As (finally) warmer weather hit the city, I got to dress lighter and lighter these past weeks, and away went what was kind of an armor: my winter jacket which is more male style than ladies.

Anyways, I'm not sure it's that much how I dress, is it my face?

Those I know don't seem to notice the changes.

must be my hair

anyways it's constant male fail, people smile and laugh or look offended. There is always an awkward moment every time I step in anywhere, store...

But they don't see a woman

They see a trans (I guess)

well that's my new reality when I go out, now with a ladies T-shirt and skinny blue jeans on: everyone looking at me even from afar... hmmm maybe some of these men where first attracted by a woman but soon realized...

I don't know... it's a bit freaking out to not know what's in in the other people's mind when they look at you like this.

No choice but to go out, big dog to walk, so... yea

Bring it on, life

I feel good

well its hard to understand without some pic..could you post one pic ?

you never know maybe you pass and just dont know it, and your beautifull no matter what.. thats my motto to life.

I know all about the winter armor. I've mentioned it to therapists and gotten a look of confusion out of it. When it's cooler out, I get to wear something to cover up everything but my face, so it kind of feels like people aren't actually seeing me. With warmer weather, I'm forced to wear things that show more of my frame and I worry about what people are seeing. I also have ink that is a lot more masculine than I'd like. It's stuff I wanted to get, but I had it done to look as tough as possible to make me feel more like a man. Now when I go to a beach, they're completely visible and it makes me nervous. Like if someone is on the fence about me, are these things going to make them see a guy in a dress instead? I thought about getting someone to feminize them more, but is covering up my past really the best idea?

The male fail you're speaking of sounds like me this past December. I was still presenting male almost everywhere. Younger people were pretty consistently seeing not a male. Women my own age were pretty consistently seeing a woman. Everybody else saw a guy. I also started getting some looks in the men's room that said get out and right now. It got to a point where I had no idea where to pee, so I would avoid it like the plague. I would actually try to stay dehydrated so I wouldn't have to. I also ran into issues in stores where people were looking very intensely at me for far too long for comfort. All this was while still presenting male.

By the end of the month I had no idea how people were seeing me. It was about a 50/50 split of people that saw a guy vs a woman. At that point I did the most drastic thing ever. I had thrown my male clothes in closets before only to bring them out a week or two later. This time I threw them all in a dumpster so there was no fallback plan since all I had now was women's clothes. I figured I'm going to get misgendered 50% of the time, so I might as well be wearing what I want to. The more I did it, the more natural it became, and the higher the percentage of ma'ams got. Eventually I had enough confidence to actually act like I was presenting female and started using makeup, nail polish, and purses. Prior to that I felt like it was safest for people to make up their own minds.

VeronicaMJ, yea, you may be right (I think I'm cute). Guess it's a good motto.
I will look into taking a pic of me I don't hate, I'm somewhat a photographer so it needs to be a nice pic and my camera... i lost the charger, anyways yea... coming up haha

Quote from: Emileeeee on May 20, 2016, 05:40:29 PM
I know all about the winter armor.

yea... and my purple scarf I could go back to every fall, giving me a touch of feminity but at the same time hiding part of my face (that has beard haha), I love my purple scarf, and since most of the year is cold, it has been a good refuge, had it for long

Quote from: Emileeeee on May 20, 2016, 05:40:29 PM
The more I did it, the more natural it became, and the higher the percentage of ma'ams got. Eventually I had enough confidence to actually act like I was presenting female and started using makeup, nail polish, and purses. Prior to that I felt like it was safest for people to make up their own minds.

yeaaaa, thanks for sharing, I feel I'm on that road also :-)

looks like a sunny way

I've had some similar experiences, but I don't think it's actual male fail for me. The other day I went into a local burger joint in a really rural area (like "500 people in the whole town and no cell reception within 10 miles" rural) and everyone in the establishment actually turned and stared at me after I came through the door. You could hear a pin drop, it was really creepy. I even caught a few people looking (still looking?) at me like 2 or 3 minutes later, and they looked away when I made eye contact.  But maybe they're just interested in anybody new? ...

Or perhaps I'm just more aware of, or sensitive to, people looking at me than I used to be, but it sure seems like people pay more attention to me now when I come through a doorway or pass through a room. I guess I look pretty weird. Which sucks because I'm extremely self-conscious; I'd feel much more comfortable if everyone just pretended I wasn't there, but it seems to be going in the opposite direction. Oh well...perhaps it could be fun? 

Living in the San Francisco Bay Area, in California, I don't generally get to don that winter armor. Temps stay moderate and never really get too cold. Besides my taste in winter armor generally stick with my not so male clothing.
I generally don't have male fail yet, and lack the starting point for anything... Blasted army needs to hurry up with lifting the ban.

Kate <3

Congrats, Soli!  I'm fulltime these days, so I don't know if I male fail or not.  Maybe I should try going out dressed like a boy one of these days.  I might be able to handle that once and a while now.

