i just realized something. being trans is about being who you really are on the inside, being free, correct? so why do we have to give up the things we love in order to be "seen as" female by others? look around. there are butch women who love football and beer and motorcycles, and doing all of those things doesn't rob them of the fact that they are women. there are women who are hippie chicks who dress down, don't wear a whole lot of makeup and wear a lot of loose clothing and flats. they don't have to put these things on in order to be women. and there are women who really dress up nice some days, and dress down other days. and then there are women that are very high femme who always dress to the nines; they look beautiful but they are no "more" women than any other category of woman. there are all types of women.

what it comes down to is, you can be whoever you are and still be a woman. you shouldn't have to prove yourself to anyone. it took me a few months of being hyper-feminine to realize this, and now i've settled in a place where i am confident about myself. because the fact of the matter is, as trans people, we're never going to fit into society's disproven ideas about gender identity, so there is no point trying to appeal to bigots. the only thing we can do is be us, and let the world deal with it.

Yep I never gave up anything when I transitioned. You can't force yourself to be something you're not but then again you kind of go through a period of awakening, as I like to call it once you do start transition. By that I mean you begin to get to know yourself even better without the constraints of trying to "be male"

I think that trying to be super feminine can work against us. We didn't grow up like that and it is quite evident to anyone observing our pain as we try to do unnatural things.

Being feminine is nothing about clothes. I wear unisex tees, jeans, and boots here on my "ranch." When I'm working on a project, I go into town like that sometimes. It makes no difference to me or anyone else. I'm a bit of a tomboy and people accept that.

When I wear makeup, I've found out what works best for me and my behaviors. I wear a simple and light powder foundation and a very light cheek blush. Eye makeup doesn't work for me. I get it.

Given that, it doesn't hurt to watch other women and see what they do. This may be useful if you aren't getting along well in public. I have changed some of my behaviors. I cross my legs now. I keep my elbows off the dining table. I listen more. These simple things work for me and I'm comfortable with them.

Yeah...we all go through that hyper-feminine experimenting teenage girl phase until we figure out what works for us.  The difference though between butch women and us is that they risk not looking pretty, but we risk looking like a man.

I wear skirts and dresses when weather permits, but I've figured out how to be myself in a feminine way.  Boobs and not having any facial hair do help though. 

For me, it was much more about un-learning all of the stereotypical boy socialization.  Losing the rigidity in my movements, and guarding my speech to make sure I didn't say something too girly, or having to know about sports to fit into the guy culture.  While there is a clear notion of what is and isn't "ladylike", women really do have more options in terms of clothing, mannerisms, feelings, etc.

And btw...I'm currently sitting out on my back porch drinking scotch and enjoying a cigar.  I refuse to give those up 

Be the woman you want to be. Just keep in mind that genetic women who are butch and/or non-make up/unshaved often cop a fair deal of grief for expressing themselves that way too.

One thing I have noticed is that women who are overdressed get noticed. We, as a group, tend to overdress when we are just starting our transition. We go super feminine. We want to look nice. As a result we get noticed. And then people start drilling down on us. They do that with cis women too.

This is the most difficult time for us. We are trying to be female. We are standing out. We are getting noticed. And if we don't have that "IT" factor down, people will figure that out quickly.

Quote from: katiej on June 04, 2016, 06:14:15 PM


And btw...I'm currently sitting out on my back porch drinking scotch and enjoying a cigar.  I refuse to give those up 

*giggle* I think it's ladylike if it's single malt, but you're on your own with the cigar 

Quote from: TC on June 05, 2016, 05:03:52 PM
*giggle* I think it's ladylike if it's single malt, but you're on your own with the cigar 

Of course it was single malt.  Laphraoig 10

I've given up things that I did to fit in. If it was something that I loved then I still do.
I would still enjoy a nice single malt and a cigar. I sadly can't afford that any more, but I wouldn't decline if offered [emoji3]

  I see it as dropping the facade of trying to act like a guy, I had to suppress my femininity when I was growing up. I had  four older brothers to beat it out of me, two of them were so abusive that I have had bones broken and been stabbed by one of them.  My mother was an emergency room nurse and she sewed up the stab wound so my brother wouldn't get in trouble.

