So yeah I feel extremely guilty for being what I am; a trans guy. But why exactly? Well, my mom named me after this old 1970s movie that was recently (and beautifully) remade about fictional African American female Motown singers. My mom was emotionally moved by this movie, I believe, because it mirrored her own personal struggles as a young black woman growing up in the Motown era of Detroit urging herself to become a great singer in a group among friends that unfortunately and tragically never came into fruition.

So what is a mother to do that did not attain her own goals in her youth; she names her "daughter" after a movie through which she saw her dream of becoming the greatest singer being saved. I cry at the thought that I have destroyed her ambitions, hopes and dreams of a gorgeously, well-put together daughter whose singing voice is beyond even that of angels. I wish, even for a minute, that I could be the girl she and my father always wanted. I'm sorry I failed you, Mom and Dad. You guys, no matter what, I really do not want to be transgender. I really don't. Please do not be angry with me for not truly wanting this. But I will strive to begin loving myself for what and who I am, regardless.

Even if you weren't trans, that's an awful lot to put on a little girl. Your dreams are YOUR dreams. No parent should expect their kids to live out their unfulfilled dreams. I'm with you on the trans thing, though. None of us chooses this. No sane person would, not in this society.

My mum (who died when I was 7) really wanted a girl after having my brother and luckily had me. I dealt and still do but to a much lesser degree; with guilt because it turned out I'm not a girl. I also ruined her vision of the perfect family by having one son and one daughter. I know if she were alive today she wouldn't be able to really accept me being trans because of this and because she was quite conservative. The best I can do is count my blessings that I'm quite feminine because at least that's a compromise and try to live the best life I can. Like Dee said we shouldn't live out our parents unfulfilled dreams. We need to be our own person.

Btw; unrelated but how did the meeting with your dad and your therapist go? I know it was some time ago but I kept thinking and hoping you're doing better now. Although I heard from your previous post what you recently had to go through

Quote from: Elis on June 18, 2016, 06:18:01 AM
My mum (who died when I was 7) really wanted a girl after having my brother and luckily had me. I dealt and still do but to a much lesser degree; with guilt because it turned out I'm not a girl. I also ruined her vision of the perfect family by having one son and one daughter. I know if she were alive today she wouldn't be able to really accept me being trans because of this and because she was quite conservative. The best I can do is count my blessings that I'm quite feminine because at least that's a compromise and try to live the best life I can. Like Dee said we shouldn't live out our parents unfulfilled dreams. We need to be our own person.

Btw; unrelated but how did the meeting with your dad and your therapist go? I know it was some time ago but I kept thinking and hoping you're doing better now. Although I heard from your previous post what you recently had to go through

Hi Elis. Been a while hasn't it? So your preferred pronouns are they/their now? Ok. I'll do my darnest to remember. And if I ever slip up and refer to you incorrectly, please don't hesitate to check me.

With that being said, let me say that I'm sorry you lost your mom at such a young age. I think life can be really unfair to us sometimes, but maybe it is to make us into stronger individuals. I don't know why this type of stuff has to happen to many of us, but it does. I am glad you managed to appreciate yourself without anyone else's input, even from your own parents. Though I am very sorry to hear you say that your mother would have found your current gender inacceptable. That's what I want to accept myself. I want to be able to accept that my parents find my gender inacceptable no matter what I do so I can stop stressing over this. I guess I got kinda sad listening to the exquisitely skillful soundtrack of that movie about the Motown girls.

Oh, by the way, Elis, that appointment with my therapist and my dad went...ok, I guess. Yeah my dad still calls me by my dead name but I think I planted a seed in his heart that may someday bloom in the most precious way. Like a couple of days ago, he actually used the term "LGBT" in reference to the awful Orlando shootings as of late. My mouth wanted so much to drop to the floor! Until that day, he was in much denial of those type of folks even existing, at the therapist appointment he even admitted that he knows my identity is transgender and that it is not a phase. But he still refuses to address me as I would like because he doesn't want any part of it.

