grateful that there's at least a glimmer of hope for some sort of semi-normal life, but honestly, I really wish I could erase the last 4+ months and remain oblivious to it all.

That's true that nobody knows what the future will hold and anything is possible.  I am at present just trying to get through from one day to the next without totally falling apart in some ways, and dealing with the gamut of emotions this rollercoaster ride is making me feel. I don't think it's possible to "repair the damage" as the relationship has changed forever now and will never go back to what it was. We must change and adapt ourselves to the changes in our relationships.

I too wish I could erase all of this transgender stuff too as it started with the clothes and has grown into so much more.
My husband now gets his nails done regularly in shellac and wears women's earrings every day. He has long hair that he loves and I believe is still in denial about me not wanting to be with a woman and being serious about wanting him to face the very real possibility for us of separation and divorce.  That won't be easy since neither of us have been through it before, but it remains at the forefront of my mind.  Even if I wanted to I worked out a long time ago that I could not take the obsession with women's clothes away from my husband without virtually destroying everything that makes him him.  It's a very sad situation I find myself in and I hope that you don't end up down this path too.

Love
Sandy

Quote from: Hazardus01 on May 17, 2016, 09:24:46 AM
Hi PB,

Glad you and your husband seem to be in a reasonably good place right now with him not wanting to go any further with transitioning "for now".

Sadly I lived with that "for now" thing for quite a few years before it reared its ugly head again. My husband began to wear women's underwear more and more often until it became the only underwear he wears, and that was about ten years ago that he went full time in women's underwear. It was a sad day for me when I packed the men's underwear into bags to be donated to a local charity.

I don't really care about the underwear, the only real drawback is that women's underwear costs more than men's. I know more than a few perfectly normal men who wear women's undies for varying reasons - they fit better, more comfortable, or they just prefer the fabric; so, that really doesn't have much effect on me.

Quote from: Hazardus01 on May 17, 2016, 09:24:46 AM
If your husband does change his current stance and begin to move further toward transitioning then you should not hide how you feel about it at all. Hopefully you and your husband are closely enough connected that you keep your lines of communication open no matter what happens, as my husband and I have gotten a lot better at communicating over the last few months than we ever were in the last 22 odd years. I do not hide my revulsion or amusement if that is what I feel or am thinking and he says he is grateful that I am being honest about how I feel.

Oh, no worries on me hiding how I feel or what I think. I'm known for many things, but sugar coating definitely isn't one of them. When I stood before friends and said "I do" it was to the question beginning with "Do you take this man..." and that's what I agreed to - a man. I've been divorced twice and at this point, I'm quite efficient at it. My 2nd one was finalized when I was 36. That was 10 years ago. I have no problem doing it again if I have to. I won't stay in a relationship I don't want to be in for anyone or any reason. Life's too short to have a completely sexless life and I don't want a platonic relationship with my spouse. I have friends for those relationships. It's either PIV sex or adios. That probably seems harsh to some, but that's how I roll.

Quote from: Hazardus01 on May 17, 2016, 09:24:46 AM
That's true that nobody knows what the future will hold and anything is possible.  I am at present just trying to get through from one day to the next without totally falling apart in some ways, and dealing with the gamut of emotions this rollercoaster ride is making me feel. I don't think it's possible to "repair the damage" as the relationship has changed forever now and will never go back to what it was. We must change and adapt ourselves to the changes in our relationships.

And that rollercoaster just sucks the energy from you. I noticed a couple of months ago that my eyes no longer shine when I smile. It's all too noticeable to those close to me that it's all forced. And I've gained a few pounds and that really annoys the crap out of me because I used to be really fat and I worked darn hard to shed that weight. I really resent that fact that I gained 10 lbs over this mess. All I can say is to hang in there and never stop looking out for you and your best interests. Always make your needs known and if they aren't being met on the most basic level, then it's time to decide whether or not you're going to walk away. Say it and mean it. That's what I did.
[/quote]

Quote from: Hazardus01 on May 17, 2016, 09:24:46 AM
I too wish I could erase all of this transgender stuff too as it started with the clothes and has grown into so much more.
My husband now gets his nails done regularly in shellac and wears women's earrings every day. He has long hair that he loves and I believe is still in denial about me not wanting to be with a woman and being serious about wanting him to face the very real possibility for us of separation and divorce.  That won't be easy since neither of us have been through it before, but it remains at the forefront of my mind.  Even if I wanted to I worked out a long time ago that I could not take the obsession with women's clothes away from my husband without virtually destroying everything that makes him him.  It's a very sad situation I find myself in and I hope that you don't end up down this path too.