Quote from: kiteless on June 04, 2016, 03:29:52 PM
i just realized something. being trans is about being who you really are on the inside, being free, correct? so why do we have to give up the things we love in order to be "seen as" female by others? look around. there are butch women who love football and beer and motorcycles, and doing all of those things doesn't rob them of the fact that they are women. there are women who are hippie chicks who dress down, don't wear a whole lot of makeup and wear a lot of loose clothing and flats. they don't have to put these things on in order to be women. and there are women who really dress up nice some days, and dress down other days. and then there are women that are very high femme who always dress to the nines; they look beautiful but they are no "more" women than any other category of woman. there are all types of women.

what it comes down to is, you can be whoever you are and still be a woman. you shouldn't have to prove yourself to anyone. it took me a few months of being hyper-feminine to realize this, and now i've settled in a place where i am confident about myself. because the fact of the matter is, as trans people, we're never going to fit into society's disproven ideas about gender identity, so there is no point trying to appeal to bigots. the only thing we can do is be us, and let the world deal with it.

Nicely expressed understanding and "realization" of gender identity vs gender roles and the too stereotypical expressions of culture.  I takes some of us a while to get this.  During transition I needed to be able to express a full and wide range of gender that had been repressed and kept in hiding.  It feels a bit like having a second chance puberty and, like a lot of teens, that might mean something over the top that I have tried on and out.

I consider too that I am and was transgender before transition and before i could accept myself and lived behind a beard and frumpy guy clothes.  We can celebrate the diversity you speak of and welcome the fact that we come in all shapes, sizes and modes of expression.  This can allow ourselves greater freedom and we need not seek classes or training in deportment, poise or etiquette to know who we really are. 

Likewise, for those who do have certain binary goals and want to achieve an image that may include looking like a glamour model or the woman of their dreams, well rock on sisters.  It's your call for this one and only life

Thanks Cindi for pointing this out. I have seen some not all that would wear fish net at 10 am.
I understand if you wish you to be noticed, but I don't see a lot of women wearing fish nets especially during that time of day.
I say learn how to dress by observing women at around your age level and see if you can adapt a thing or two.

Quote from: Cindi Jones on June 05, 2016, 11:34:09 AM
One thing I have noticed is that women who are overdressed get noticed. We, as a group, tend to overdress when we are just starting our transition. We go super feminine. We want to look nice. As a result we get noticed. And then people start drilling down on us. They do that with cis women too.

This is the most difficult time for us. We are trying to be female. We are standing out. We are getting noticed. And if we don't have that "IT" factor down, people will figure that out quickly.

Great post. We are a diverse lot like all women and should strive only to be ourselves. Often that means our presentation and style changes over time.

I was always acting when i was trying to be masculine, so being myself has taken a huge psychological load off me. Still, my style is casual, my makeup light and i do not hesitate to continue to do the things i loved before, including some pretty extreme sports as my body will allow.

Quote from: StevieC9 on June 05, 2016, 10:57:24 PM
I would still enjoy a nice single malt and a cigar. I sadly can't afford that any more, but I wouldn't decline if offered [emoji3]

Come to Seattle...I'll make it happen 

I had to learn and hear when I was about 10 years old, "heey, look at him, he stands here like a girl" - and still remember stuff like that as it was yesterday... of course I focused since then, always to be as manly as possible... It wasn't really possible all the time, but I learnd how I had to act and totaly hid who I was.... last year, I started to "learn" again by looking (not on a scary way) other females, friends and everyone...  in just some weeks it all came back what was hidden so long... so, I didn't realy learnd something, I just had to rember again, and now I0m just trying sometimes to forget what was so wrongly trained, and it's easier with every week... But that's just some behavier/movements and so on...

I'll always like football, singel malts, beer and so on - because it's nothing what defines my gender


//sorry for my bad english 

It is a free country and you can and should do whatever you want.

With that said - social norms do exist and society can and will judge you if you color outside the lines. You must find a balance between expressing yourself and how thick your skin is - the further outside the lines you are the more negative attention & judgements you are likely to encounter and the thicker your skin needs to be. Coloring outside the lines focuses attention on you - if you are OK with increased scrutiny then do your thing. This applies to what you wear as well as to how you act.

Some don't give a flip about this and to others it is very important to blend in. There is no correct answer; it is a personal choice.

One thing that I have noticed as a middle aged woman is that women my age accept me if I am not too different from them. I'm in my 50's so that means a more conservative dress style at work and socially - no cleavage, no fishnets, no loud makeup, no platform heels, etc. Women my age did that stuff in their youth and now they tend to look down on women their age still doing it.