That's ok. I think I see why he is doing this. My dad really does love and care about me but he is having a very hard time letting go of the perception he has had of me since I was in my mom's tummy. It's like I am slowly killing his "baby girl." I can't imagine how traumatizing this must be for him. I wish he could really see that I cannot control this, just like he can't control who he is as a cis, heterosexual man. But I love my dad, no matter what. I've done terrible things to the man that could be helped mostly because of his lack of support and acceptance of my transsexuality. However, I have come to a realization that I do not have the authority to force my father, or anyone else for that matter, to accept this sorta femme-boyish man that I really am when he or others very close to me have known me as a very tomboyish masculine female for much of my young life.

Hope all is going well for you, Elis!

I'm the only AFAB in five children, and i often feel like my parents resent me for 'taking away' their only 'girl'. I'm also one of only three AFAB grandchildren in my family out of 12, so i'm going to encounter this problem from my grandparents too. There's also the issue that after i had a lot of issues in highschool, i managed to get a degree (which none of my brothers have) and so my parents thought I was 'sorted' and kind of 'done'. But then i come out and become all stress enduing and problematic again. :) It's not a fun way to feel but i know that if i went back into the closet, they wouldn't be getting the girl they wanted then either, and i hope some day that they figure that out too.

As for the names thing, some guys keep a 'genderswapped' or neutral version of their birth name as a middle name. i've kept one of my middle names unchanged, because i like it - and because my name's so long that that middle name used to be dropped from all but the most official documents for lack of space! It's usually a femme name but it's really an adjective so i feel like it's neutral :P Maybe you could keep some version of your birthname as a middle name as a token for your parents?

I'm told by most parents they'd love their kid no matter what gender it turned out to be, so in a sense you'd hope they'd still love their child even after transition. A child is your offspring no matter what, and no matter the gender.

I try to tell myself that there's no reason to be guilty. Why should anyone object to someone's gender change? Aside from a modified appearance and (hopefully) an improved level of happiness, they are still the same person. What is the big deal? Why would anyone object to happiness? I tell myself this and then balk at every turn for the usual reasons. The Human mind for all its wonders is often too smart for its own good.

Quote from: Peep on June 18, 2016, 12:22:45 PM
I'm the only AFAB in five children, and i often feel like my parents resent me for 'taking away' their only 'girl'. I'm also one of only three AFAB grandchildren in my family out of 12, so i'm going to encounter this problem from my grandparents too. There's also the issue that after i had a lot of issues in highschool, i managed to get a degree (which none of my brothers have) and so my parents thought I was 'sorted' and kind of 'done'. But then i come out and become all stress enduing and problematic again. It's not a fun way to feel but i know that if i went back into the closet, they wouldn't be getting the girl they wanted then either, and i hope some day that they figure that out too.

As for the names thing, some guys keep a 'genderswapped' or neutral version of their birth name as a middle name. i've kept one of my middle names unchanged, because i like it - and because my name's so long that that middle name used to be dropped from all but the most official documents for lack of space! It's usually a femme name but it's really an adjective so i feel like it's neutral Maybe you could keep some version of your birthname as a middle name as a token for your parents?

Hi Peep. It's good hearin' from you. Hope things are getting better for ya with your family. It must be very tough being the only person that is AFAB in the family. Now I kinda know how my lesbian cousin feels on my mom's side after she came out. It feels really lonely and like I am a fugitive on the run. Like I committed some terrifying crime, when all I did is show myself and everyone who I am on the inside and out.

By the way, Peep, could you remind me what AFAB means? I forget sometimes! Sorry, it's just so many terms in our world and I want to be sure I know what it means and all.

And also, yeah I am gonna keep a variation of my first name as a middle name. I still feel kinda bad because I am planning on dropping not only my original middle name but also my last name in favor of a completely new one because my family really does not want anything to do with me and it symbolizes a new beginning of life for me. But I agree with you about keeping a part of that name (the first one at least) as a token of thanks to my mom. You know, I don't hate my deadname at all, but it just doesn't fit me. For a person who identifies as a woman or extremely effeminate man I think it's very fitting, but no, not me.

Quote from: T.K.G.W. on June 18, 2016, 04:11:18 PM
I'm told by most parents they'd love their kid no matter what gender it turned out to be, so in a sense you'd hope they'd still love their child even after transition. A child is your offspring no matter what, and no matter the gender.