Love
Sandy

If I do end up down that path, it won't be for very long. I will never make myself that miserable just to please someone else. While it might be unfair to ask the trans person to change what they want or think they need, it's also completely unfair to ask us to change as well. We married men for a reason. If we wanted to be with women, then we would've married a woman. It really is that black and white for me.

Stay strong and stay true to yourself!

It's been over a year since a nuclear bomb decimated my life, I guess it's time for a bit of an update. After being completely miserable for the entirety of 2016, I started off 2017 with a much more organized house, both physically and emotionally. 

After promising me that the shopping would cease, of course more things arrived 'because they were on sale' and 'was stuff he had wanted to get' when he was ordering clothes, lingerie, etc to the tune of several packages arriving every other week it seemed. Columbus Day we had several contractors in doing the year-end maintenance items on our new house. I took a break and went to the mailbox where a package of clothing was sitting just waiting to be collected. I gave it to him thinking it was a Halloween costume I knew he had ordered. When he didn't open it immediately, I asked if it was stuff I didn't want to know about. I knew the answer from the look on his face. That's when he gave me excuses. I took my wedding rings off that night and haven't put them back on sense. He broke his promise and I knew he was never intending to actually keep it. He never noticed until I finally pointed it out the day after our wedding anniversary. Four months later and those rings are still sitting untouched in my jewelry box. I no longer even miss the weight of them on my hand.

By Thanksgiving I couldn't stand going into our shared closet and would become overcome with a feeling of complete dread every morning and night because of the women's clothes he had hanging on his side. I constantly worried that friends would see them when he or I were showing them the house. I finally reached a breaking point. I went to the local hardware store and bought a couple of storage totes while he was gone for a week long business trip. I packed up all the shoes, dresses, and lingerie - so much lingerie... much more than I knew about. I stuffed it all into two totes and left them sitting in his home office. If he wanted to see them or interact with them, he could do it in the privacy of his office, far away from me. After about 6 weeks had passed, he moved them to the storage room where they're shoved in the back corner of a shelf. He never mentioned it.

A few days before our fifth anniversary another package arrived. It was badly torn and I knew he was expecting a jacket, so I opened it the rest of the way (didn't really take much). Inside was a man's jacket and 3 dresses. I was so angry my hands were shaking. I opened the door to his office and threw them at him. We exchanged a few words, I reminded him that he promised it wouldn't happen again. About 20 minutes later he tried to tell me that he ordered them for me. They're all his size, not mine. I have many dresses in our shared closet, it would not have taken super sleuthing to know my size. He's also bought me many things over the years, always getting my size correct. The offending items sat in his office for weeks. He finally moved them to the same shelf as the totes. At least he's stopped saying he got them for me.

On our anniversary he wanted to go out for a nice dinner to celebrate. I said I wasn't sure what I was supposed to be celebrating. I went anyway. He says I look at him as if I'm completely repulsed. I don't trust him. He's going to have to earn that back and it's not going to be a quick thing. Words will no longer suffice, it will take proven action. I can not be bought with gifts. I've told him that any more broken promises or transgressions and I'm gone.

I ended up gaining a total of 35 lbs from the hellish year known as 2016. I started greatly restricting my caloric intake in mid-January. I managed to drop 11 lbs in a month. I'm giving myself 400-600 calories a day, with a 1000 calorie day once a week. I should be back to my goal weight by the end of May. Last year was all about him, this year I'm focusing on me. It's what I have to do to survive and attempts to thrive again. I can't do it any other way. I will not be flexible in my wants and needs, I know me, I know what I like. I know the contract that was negotiated long before our wedding day - that is the contract I expect to be honored.

Big hug! Really don't know what to say except I wish the best for both of you no matter how it turns out.

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: PrincessButtercup on February 13, 2017, 05:37:08 PM
It's been over a year since a nuclear bomb decimated my life, I guess it's time for a bit of an update. After being completely miserable for the entirety of 2016, I started off 2017 with a much more organized house, both physically and emotionally. 