Quote from: sparrow on May 20, 2016, 09:02:54 PM
Congrats, Soli!  I'm fulltime these days, so I don't know if I male fail or not.  Maybe I should try going out dressed like a boy one of these days.  I might be able to handle that once and a while now.

uhh thanks, it's a good thing? I really feel I'm into the transition now... really mixed up... it's my f* face hair too, that's what's wrong, maybe I'm on the verge of passing but these dark shadows... I stopped pulling them so it's getting worst, gotta get laser... coming up.

pffff well this is a rough part I guess 

I think that it is just part of what we all go through at some point. Most confusing of all for me is the people who have known me all along. "Well you still look like you, with breasts and long hair." So I have been going on that information, and truthfully I don't always see the the girl in me. When I went full time, dressing mostly andro, I tried to use the male bathrooms and the second time I was told that the ladies room is across the hall. That was 8 months ago, I have only used the ladies room since. That was stage 2 of male fail, first was the phone which has been male fail from almost the beginning. Don't ask me why, at the time when I wasn't on the phone I just couldn't keep my voice right.  Some people at work were sitting and talking a few weeks ago and a girl from another shift,that I hadn't seen for a while, joined us and said she couldn't believe how good my voice was. Everyone else was like, I don't remember, wasn't her voice always like this? After some coaxing I used my old voice, wasn't easy, they just stared at me. Then one said, 'That's disturbing. ' another said,'Don't ever do that again.' So that is male fail for certain. Stage 2 was just being in normal clothes, that slowly went from andro to totally fem when I wasn't looking. Banks, superstore that has membership, insurance and even, if you can believe it, the VA doctors offices that I go to, have become so annoying for me. Superstore with my old ID,'Well is he with you, the member must do the purchasing.' The two banks I use are much worse. 'Well I can't let you change his address, he will just have to come in himself.' My DOCTORS office! Mr... oh... looks at the paper again looks back up face completely red,'I am so sorry, I've never met a girl named Michael before.' The hoops they make you go through to change your name, grr, I started the process 3 months ago and still not done yet. All of which was very confusing for me, no one that I know treats me any different and act like my looks haven't changed at all. Now I work a lot and have to wear a uniform that makes everyone look masculine. So I just have to assume that in uniform I will always be gendered wrong right? Well now new people call me she and her, I get miss and ma'am only, in uniform or out. What am I to think? Have I reached male fail? I don't know.

I am glad you posted this thread. It has been on my mind recently too. The, what am I looking at, looks are gone. I kind of feel invisible almost after the months of constant scrutiny when I first went full time.

Sometimes I think this is just something we all have to go through to reach the other side. One day we will all be like, oh... I guess I am here now.

Cool, thanks for sharing Michelle, I guess you had laser and electrolysis done prior to that?

And welcome to Susan's 🙂

Thank you. 🙂 I have been on before a couple years ago.

Sadly, I have only started hair removal recently. Tomorrow is my second appointment. It's hard to see for the first eight hours or so after I shave, maybe because of the grey. 🙂 I should wear makeup but it just feels like putting a cow in an evening gown.

Male fail? I am not sure, I am a girl now head and heart, that I know. I find myself running to catch up to my transition. First it was the voice, great on the phone but horrible the rest of the time. The breasts were growing and I had to SERIOUSLY work on my voice so I did. My name started to confuse people, much more than I thought it would. I didn't think I was passing at all. So I started the name change process and went to Michelle exclusively when asked. I haven't worked hard enough on the small things, makeup, hairstyles and things like that. It wasn't necessary before. Everyone looked at me wierd and I felt that I was never going to pass. Now I feellike a girl and from every indication ppeople are seeing a girl when they look at me. A kind of dumpy girl. 🙁 I didn't care when I was sure that I would never pass, now it eats at me. Maybe, it's the breasts or hair or the way I walk and talk or general mannerisms, but people are seeing a girl. At first I was the freak show, everyone staring. Then I thought, wow, people are really being nice because the freak show stares stopped. Then I noticed that people were treating me differently. Women stopped treating me like 'one of them' and started to treat me like 'one of us'. Men started to smile at me and hold open doors. It's a huge change from when I first went full time. I cried myself to sleep every night for the first two months.

I worry about everything, but anymore I feel like it's a waste of my time. Whether I pass or not, people are treating like a girl and that is good enough. But....   

I still feel like I am running to catch up. Facial hair, down there hair before my surgery, more clothes ( oh god, I seem to never have enough ) lose weight and on and on. When I was whining about it to my friend she just said, congratulations, you are a girl. Good luck and get used to it, it never ends.

And that is a long ramble. 🙂

I guess what I am trying to say is, that will pass. The,'Hey, look at the Trans!' will end and you will just be you.