Hey T.K.G.W. Hope you're doing great too. Yeah, that's an awesome point you brought up. I think the parents that say that never think even for a second that their soon-to-be baby "boy" or baby "girl" could be transgender. I mean,  you're so right because it's like they contradict themselves in the worst way to say, "Oh, I will love and support my kid no matter what they turn out to be." But a kid/teen/adult transitioning into a gender aside from what they were assigned at birth is not a scenario that many expect. Like I don't think many parents expect their kids to be born sick with illness or even dead, so I guess that is how my dad is looking at all this.

To him, it's like this weird guy is taking his "daughter" away from him, when in reality, I am his offspring no matter what. Just like you said, T.K.G.W. To be honest, I know my dad won't ever accept me but I have not come to grips with this reality yet. It's like a part of me is wishing, hoping and praying that he will. I am slowly learning that I can't force him to. He will have to on is own if he can. I only wish even for a moment that he accepted the man in me.

Quote from: Semira on June 18, 2016, 04:43:54 PM
I try to tell myself that there's no reason to be guilty. Why should anyone object to someone's gender change? Aside from a modified appearance and (hopefully) an improved level of happiness, they are still the same person. What is the big deal? Why would anyone object to happiness? I tell myself this and then balk at every turn for the usual reasons. The Human mind for all its wonders is often too smart for its own good.

Hey Semira. Yeah when it boils down to it, transitioning is really for being able to even function which some pre-trans people can barely do. It sickens me that some parents of trans children would have rather their kids kill themselves than disgrace their so-called family by becoming themselves and being happy because of it instead of living a lie. I mean, I am not religious but lots of religious people like to quote the Bible to stab us in the heart for who we are. Well, we would be like, the biggest liars of all, if we continued to stay in that closet.

But some of you on Susan's, across the whole globe, have no choice but to do so, whether for safety or even ethical reasons. The thing is that I can't get over that my parents, as well as many others, do not want their kid being happy from transitioning. Like, after all the suicide attempts and even after my recent stay at the psych ward for threatening to end my life after another disapproval for hormones, you'd think my dad would understand my hurt but he is a very conservative, ex-military guy so I guess realistically that is merely a wish.

Quote from: T.K.G.W. on June 18, 2016, 04:11:18 PM
I'm told by most parents they'd love their kid no matter what gender it turned out to be, so in a sense you'd hope they'd still love their child even after transition. A child is your offspring no matter what, and no matter the gender.

Ha my mom literally cried when my younger brother was born. She already had "two girls" but no, the third child had to be female too. It was pretty funny actually, the nurses and my dad avoided telling her for a few hours. Keep in mind, my mom was one of those people who tried to live her life through me and my sister. I squashed that dream as soon as my middle school brain understood it's full extent.

Back to the main topic though, I didn't ever feel "guilty" about being trans (other things before, yes). I've had to fight my mom on everything I did that wasn't what she wanted (getting a hair cut and job, wearing normal clothes that weren't "dresses", etc), so by the time I realized I was trans, I already stopped caring about pleasing her.
It sucks that parents push things on their kids. It's one thing to have hopes and dreams, but to flat out dictate or plan how they are going to be is another. I'm glad your goal is to love yourself for who you are King Phoenix, it's a shame you've had to choose between living up to family expectations and your life though. I'm glad your dad seems to be coming around or at least putting the effort into understanding you. I've always thought that if someone is willing to try, then there is always some hope for them. Good luck.

Quote from: King Phoenix on June 18, 2016, 09:08:33 PM
By the way, Peep, could you remind me what AFAB means?.....but lots of religious people like to quote the Bible to stab us in the heart for who we are......Like, after all the suicide attempts and even after my recent stay at the psych ward for threatening to end my life after another disapproval for hormones, you'd think my dad would understand my hurt but he is a very conservative, ex-military guy so I guess realistically that is merely a wish.

I'm not Peep, but from what I can gather it means "assigned female at birth" (have to love Google ) Link for other variations: http://askanonbinary.tumblr.com/post/23213059152/hey-what-does-dmabdfab-mean
My dad used to be a Marine and both my parents are conservative/religious. I really don't think they will ever come to terms with any of it. As long as I can do what I need to do, it's there problem if they want to remain in the dark. The fact that I chose an eating disorder to destroy my female body didn't click with them either, they think the only reason eating issues happened was "because I have anxiety" and "lots of girls have them". When my mom kept pushing for me to date a guy and I told her I was asexual, she said that God put us on the earth to reproduce. That's not even in the bible from what I can recall, but that put an end to me saying anything else about lgbt* to my family. As long as they aren't kicking you out, I vote to stay on a separate ship in the same ocean. Do your thing, just don't get them involved as much as possible.