After promising me that the shopping would cease, of course more things arrived 'because they were on sale' and 'was stuff he had wanted to get' when he was ordering clothes, lingerie, etc to the tune of several packages arriving every other week it seemed. Columbus Day we had several contractors in doing the year-end maintenance items on our new house. I took a break and went to the mailbox where a package of clothing was sitting just waiting to be collected. I gave it to him thinking it was a Halloween costume I knew he had ordered. When he didn't open it immediately, I asked if it was stuff I didn't want to know about. I knew the answer from the look on his face. That's when he gave me excuses. I took my wedding rings off that night and haven't put them back on sense. He broke his promise and I knew he was never intending to actually keep it. He never noticed until I finally pointed it out the day after our wedding anniversary. Four months later and those rings are still sitting untouched in my jewelry box. I no longer even miss the weight of them on my hand.

By Thanksgiving I couldn't stand going into our shared closet and would become overcome with a feeling of complete dread every morning and night because of the women's clothes he had hanging on his side. I constantly worried that friends would see them when he or I were showing them the house. I finally reached a breaking point. I went to the local hardware store and bought a couple of storage totes while he was gone for a week long business trip. I packed up all the shoes, dresses, and lingerie - so much lingerie... much more than I knew about. I stuffed it all into two totes and left them sitting in his home office. If he wanted to see them or interact with them, he could do it in the privacy of his office, far away from me. After about 6 weeks had passed, he moved them to the storage room where they're shoved in the back corner of a shelf. He never mentioned it.

A few days before our fifth anniversary another package arrived. It was badly torn and I knew he was expecting a jacket, so I opened it the rest of the way (didn't really take much). Inside was a man's jacket and 3 dresses. I was so angry my hands were shaking. I opened the door to his office and threw them at him. We exchanged a few words, I reminded him that he promised it wouldn't happen again. About 20 minutes later he tried to tell me that he ordered them for me. They're all his size, not mine. I have many dresses in our shared closet, it would not have taken super sleuthing to know my size. He's also bought me many things over the years, always getting my size correct. The offending items sat in his office for weeks. He finally moved them to the same shelf as the totes. At least he's stopped saying he got them for me.

On our anniversary he wanted to go out for a nice dinner to celebrate. I said I wasn't sure what I was supposed to be celebrating. I went anyway. He says I look at him as if I'm completely repulsed. I don't trust him. He's going to have to earn that back and it's not going to be a quick thing. Words will no longer suffice, it will take proven action. I can not be bought with gifts. I've told him that any more broken promises or transgressions and I'm gone.

I ended up gaining a total of 35 lbs from the hellish year known as 2016. I started greatly restricting my caloric intake in mid-January. I managed to drop 11 lbs in a month. I'm giving myself 400-600 calories a day, with a 1000 calorie day once a week. I should be back to my goal weight by the end of May. Last year was all about him, this year I'm focusing on me. It's what I have to do to survive and attempts to thrive again. I can't do it any other way. I will not be flexible in my wants and needs, I know me, I know what I like. I know the contract that was negotiated long before our wedding day - that is the contract I expect to be honored.

Hi Princess Buttercup,

You sound terribly unhappy.  I wish there was something I could say that would solve this problem.  I don't really think this is healthy for you or your husband.  There's no shame in calling it a day.  As you know there are many reason why relationships don't work out.   Misleading your spouse happens in many relationships this isn't exclusive to transgender people. 

In a perfect world your husband and you would never have been put in this situation.  She would have started to transition as a child.  Instead she was raised in a world that believed this was a perversion, a mental illness, something that the world should not accept.  There's still a large segment of the population that feels this way.

For many years the psychiatric world thought this could be "cured", a very small vocal minority still do.  Many transgender people believed this was possible as well if they just tried hard enough.   They mainly used aversion therapy to "fix" this with no success.  They use to use the same treatment to "cure" being gay or lesbian.  Now finally most have come to conclusion there's nothing to cure, this is who the person is, it's society that has the problem.

Unfortunately, transgender people have tried to follow society's guidelines to their detriment and the ones closest to them.  They have fallen in love with people who really didn't understand who they are.  Remember they've been trained since childhood that this was not something to divulge, it was something to be ashamed of.
   
