Hi all

I really need your help about rather strange situation I have found my self in, or to say better am finding myself in, for quite some time now. I'll try to be short

When i first stared hormones - androcur and estradiol injections, my face and hair became much less oily, even dry, and my seborrheic dermatitis went away, which was such a great relief.
2 and a half years ago I've had my SRS, and after it I have discontinued Androcur, presuming I no longer need it.
In couple of months time I've noticed my facial hair becoming more dense and reappearing in places it was almost gone from. Also hair on my arms thickened, and my hair and face became much more greasy, and my seborrheic dermatits returned. Endo (who is always busy and gives little explanation) put me back on Androcur, but i was puzzled: why do i still need an anti-androgen when testes have been removed?
Androcur did resolve the problem but any attempt to reduce the dosage under the pre op level that I remained on, brought back the same symptoms. The most recent situation is, that despite unchanged Androcur dosage, the same symptoms (hair coming back, oily face and hair, SD) all stated coming back. Only difference is that i switched from injections to sub-lingual E. My lab results are fine and in female range, and my endo seems to know little about this. Though I've never checked my DHT, and some resources online indicate it might be the cause.

Also, very little to none resources I've been able to find online about this, so if any of you can help with an advice it would be greatly appreciated. Please ask me if you have any questions or need additional information in case i missed something.

Kind regards and thank you in advance

Well, without any real medical training, my only thought is that it's clearly possible for the adrenal glands to over-produce T to such a degree - it happens (if rarely) in cis women, who go on to have androgenic symptoms such as you describe. Since the anti-androgen resolved the situation, it does seem likely that over-production of T was the culprit?

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/healthlibrary/conditions/endocrinology/overactive_adrenal_glandscushings_syndrome_85,P00403/

"When adrenal glands produce excessive amounts of certain hormones, they are called "overactive." Symptoms and treatment depend on which hormones are being overproduced:

    Androgenic steroids (androgen hormones). An overproduction of androgenic steroids, such as testosterone, can lead to exaggerated male characteristics in both men and women, such as hairiness of the face and body, baldness, acne, deeper voice, and more muscularity."

Mind you, it might be worth the endo's time to check out WHY this is happening, rather than just treat the symptoms!

Because Androcur blocks ALL Androgens. T is just one androgen, there are many more. DHEA, DHT, androstenedione etcetera. Cyproterone/Androcur block them ALL. Which consequently is not healthy.

I got the same symptoms, while my T was unmeasurable. And this proves that T isn't responsible, but the other androgens are. Sebum is linked with other androgens, like DHT and cortisol.

If you want to control sebum, you need to control DHT. Not T.

Girls, thank you for you responses!

Since all other adrenal androgen hormones seem to be in normal range (DHEAS, androstenedione) when I checked them some 6 months ago, and my T is on the bottom of the female range, I have suspected that either DHT or some sort of T/DHT hypersensitivity seems to be the problem.

I have never had my DHT checked since no one ever told me to, and my insurance does not cover it either, but I am going to check it in a private lab(It is quite expensive, as well).
Also I found that taking "board spectrum" anti-androgen (Androcur) on the pre-op dose is quite strange, considering I have had my SRS over 2 years ago!
And its not just sebum that is the problem, facial and body hair increasing its growth and reappearing, is much more of an issue for me, sebum is mostly an annoyance, but hair is the biggest problem.

@2cherry: So in the end how did you solve your problem? What medication did u take? Was it perhaps finasteride or other DHT blocker? (I know dosages are forbidden on this forum, so I am asking just for the name.)

Thanks

Does anyone know of a DHT blocker other than finasteride? I experienced peripheral edema from finasteride.

Another one is dutasteride
Mariah

My cousin Kayla was prescribed a low dose of spironolactone to overcome the thick layer of hair that appeared on her arms and face.

Your gyno can check your dht levels for both male and female levels--there's multiple boxes they can check so you can see where you fall. My lab didn't know why they checked the boxes for male level dht and I said it was the gyno checking wrong boxes not paying attention...and insurance won't pay for a female to get male levels checked--I hope that makes sense...They can and will pay to check your dht if the female dht box is checked on the slip--your gyno just has to interpet the numbers to see if it's in the normal female range. Mine just wanted to check the male dht level thingy to see if the tests measured differently--but since the lab won't run a 'male' test on a female, and insurance won't pay for a male test on a female, I  just skipped it.