Edit: Apologies for the length, I didn't intend for my reply to turn out this long

Yeah it just feels better saying the only AFAB child than the only girl! Especially as I don't know what my younger assigned-male brothers or cousins' gender identities might be lol

Ah, so that is what AFAB means? Thanks Semira and Peep for clearing that up. 

I'm trying so hard to ignore my guilt. It's as fresh as ever and draining my energy like a vampire sucking out my blood. I don't really intend to crush my mom and dad, but I just happened to turn out in a way that was unexpected of them, I guess. I want to dissociate from my family completely once I obtain absolute independence. For now, I have to deal with this guilt until one day I realize, fully, that I don't need anyone's approval to be happy.

And, I wouldn't say my mom tried to dictate or direct my life exactly. She would just imply or hint in random sentences to me during some of our conversations of old, that, "I'm going to be a great singer," or "I'm going to have a handsome husband with two beautiful children," as if she were a prophetess telling me my future in the name of God or something. And, Semira, I think in the Bible, God does tell Adam and Eve to "go forth and multiply," but I could be wrong.

That basically is the same as what your mom was saying. Even so, that's no excuse to force your kid into something they do not want. That right there is selfish as hell. Most, but not all, parents really are. Even though I know this, I still am feeling guilty. I know I shouldn't let anyone else's expectations of me get me down, but I just can't help it I guess. I know one day I will be strong enough to overpower my guilt like many of you have. I'll get there. I know I will.

The only way you will ever get rid of that guilt is to adjust your moral compass by realizing that no one owns your life but you.  God gave you your life.  He did not give it to your parents.  If they have certain expectations of you, learn where the boundary lines are drawn.  It is okay for them to expect you to get educated, get a job, have a career, have a family.

Unless you plan to join a street gang, it is not okay for them to tell you what to do for your education or career.

It is not okay for them to tell you to marry someone of the opposite gender, to tell you what gender to be, to tell you what to do with your appearance as long as you are not violating the law.  It is also not okay for them to tell you what kind of family to have.

I let my father run my life from the time I was small.  He loaded me up with fear, shame and guilt, and told me how to get educated, what to do for a living, what to do for a career, and he literally forced me off of one career path and onto another.  He decided that I would date girls as a teen and women as an adult, marry a woman, have children, and he never asked if that was okay with me.

As a result, I ended up struggling to be successful with a life that was not mine and was not meant to ever be mine, while my body suffered an onslaught of stress related illnesses.  It finally ended in my late forties when a stroke shut my father up for good.  I spent the next five years having fights with him inside my head and asking myself who the h*ll I was, and I ended up here.

I've been on hormones for two weeks now, and I know greater peace than I have known since I hit puberty.

I tried things my father's way for fifty years.  Although it gave him some nasty good bragging rights with his relatives, it brought me nothing but pain and sorrow.  And at the end of the day, my life is mine.  So I am keeping the rest of it for myself.

You owe it to your parents to be successful.  You do not owe it to them to let them define your success.

Quote from: King Phoenix on June 19, 2016, 06:28:45 PM
I want to dissociate from my family completely once I obtain absolute independence. For now, I have to deal with this guilt until one day I realize, fully, that I don't need anyone's approval to be happy.
....
And, I wouldn't say my mom tried to dictate or direct my life exactly. She would just imply or hint...as if she were a prophetess telling me my future in the name of God or something. And, Semira, I think in the Bible, God does tell Adam and Eve to "go forth and multiply," but I could be wrong.
That basically is the same as what your mom was saying. Even so, that's no excuse to force your kid into something they do not want. That right there is selfish as hell. Most, but not all, parents really are. Even though I know this, I still am feeling guilty. I know I shouldn't let anyone else's expectations of me get me down, but I just can't help it I guess. I know one day I will be strong enough to overpower my guilt like many of you have. I'll get there. I know I will.