Perhaps, the only way out of this for you and her, is for both of you to admit who she is and accept it.  This isn't easy for her either.  If the marriage has to end, it has to end, but try to balance the lying with the situation society has put her in.  I'm sure you and her had many good times in your relationship, that shouldn't be forgotten.  It seems that she still loves you but you've become incompatible.  It happens, hopefully you can stay friends.

Take care and lots of love,
Paige

P.S. in many ways I'm writing this to myself and my wife.

Quote from: Paige on February 14, 2017, 08:52:43 AM
Hi Princess Buttercup,

You sound terribly unhappy.  I wish there was something I could say that would solve this problem.  I don't really think this is healthy for you or your husband.  There's no shame in calling it a day.  As you know there are many reason why relationships don't work out.   Misleading your spouse happens in many relationships this isn't exclusive to transgender people. 

In a perfect world your husband and you would never have been put in this situation.  She would have started to transition as a child.  Instead she was raised in a world that believed this was a perversion, a mental illness, something that the world should not accept.  There's still a large segment of the population that feels this way.

For many years the psychiatric world thought this could be "cured", a very small vocal minority still do.  Many transgender people believed this was possible as well if they just tried hard enough.   They mainly used aversion therapy to "fix" this with no success.  They use to use the same treatment to "cure" being gay or lesbian.  Now finally most have come to conclusion there's nothing to cure, this is who the person is, it's society that has the problem.

Unfortunately, transgender people have tried to follow society's guidelines to their detriment and the ones closest to them.  They have fallen in love with people who really didn't understand who they are.  Remember they've been trained since childhood that this was not something to divulge, it was something to be ashamed of.
   
Perhaps, the only way out of this for you and her, is for both of you to admit who she is and accept it.  This isn't easy for her either.  If the marriage has to end, it has to end, but try to balance the lying with the situation society has put her in.  I'm sure you and her had many good times in your relationship, that shouldn't be forgotten.  It seems that she still loves you but you've become incompatible.  It happens, hopefully you can stay friends.

Take care and lots of love,
Paige

P.S. in many ways I'm writing this to myself and my wife.

Not to pick a fight here, but if you read through this thread you'll see that my husband is a 'he.' He refers to himself as a man. He considers himself non-binary male. He also knew he was a crossdresser from childhood and he chose to not disclose that fact because he knew I wouldn't give him the time of day. Those were his choices - he made them. Now I get to deal with them and clean up the mess.

He's been through counseling, he's happy with where he's at. I'm the one trying to come to terms with the fact that someone who supposedly loves me would consciously lie to me for years when he knew from the beginning what he was and that lies are the one thing I won't tolerate.

Every day is a roller coaster ride for me - up and down, twisting and turning. I agreed to give it time and that's what I'm doing.

Quote from: PrincessButtercup on February 14, 2017, 10:55:06 AM
Not to pick a fight here, but if you read through this thread you'll see that my husband is a 'he.' He refers to himself as a man. He considers himself non-binary male. He also knew he was a crossdresser from childhood and he chose to not disclose that fact because he knew I wouldn't give him the time of day. Those were his choices - he made them. Now I get to deal with them and clean up the mess.

He's been through counseling, he's happy with where he's at. I'm the one trying to come to terms with the fact that someone who supposedly loves me would consciously lie to me for years when he knew from the beginning what he was and that lies are the one thing I won't tolerate.

Every day is a roller coaster ride for me - up and down, twisting and turning. I agreed to give it time and that's what I'm doing.

Hi Princess Buttercup,

Sorry I'm new to your thread, I should have read it all but it's rather long, I shouldn't have assumed he wanted to transition. 

As for tolerating his lies I never suggested you should.  It's completely up to you to decide how you want your relationship to continue or not.  All I suggested was that societal pressures should be considered when you're casting judgement.  It's not easy living in a society where a good percentage of the population hates you.  That doesn't mean you have to forgive him.

I can only go by my own experience.  My wife knew I was transgender almost from the start of our 30 year relationship.  For years I thought I could fight this. I'm 54 now and I now know this is impossible.  Have I always been truthful, no I've been embarrassed when I've fallen off the wagon.  Recently I've come to the conclusion my feelings about my gender will never change but it took a long time to finally admit that.  Does that mean I've decided to transition, no, I'm still very much up in the air about that.  My wife and I are trying to work through this.  Neither of us are sure our marriage will last.