So, do your thing but if you are over that line be sure that you can handle the consequences.

Quote from: April_TO on June 06, 2016, 07:48:10 AM
Thanks Cindi for pointing this out. I have seen some not all that would wear fish net at 10 am.
I understand if you wish you to be noticed, but I don't see a lot of women wearing fish nets especially during that time of day.
I say learn how to dress by observing women at around your age level and see if you can adapt a thing or two.

I have had the opportunity to observe my wife's dressing habits and mannerisms. It is nice to have a role modal living with you.

Jo

Hi Kiteless;
I agree totally with what Eva Marie says. These days I spend about 95% of my time dressed as myself, just 5% as my alter-ego.  Being a woman of later years I think I have found a reasonable medium. I was just in the United Kingdom staying in my UK cottage for the last month and had time to catch up with some old friends and new friends (mostly women). One cis female friend that I met up with a couple of times took me to a couple of social events of hers (a handbell group rehearsal - 6 women and 2 guys and a pub quiz night). I was obviously a bit concerned not to over dress although the quiz night was in a pub full of people.  Her comment to me was...Judith, you are very convincing as a female and blend in very well.. Obviously it helps that I have been on HRT for 3 years, have 44B+ bust and now womanly curves, no Adam Apple (never had one) and small hands and feet. But importantly I try to dress my age.

I also went to my local beauty therapist in Devon and she commented that I looked really great - she only sees me when I am in the UK, I went to her for a full facial and to get my Express lashes done (False lashes that last 10 weeks) and my eyebrows shaped and tinted.  Again she tells me every time that that I am very convincing now and most would not realise that I am pre-op. I can tell you that getting lashes and eyebrows done helps considerably too.

I also 3 years ago had my Colour Analysis done (UK House of Colour) and  have worked hard on my colour co-ordination including lipsticks, blushers and nails. Although I love high heels, these days I rarely wear them and if so tend to use wedges. But I rarely wear jeans or trousers, although I do have some really nice black leather pants and some flowing trousers and skinny jeans. But I spend almost all the time in dresses and skirts as I find them actually very liberating after all those years having to wear trousers!. In fact my deportment coach said in summer its best to just wear a soft off the shoulder skimpy "A line dress" that will move in the breeze. Don't over dress!. If you must take a long line cardigan or short tailored jacket. Most of my dresses and skirts are just above the knee. I.e. Nothing too short.  Though I do have some really nice denim shorts. These are quite short! and I have a nice denim skirt too (although that's just above the knee).

For makeup, during the day I only wear a light coverage of Bare Minerals Liquid foundation, blusher, lipstick (soft pink or nude) and mascara (I get my eyelashes tinted), but at night time put on eyeliner and eye shadow and highlighter, plus a stronger colour lipstick e.g. Ruby red. I don't go in for younger colours. I always have my nail and toenails nicely manicured and painted with colours from my House of Colour guide and  matching clothes swatch. For Nail varnish I always use OPI - Big Red Apple is my favourite, but I also love other two colours - Is Mai Tai Crooked and Cosmo Not tonight honey. Mascara is Dior Show - Blue Black Intense. I do like wearing open toe sandals (and of course open toe pantie hose). Note no bare legs for my age!  If anything I focus on dressing down to blend in.

Mind you it was lovely weather in Devon and I even braved it and went out and sat on one of the beaches in my new one piece swimsuit. That's a first for me, although I didn't venture into the sea this time

One key thing is don't try to be over feminine. Just be natural. Keep you head up when walking and don't forget to smile to people passing you by. You will be surprised at how many people smile back and then don't give you a second glance! Best of luck.
Hope this all helps
Judith Lynn

No, you most certainly do not have to give up anything nor be ultra-feminine as a trans woman.  Be yourself.  Just for validation, here's me after this past Sunday at the motocross track. 

Me all dirty, no bra, in a t-shirt:


Mah babies:


Have fun!  Live life.

Quote from: katiej on June 06, 2016, 10:56:56 AM
Come to Seattle...I'll make it happen 

Funny you should say that. I'm house sitting for some people in Albuquerque that happen to be in Seattle for medical reasons. They may be moving back there for good and I might have to drive a moving van up there for them.
If that happens I'll drop you a line. 
Take care.