I began to realise that I might be a trans boy a few months ago, and from then on I chopped my hair real short and tried to dress as masculinely as possible. It was fine for a bit, but then I began to feel more insecure/self conscious/uncomfortable, and that really threw me off. After all, many of the guys who are transition goals for me are quite masculine, and I styled myself after them (from hair to clothing to mannerisms). Of course it was disconcerting when I couldn't match that; I'm short and scrawny, and I'm pre-T pre-surgery (basically pre-everything), but honestly, shouldn't I feel more and more comfortable the more masculine I got? However - I wasn't.

I began to doubt my entire trans identity because my insecurity/self consciousness and confusion grew, until I began to think I would be better off going "back" to being a "girl," with long hair and more feminine looks (I didn't make a bad looking girl).

Then more recently I realised that I can't really do that either. I still feel like a boy most of the time (however - I'm still figuring some stuff out about myself and that's fine), and I mostly still want to be treated as a boy, and I definitely have various levels of discomfort with my chest and body, etc, and I generally want a male body.

So I tried something else. I don't think I look good with very short hair (really short hair just doesn't go well with my face  I think), so I grew my hair a bit longer for a more androgynous look, stopped trying to fit into any pre-conceived ideas about how trans guys and just men in general are "supposed" to act, and realised that my gender (or at least gender expression) isn't that simple.
I might be a guy, but I'm still quite feminine in some aspects, I don't really fit into the male gender role/gender expression 100% of the time, and I'm not fully comfortable with some things like really short hair.

I'm pretty insecure about how I look and outside judgement in general, and since I don't think I look good at the moment, nor am I out to anyone as trans (everyone sees me as a girl), I'm in this androgynous area, and it's the happiest area I can be at the moment.

The thing is I'm finding it very hard to reconcile my femininity and general gender non-conformity with my trans identity. I feel like I'm a guy, but I don't feel like I'm enough of a guy. Even if I were assigned male at birth, I think I still would struggle with being a more feminine dude. So...does anyone have any thoughts/advice for being a gender non conforming trans guy? Could I possibly be non binary?

It's all causing me quite a lot of insecurities, from not looking as good as I thought I would look with super short hair and a very masculine look, to embracing being more gender non conforming and feeling not male enough, etc. It also gives me a lot of doubt as a trans guy that I'm not fully comfortable being as masculine as possible.

Thank you everyone.

Why do you have to meet any particular standard of what a Real Boy (tm) or a Real Trans Boy(tm) has to be?

There are any number of ways boys can be, so it follows that there are any number of ways for a trans boy to be.

For instance, meet C.J., over at raisingmyrainbow.com .  He's AMAB, and he makes it clear that he's a boy, not a trans girl.  And he likes sparkly dresses, Monster High, princesses, dolls, and girl stuff in general.  His friends are (mostly?) girls, and he's quite girly and proud of it, at least if he's not getting bullied too much at school for it.  Oh, and he is obsessed with RuPaul's Drag Race (ugh!)

A girly boy is still a boy.  As is a girly trans boy.

If you feel, in your heart of hearts, that you are really a boy, then you're a boy.  (And if you want doctors to make your body more boy-like, then you're a (trans) boy who wants medical transition.)

The rest of the stuff doesn't matter.

You can have long hair and be a boy.  You can be un-macho and be a boy.  You can be nurturing and be a boy.  You can wear cute dresses and be a boy (though you might have to do a little explaining to the more clue-deficient )

You can be a boy any way you want to be.

EDIT:

Oh, and if you feel like you're a bit of both, or neither or whatever, then that's who you are.  And  you can have whatever interests or be macho or un-macho or whatever, and it doesn't affect that, either.

The point is for  you to be you.  (Not that that is at all easy, I admit.)

I don't know if i have a lot of advice because I'm also preT and pre surgery, but I also feel like I'm not 100% masc. At first i thought i was non-binary for a while, and I also considered going 'Back' and just being a gender non-conforming 'female' -- but then i realised the only reason to do that was so that I don't have to face the problems associated with being trans and i knew i would still always want T and top surgery.

