Sarah, there is also the obligation of the person who 'feels badly' to consider why the statement makes them feel that way. Not all the problem derives from the other's POV. A good bit may be due to my internal reaction that something she says might be making my own position look in some way 'bad.'

N~

I had a feeling this topic might get heated.
I didn't think it would get this heated.

I meant it as a way for people to discuss their feeling arround this particular frustraion that exists for some people and as a way for those involved to adress the needs of all involved.

It didn't realy turn out that way.

I'm sorry.

I didn't mean it for this.

It seems that this sort of subject is best avoided rather than brought up.

If we focus on differences, then that is what we see.

If we focus on what we have in common, then that is also what we see.

I wish we could hammer out our differences so that we would have less so.

But, as I myself have forgotten, peoples differences don't depend on logic on all sides.

Which makes it a little difficult to have a logical discussion for any of it.

Oh well. My bad.

That sucks.  *sigh* Labels bring up big issues don't they?

The subject is now on my blacklist.

I don't mind if we lock this thread. If someone wants to keep it open, then fine, but Please, please be respectful of other peoples differences of opinion. there is no good in fighting. We can't make the other person see as we do. or even understand.

I ought to have known better when I posted this. It seems I didn't with regard to this. But that's Ok. I do now. I learned my lesson. eeouch! LOL

Anyway. Perhaps we should just change the subject!
New Topic: Why flowers are Pretty! LOL

Sara

I think the problem comes Sarah, because you think we are similar than we really are.

I think, being a TS, is a truly week uniting point.
I think that there are many communities of opinions under the TS label, and these can
devellop a somewhat common response to the world.

But, there is no such thing as a TS worldview
and trying to hammer us all in the wrong shaped hole won't work.

What lesson have you thought you learned Sarah?

N~

I will respond to this in a new thread.

Didnt think this topic would get heated? who are you kidding?

QuoteIt's not a matter of right or wrong Racheal.
You completely misunderstand.

It's a matter of consequences.

"Right" is not at issue here.

Did you read some of the responses of people who feel as I do?

Try and put yourself in their shoes.

Use a little empathy

The "freedom of speach" excuse does not mean that speach has no consequences.

People can express themselves however they want.

I can call a cop an ass if I want.

I may get a ticket for "litering" though.

If you don't understand why saying that the way some people do angers some people, and why saying it differently might not, I'm not going to explain it to you.

"Right" is irrelevant. You want to piss people off? Go ahead.

You don't have to understand why, it pisses people off to respect that it does.


It has nothing to do with freedom of expression.

That has been clarified over and over again by different people in this thread.

It has to do with how that particualar statement makes people feel.

actually, its not freedom of speech, its freedom of feeling....
i am allowed to say what i want about MYSELF, you can say what you like about YOURSELF... when you start telling me how im supposed to feel about myself, and that i cannot express my feelings, you are doing the exact same oppressing and pissing off as you are currently blaming others of...
i dont WANT to put myself in the shoes of someone who identifies as a transexual, or transexual man or woman. im in my own shoes, and thier bloody comfy thanks!
id love to know WHAT pisses people off about someone saying how they are?
if you dont like it, sorry, but its my right to say that. I am a girl. whats so angering? and annoying? seriously id love to know, because all youve done so far, is tell us how much you hate it?
if this is some 'im preop and thier postop/ i cant pass, and they can pass. cisgender privilage jelousy thing, which i highly suspect it is, your the one with issues, not those who can move on from the trans community.
technically you can call a cop an ass, but its very unwise to do so, considering there doing thier job FOR you...


You know something? PEOPLE AREN'T THE SAME...
people are different, think differently, feel differently all around the world. Just because we share a medical problem, doesnt mean we will all think the same...
does every diabetic share the same world view?
R

I think it even more than freedom of feeling, as feelings are private - unseen and unknown by others.  Its freedom of expression, freedom of conscientious, and at times the greatest freedom of all, the freedom to make a mistake now and again.

And anyone who would walk up to someone who in my town has a Sig-Sauer P226 chambered for .357 rounds laying there on their hip is most likely not in their right mind.

Quote from: tekla on January 12, 2008, 04:52:56 PM
I think it even more than freedom of feeling, as feelings are private - unseen and unknown by others.  Its freedom of expression, freedom of conscientious, and at times the greatest freedom of all, the freedom to make a mistake now and again.