In any event, over time, and Im 20years post op, you'll fall into the normal woman for your age category. At my age, my hormone levels are perfect--all my levels are spot on. My gyno put it to me like this, I don't have ovaries so the estrogen is what keeps my bones strong, yadda yadda...I'm not overdosing on it or going to go into an estrogen-dominance thing because the estrace i take is what my body would be making if i had ovaries--not more not less. And because my body is so 'normal female' now, I have the other goodies that come with my age--drier skin, more brittle bones, usual middle-aged caucasian female concerns. I even have a chronic illness not that primarily affect women(over 90% of the time).

As far as hairyness, if your bloodwork is normal, hormones are normal, I'd think about family history...do you have primary rellys who are on the hairy side? Another lovely side effect of aging is that we start getting the more icky traits of our foremothers--floppy boobs and a moustache.lol
If you're concerned about being overly hairy, I cannot recommend enough,laser treatments!! Not the IPL, it's a waste of money--but the ruby or alexandrite laser--whichever is the newer, I can't remember.... Don't waste your time on that light sheer one either--that's crap. I was furry despite hormones, being delicate framed, etc--it's just genetics. Getting lasered was the absolute best thing I ever have done--right up there with SRS. Now you can get your whole body done for cheap. And if you have patience and time, you can Tria in the privacy of your home. I did my pits, arms and legs, and after a couple years of sporadic use, I have zero hair under my arms or around my vag--and I only shave my legs every couple weeks.
Whatever problem you have, there's a solution

Hi everyone

It's been nearly 3 months since i last wrote about my situation regarding excess hair and sebum. In the meantime I've had my DHT measured and had a level of 310 pg/ml while the reference range the lab provided is 40 - 220.
So my doctor started me on Proscar (finasteride) 1/2 tablet, while Androcur was reduced to 1/2 tablet daily.
Now its been little over 2 months that i started finasteride and one month since i reduced Androcur.
In the meantime i haven't noticed any change in sebum production on excess hair, but during the last few weeks i've noticed my hair becomes greasy more quickly, and hair on my arms became even more noticable. Also, I've noticed those very fine hairs on my stomach and chest becoming more noticeable.

Now i am even more worried, because it seems finasteride isn't helping and the reduction of dosage of androcur brought on even more problems. How fast does finasteride work? Is there any way to fight body hair and excessively oily skin rather than with large dosage of Androcur?
Any input from anyone who has had similar problem is very much appreciated.
Thank you all 

You could think about bioidentical progesterone:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,192953.msg1733564.html#msg1733564

It might have a few beneficial side effects...

is it sure both testes were removed ? Sometimes there might be an undeveloped one... like in a intersex condition... you might ask a doctor.

Concerning testo production by adrenal glands, you might experiment a bit with nutrition...
maybe a more vegetable nutrition, fresh fruits, cutting down on sugar and sugar drinks...
and maybe different herbal teas...
maybe stress management, like meditation, breathing exercises.. and regular exercises, like taking walks...


hugs

Quote from: Mari on September 06, 2015, 05:38:02 AM
Hi everyone

It's been nearly 3 months since i last wrote about my situation regarding excess hair and sebum. In the meantime I've had my DHT measured and had a level of 310 pg/ml while the reference range the lab provided is 40 - 220.
So my doctor started me on Proscar (finasteride) 1/2 tablet, while Androcur was reduced to 1/2 tablet daily.
Now its been little over 2 months that i started finasteride and one month since i reduced Androcur.
In the meantime i haven't noticed any change in sebum production on excess hair, but during the last few weeks i've noticed my hair becomes greasy more quickly, and hair on my arms became even more noticable. Also, I've noticed those very fine hairs on my stomach and chest becoming more noticeable.

Now i am even more worried, because it seems finasteride isn't helping and the reduction of dosage of androcur brought on even more problems. How fast does finasteride work? Is there any way to fight body hair and excessively oily skin rather than with large dosage of Androcur?
Any input from anyone who has had similar problem is very much appreciated.
Thank you all 

My apologies for resurrecting this thread, but I think it is of some importance.

Marie, if you still read this one day: it takes a long time for the body to adjust, just as much as it did when you first transitioned. So a couple of months seems to be correct. Overproduction happens as a response, just as hypersensitivity and anxiety is a response of the nervous system when it encounters a new substance like an anti-androgen, or even other medicines for that matter.

So I just wonder how you are doing right now? maybe it can be of help to others as well.

Thanks.