I don't directly identify as non binary because i don't feel like the femme things that i like are really that big of a deal - like clothes and the mannerisms that come from being socialised as a 'female' -- i think that those things aren't inherently female and so identifying as non-binary again felt like something i was only doing because i thought i had to, not because it was how i really truly felt

my point is that you shouldn't pick up the non-binary label or the trans man label unless you feel it's what fits you or what you feel most comfortable with -- don't let how other people define the labels colour your views on yourself

Thank you both for the insightful replies. It certainly hasn't been easy juggling coming to terms with being trans, and also various gender roles and expectations along the way. I'm trying to give myself more freedom to express myself how I like, whilst still feeling valid in my gender.

One baby step at a time...on a logical note I know that if I'm a guy I'm a guy no matter what I like and how I wish to present or dress, on another note one does feel the pressure of being "manly" enough, or having to prove or justify myself to others and society (or even to myself!)

I'm juggling between the trans male label and the non binary one though. I know it rests upon my own perception of my gender, rather than feeling the need to identify as one or the other due to outside pressures, but it's difficult to isolate myself away from society's expectations and norms. I suppose I need to take some more time to work some of this out   

Quote from: jmyle on June 24, 2016, 09:43:53 PM
I know it rests upon my own perception of my gender, rather than feeling the need to identify as one or the other due to outside pressures, but it's difficult to isolate myself away from society's expectations and norms. I suppose I need to take some more time to work some of this out   

Ooh boy, don't I know what that's like!  That's the story of my life.

It's a little slipperier for me because I don't have a gender identity, just a sense of whether something I'm doing "fits" or not.  Lots of trial and lots of error.  I don't understand it, I have no idea how anyone else could.

Quote from: Asche on June 25, 2016, 09:19:28 AM
Ooh boy, don't I know what that's like!  That's the story of my life.

It's a little slipperier for me because I don't have a gender identity, just a sense of whether something I'm doing "fits" or not.  Lots of trial and lots of error.  I don't understand it, I have no idea how anyone else could.

You're not alone my friend That's true, I find it very hard to pinpoint my gender identity sometimes. It has been many months of trial and error, and although I'm a lot closer to clarity in many aspects than before, there are still some things I need to figure out.

Of course, maybe over time I'll find increased confidence and comfort in my gender, and stop caring so much about fitting into all these "shoulds" and norms in my mind. Best of luck to you.

Hi, hope nobody minds me joining in the conversation!

At the end of the day, you are who you are, and only you can say what your true gender is based on how you feel about it. Trans male and non-binary are ways of feeling about gender, not images you choose to present, so only you can say which best fits you (or if you'd prefer something else).

I am a binary trans guy who has long hair, wears makeup, high heels and sparkly, colourful clothes. I'm a glam rock fanatic and a deep believer that men have the right to be fancy just as much as women do. I am male because I feel male and have a masculine personality. I am trans because I want to physically/medically transition. I don't look stereotypically masculine but that doesn't change who I am. Masculine and feminine qualities are all just dictated by society, change all the time and vary massively from culture to culture, so just be what you want and explain later is my general attitude.

I'm probably coming across very confident here, while what I'm saying should be perfectly acceptable, the truth is that it's not for a lot of people. I experience loads of criticism and disbelief of my identity, particularly as a younger person, but I still think it's important to be an individual and present yourself however you feel comfortable. Going against the stereotypes isn't easy, but it is worth doing if it makes you happier.

Hope this helped, if only to show that you're not the only one in your position, and good luck!

As a trans woman who struggled with this alot myself because I'm far from comfortable with a feminine presentation, I can relate to some degree. What I've concluded is that how your comfortable presenting doesn't compromise your identity. Do what makes you happy and don't feel pressured to conform if it moves you away from that

Quote from: karmatic1110 on July 02, 2016, 02:58:22 PM
As a trans woman who struggled with this alot myself because I'm far from comfortable with a feminine presentation, I can relate to some degree. What I've concluded is that how your comfortable presenting doesn't compromise your identity. Do what makes you happy and don't feel pressured to conform if it moves you away from that

Totally this. Your presentation is up to you and uniquely yours.

As a trans woman i sometimes feel expectations creeping in and try to stifle it. I dress fairly feminine in a tomgirl sort of way , and have a pretty femme shape, but i am in no hurry to laser or zap remains of my facial hair, even though i know this is one thing that can really "give me away" (sorry....i sound stupid even using that term i know), i just don't feel like bending to expectations on it at present. This is even though, the rest of me pretty much has to be hairless or i freak out. I have made midnight runs for skintimate shaving cream for heaven's sake.

We each get to find what works for us and run with it.