My wife also says it's only the lying that she can't tolerate, but then she'll admit that she's very uncomfortable with the whole transgender idea and would be terribly embarrassed if people knew about me.  Tell me Buttercup how would you feel if your spouse was embarrassed by who you are?  The same spouse that you've loved for years and raised a great family with.  Life isn't easy, relationships aren't easy.  My wife's parents were terrible alcoholics, they had a hell of a life.  There's no guarantees in relationships.

I understand you feel like your husband has terribly wronged you.  There's not much I can say about that except dwelling on this doesn't seem productive.  I have no idea if your relationship is salvageable but all that resentment isn't helpful for your health.  Have you seen your own therapist?

Have a nice day and sorry again for making assumptions,
Paige

My call on this is you need to return to couple consoling. You husband will need to decide between doing as he wishes with separation or keeping his word and you will need to make this point before a third party. I had hopes that you could remain together and you have kept your part of the bargain but your husband hasn't. I am sorry it has reached this point but life is to short to live it without happiness so I suggest you have a joint session soon.

Hi PricessButtercup

IMHO...the issue here isn't just a Trans one, the issues here...is trust. He made a promise to you and has not kept it. You also made a promise to him and you have kept it.

It really doesn't matter what the contents of the agreement were. Although in this case it is already contenscious within your relationship and seems almost provocative on his part to keep ordering stuff. In any relationship trust is paramount, it is unreasonable to expect anyone to stay cool calm and collected when they are constantly lied to.

You have made yourself very clear to him. The choice is his...if he continues, he does so with the full knowledge of the consequences.

Good luck with the weight loss it is never an easy thing to accomplish. I hope 2017 is a better year for you and filled with a few more joys ...

Liz

Hi
I still read this forum Princess Buttercup, I just wanted to say I read your update. Hugs Marie


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Quote from: Paige on February 14, 2017, 02:01:54 PM
Tell me Buttercup how would you feel if your spouse was embarrassed by who you are?

You mean like how he's horribly embarrassed about the fact that I'm Pagan. Or, that I was once a dungeon mistress and how I've been into BDSM for several decades? No, I wouldn't know anything about how it feels for my spouse to be embarrassed by what I am. The difference is, I know it makes him uncomfortable, so I've never pushed either into our home or relationship.

Quote from: Dena on February 14, 2017, 03:50:02 PM
My call on this is you need to return to couple consoling. You husband will need to decide between doing as he wishes with separation or keeping his word and you will need to make this point before a third party. I had hopes that you could remain together and you have kept your part of the bargain but your husband hasn't. I am sorry it has reached this point but life is to short to live it without happiness so I suggest you have a joint session soon.

I've made that point in joint sessions. The problem is he will say whatever it is I want to hear or he thinks the therapist wants to hear. We were doing separate short sessions and then longer joint sessions with a therapist. It didn't really resolve anything. In fact, she thought I was incredibly judgmental because I was okay with his cross dressing for the first 6 years, but then wasn't okay with the trans thing. I had to point out that I didn't know about his CD habit because he never told me until he gave me the letter in January 2016. Then she started to understand why I was so upset with him. So, no, handing over a bunch of money to be lied to again isn't really in the cards.

Quote from: ElizabethK on February 14, 2017, 04:17:38 PM
Hi PricessButtercup

IMHO...the issue here isn't just a Trans one, the issues here...is trust. He made a promise to you and has not kept it. You also made a promise to him and you have kept it.

It really doesn't matter what the contents of the agreement were. Although in this case it is already contenscious within your relationship and seems almost provocative on his part to keep ordering stuff. In any relationship trust is paramount, it is unreasonable to expect anyone to stay cool calm and collected when they are constantly lied to.

You have made yourself very clear to him. The choice is his...if he continues, he does so with the full knowledge of the consequences.

Good luck with the weight loss it is never an easy thing to accomplish. I hope 2017 is a better year for you and filled with a few more joys ...

Liz

Thanks for that. It's always good to have a little confirmation that I'm not expecting unreasonable things, such as honesty.

Quote from: Marienz on February 16, 2017, 04:55:19 AM
Hi
I still read this forum Princess Buttercup, I just wanted to say I read your update. Hugs Marie


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hi! I was thinking about you the other day and wondering how you've been. Drop me a PM and let me know how life is going on the other side of the world.