And anyone who would walk up to someone who in my town has a Sig-Sauer P226 chambered for .357 rounds laying there on their hip is most likely not in their right mind.

Do they all carry Sigs? Or do some of them carry Glocks?
Sara

SF cops are all Sig as standard issue, uniform uniforms, uniform weapons also.  That way they all have the same ammo.  That came about a few years ago when they got into a shoot out where they were out-gunned, and could not share ammo either.

Ah, that makes sense.
"throw me a clip! I'm out!" > "I've only got 9mm!" > "Crap! do you have a stun gun?"
LOL
Sara

Still, I'm suprised they took the Sig though... .357 is a big calliber, especially for the smaller cops. Hard to handle.

Its my understanding that they got some sort of deal from military surplus somehow.  But the two cops I'm close to love the Sig.  And, in the big city, with gang bangers who use full auto weapons, they want something with some 'stopping power.'

Maybe they should shoot two tazer's at a time, or even carry Big ass capacitors with live wires sticking out of them :-) (that's a lot worse than a tazer), think that'd stop anyone HAHA.

OR maybe stop derailiing the topic your loosing with gun talk?
btw, its also not a 226 when 357 (229)

handguns have nothing to do with this topic. and i do actually agree its about freedom of feeling. As everyone in the world has the right to having thier feelings respected. And i think its time some of you leanred that, because one day, you will disregard someones feelings, who has a gun, or other weapon, who isnt a cop, and who WILL use it on you. and it will be your own fault....
R

EDIT:
Altered the title.

now this topic makes even LESS sense....
R

Well, not everything makes sense, and its a good thing.  So 'ya answer the question as best you understand it and move on, or you don't answer it.  Conversations, which the best threads are, go hither, dither and yon in real life and on the web also.  Sometimes, some of the most interesting aspects are in the tangent and not the vector.  If nothing else I now have something new to harass Officer H and Officer A with, and that's aways fun.  Being a Beretta babe myself (a 'chick gun' as Officer A calls it) I'm not conversant with the S-S line.

But I've found all the responses to be interesting and enlightening, particularly for those of us who are TG, but not exactly GID, so its good to know what other people think who are on a different path.

Quote from: tekla on January 13, 2008, 02:48:28 PM
Well, not everything makes sense, and its a good thing.  So 'ya answer the question as best you understand it and move on, or you don't answer it.  Conversations, which the best threads are, go hither, dither and yon in real life and on the web also.  Sometimes, some of the most interesting aspects are in the tangent and not the vector.  If nothing else I now have something new to harass Officer H and Officer A with, and that's aways fun.  Being a Beretta babe myself (a 'chick gun' as Officer A calls it) I'm not conversant with the S-S line.

But I've found all the responses to be interesting and enlightening, particularly for those of us who are TG, but not exactly GID, so its good to know what other people think who are on a different path.

Beretta?
Did you get the Px4?

I want one of those. 

Quote from: tekla on January 13, 2008, 02:48:28 PM
Well, not everything makes sense, and its a good thing.  So 'ya answer the question as best you understand it and move on, or you don't answer it. 

I think the issue is that its still about "becoming" a woman.  The only TSs that become women transitioned as young girls.  Rachel probably said it, or at least should of, if transition is about "becoming a woman", then you don't have GID.

quite....

and tekla, discussions have to make SOME sense... repeatedly changing her topic wont make this make any more sense...

and sure, if this is about BECOMING female, you shouldn't be transitioning in the first place...

I identify as female, because its how ive always felt. from being little to this very sleep morning ><  if i wasnt 100% girl i wouldnt transition... it costs to much!
R

All of life is only a process of becoming and being.  For some its early, others late.  After all, not everyone here had the choices at 20 that you do.  Others I know money was never an issue.  I don't know why some people wake up at 40 and suddenly think it.  But I know it happens.  For me, the way I am is what I was long ago.  I found a way to deal with it, and make it work for me.  The HRT/SRS was not really an option in the early 70s.  I found a different way, that might not work for others, but its been good to me more or less.  But I never had to fight about it, nor was I ever abused about it, so a more gentle way was possible.  In being me I found more power then in just being just Yin or just Yang.

You have to play the game with the cards your dealt, and where you are + what time you are there make a huge difference.  Denial is a pretty powerful thing too for some.  But it runs out, and I feel for those who come upon it (or it comes upon them) late in life.  Must be one hell of an adjustment.