Michelle,

Sorry for interrupting the thread. I wanted to welcome you to the site. As Soli said, thanks for sharing.

As a newly posting member, I want to share some links with you. They are welcome info and the rules that govern the site. If you have not had a chance, please take some time to read through them:

Site Terms of Service & Rules to Live By	Standard Terms & Definitions	Post Ranks (including when you can upload an avatar)
Reputation rules	News posting & quoting guidelines	Photo, avatars, & signature images policy

Once again, welcome to Susan's. Look around, ask questions and continue to join in.

With warmth,

Joanna

Quote from: Michelle69Elizabeth on May 27, 2016, 10:43:28 PM
Everyone looked at me wierd and I felt that I was never going to pass.

Then I thought, wow, people are really being nice because the freak show stares stopped. Then I noticed that people were treating me differently.

I cried myself to sleep every night for the first two months.

I guess what I am trying to say is, that will pass. The,'Hey, look at the Trans!' will end and you will just be you.

Michelle, I really, really appreciate your post, thanks again for sharing.

I wonder though if it's more us who stop freaking out about the looks we get or really the other people's looks who actually fade in intensity... maybe a lil' of both?

anyways thanks again, helps me see ahead.

I must say I feel better day by day and even got a pic of me I don't hate, trying to get it from my phone now

Quote from: Soli on May 28, 2016, 10:24:34 AM
I wonder though if it's more us who stop freaking out about the looks we get or really the other people's looks who actually fade in intensity... maybe a lil' of both?

I think both. The further you go in your transition, the more comfortable you get in public. You also find clothing that actually makes you look good that you like wearing instead of just wearing what you think you should be wearing to look more feminine. So the confidence I think is a big part of it.

People in general seem to also speak to me differently. Everybody sounds bubbly now, well when they're not clocking me anyway. Men actually smile when they're talking to me and men and women alike raise the pitch of their voice when speaking to me. Cashiers at the grocery store are about as friendly as anybody can be and salesmen at home improvement shops and auto maintenance locations treat me like a complete moron.

The mechanics are especially frustrating. I've dealt with the same ones for years, even when I was still presenting male. They knew I knew hardly anything about cars, but still talked to me like a person and even took the time to explain in detail how everything works. Now they treat me like I'm too stupid to understand and charge me twice as much. But it's a small price to pay in exchange for being able to look at myself in the mirror.

Quote from: VeronicaMJ on May 20, 2016, 04:21:26 PM
well its hard to understand without some pic..could you post one pic ?

you never know maybe you pass and just dont know it, and your beautifull no matter what.. thats my motto to life.

hey anyone, can I post a pic here on this thread, maybe remove it after? I mean how do I do that? :-)

think I got it:
unshaved (24h) here goes

oh no too large wait

ok...



😛 (sorry can't really live with the idea of pics of me being online.)

 

I was so moved to read this conversation.

I've just started electrolysis (putting off hormones until I see a fertility clinic). Before I even saw a doctor, I would get 'mistaken', and always have on the phone - either as female (usually), or even as a child (''can I speak to your parents?'' style) - I'm 33.

It's one of the things that gave me the confidence to just do it. I went away with my mother last year, and the perfume counter staff at the airport to the cabin crew addressed us as 'ladies...'.

It embarrassed me because I wasn't trying, and my mother was obviously embarrassed on my behalf - little did she know how pleasing it was! Or maybe she should know if she's honest. We joked about it - ''how come they keep saying that? they must think you've had a mastectomy''.

If it wasn't for the hair, I'd be much more confident, but I was so horrified by facial hair I used to (now have to) shave my entire face - making the things 'terminal'. I could cry to think I did that. And the amount of time and money I've spent since the late 1990's on hair removal - it would've been cheaper and less time consuming to have just had electrolysis all along, and now have it sorted.

🙂

I haven't contributed here for a long time. Kinda always feel like, what could I possibly say that would help.

Thank you Soli and everyone who has posted, I really needed to work through that. Not that any of my conclusions are right but I feel much better now about male fail and how little it matters.

Quote from: Michelle69Elizabeth on May 29, 2016, 07:45:10 PM


I haven't contributed here for a long time. Kinda always feel like, what could I possibly say that would help.

Thank you Soli and everyone who has posted, I really needed to work through that. Not that any of my conclusions are right but I feel much better now about male fail and how little it matters.

I think it matters if you suffer it.

But maybe we all have these prejudices where we look at people and wonder things. I was in the supermarket the other day, and the security guard was a very masculine woman - and I thought, probably a lesbian, might be trans. Definitely didn't think she was a straight woman.

For a real confidence boost, go to the Middle East/North Africa. It defies logic but it works, and you'll not only pass but you'll start wishing you didn't. I went on a trip through a desert region and wore the full burkha and veil - it was the only way to be left alone. It's kind of chivalrous in a way - apart from how explicit some of the younger guys are.