I'm sigsi, but I think that is who you meant? I typed about the bible and reproduction thing yesterday at least, so I'll reply by saying thanks, I forgot about that verse. Being raised in a Christian family, I always interpreted it like God telling them to fill the earth with people as there weren't any. Kind of disturbing from the incest aspect of that, but yeah (Genesis 1:28 was the verse, thanks to Google). My impression was that if a God had an overall "job" for people, it was to spread the news of God (Mark 16:15). The thing that snagged me about reproduction was that some people can't produce kids, be it genetic or age related. I took it as God "recommending" things but not forcing people to do stuff against there will, there was always a choice from what I can recall (or maybe this was just my 6 year old brain being hopeful). I never really payed attention in as I got older though, so I'm not one to go around preaching. I just thought it was funny out of all the things in the world that she could pin the bible against me for, it was giving birth to kids. Especially cause she is one of those people that do not follow what she preaches with everything else.

Back to what you wrote though. At least in my experience, "implying" or "hinting" something is the passive aggressive way of someone telling you what they want you to do. I told my mom since I was 5 that I would have cats, not kids. She said I "just need to find the right guy" and it will all make sense and I will want to have kids etc. She kept that up through the end of high school. I eventually told her I am not ever going to get married to a guy and have kids, and she should start accepting that. But now her excuse is, "God put you on this earth to have kids". She generally will do anything to defend the fact that she is right though, even if her reason doesn't make sense. In turn, I can laugh at this now thinking that she is grasping at all the straws she has left.
It will eventually get to a point where you don't care. It'll bug you to death and drive you crazy until then, but one day you will think "Why did that bother me?".
Some things still bother me, but most things I can let go. My grandma always says that if my mom keeps this up, one day I'll just not care anymore. What held me back was that I cared more about my family and their happiness than myself, I didn't think I deserved to be happy while they "suffered". The way I see it now, it's their job as a parent to accept their kids and put the kid's happiness/health first. If they ask anything different, then you are correct and they are selfish. And why would someone want to put a selfish person before their own mental health and survival? What makes their selfish desires more valuable or important than your own? (These were meant as rhetorical questions to get thoughts going, don't feel the need to answer them unless you want to reflect off of it).

Quote from: sigsi on June 19, 2016, 11:24:29 PM
  I eventually told her I am not ever going to get married to a guy and have kids, and she should start accepting that. But now her excuse is, "God put you on this earth to have kids".

God put us on the earth to multiply, but then again over-population is destroying the planet The last thing we need is more humans

I don't want kids -- and if I ever changed my mind (unlikely) I would adopt...

Quote from: Peep on June 21, 2016, 09:17:23 AM
God put us on the earth to multiply, but then again over-population is destroying the planet The last thing we need is more humans

I don't want kids -- and if I ever changed my mind (unlikely) I would adopt...

Quote from: Peep on June 21, 2016, 09:17:23 AM
God put us on the earth to multiply, but then again over-population is destroying the planet The last thing we need is more humans

I don't want kids -- and if I ever changed my mind (unlikely) I would adopt...

Yeah I think my main problem with my mom's statement isn't that she is quoting the Bible, it's more that she doesn't follow what she preaches and will make every other excuse she can think of to back up what she says (even if it doesn't make sense). Deep down she has always just wanted me to "be normal", be it with how I presented myself or what activities I chose to do. An example being that art is my life, but she has said that art people aren't normal and that my sister shouldn't hang out with them on multiple occasions. I honestly just think this is another excuse she is trying to use. I've known religious people to quote and misquote the Bible, I just don't think it should be used by anyone to try to control another person's life and decisions.

Otherwise when I was very young (about 4) I used to say that I would adopt. As I got older I realized I didn't want that responsibility though, so yeah. Then there is the over-popluation thing to consider. I just don't think it's necessarily best for every person in this world to give birth to kids, and don't think God would demand everyone to do so these days, but that might just be me.

Disclaimer: No offense was intended in this, this was just my personal viewpoint. I know there isn't a Bible verse to back this up.

You'll get there. It will hurt for a few years... and then you'll burn out your pain receptors on the subject. Finally got there myself when it comes to my own parents.

I guess it took so long for me because I honestly expected more from my parents. They raised me to have high standards - dad always going on about moral integrity and my mother about mutual respect. It only hurt for longer because it took me this long to realize the preachiest people can turn out be the biggest hypocrites.

That and the fact one of them told me they just don't care or feel anything for me or anything that happens in my life, and the other only cares about what I can do for him. That was the magic moment.