If one more person uses the 70s to justify putitng off transition, ill scream! ive heard it 50 times in nearly as many posts.....

im not lucky, ive lost my entire family, i only transitioned now because after 3 suicide attempts, i HAD to...or die. Simple as...denial simply didnt cut it.
This is not about how old you are.
you simply cant become something you arnt already, maybe a fairly good copy, but not be it. if you arnt female to start with, you sure as hell cant become one.
R

Quote from: Rachael on January 14, 2008, 02:36:25 AM
and sure, if this is about BECOMING female, you shouldn't be transitioning in the first place...

Not necessarily. You are correct, if one accepts not only a particular view of GID but also a particular meaning for the words become and female. However, that's a big if, and I have a feeling that the main issue here is that different people mean different things when they talk about 'being a woman' or 'becoming female'.

  Nfr

Quote from: Seshatneferw on January 14, 2008, 06:52:35 AM

Quote from: Rachael on January 14, 2008, 02:36:25 AM
and sure, if this is about BECOMING female, you shouldn't be transitioning in the first place...

Not necessarily. You are correct, if one accepts not only a particular view of GID but also a particular meaning for the words become and female. However, that's a big if, and I have a feeling that the main issue here is that different people mean different things when they talk about 'being a woman' or 'becoming female'.

Agreed.

I'm NOT female... otherwise I wouldn't need SRS and HRT to yes, "become female."

I'm NOT a woman either. Not quite. For me to say "I'm a woman" after only 6-9 months of being perceived as a female would be like an eight-year-old girl proclaiming, "I've ALWAYS been a woman inside!" As I mature now as a female, I'll become more and more comfortable with that title. Someone once said that when they told their therapist that they've always felt they're a woman, their therapist challenged her with, "Prove it." That struck a chord for me. For me, "being a woman" is more a product of the Living, not the declaration. The life experiences, moreso than an identity.

But these are my *personal* uses for the terms. I realize others may feel and use them differently.

~Kate~

Nicely done, Nfr & Kate.

'Being a woman' is not said, it is done. I am unaware that anyone becomes a woman without living the life of a woman. My partner was not a woman at age 10 or even at age 16, at least that is what she says.

The uses of language are usually divisive without some generally accepted, and acceptable, notion of what the other is talking about. I think your definitions are rather plain.

N~

Im female. i always have been. who _I_ am, is a 20 yearold female, with a genetal abnormality.

As Dr Jannet Buttler once said, 'One is not born a woman, one BECOMES a woman, and you dont need to start off female to achive that.'

Littlegirl
girl
youngwoman
woman
oldlady, etc,
are status markers, just like boys become men.

I was never a man, i never reached that social distinction, i was raised a boy. That does not change the simple fact that im female. and Transsexual, can be taken as one such social marker. the person is, regardless of being transsexual medically, either a male or female. F2m, or m2f (yes this is a binary topic os its relevant, if your androgyne and disagree go make your own im not trans im a me' topic)
I transitioned. I am a female now, in all but genetals, as we always debate, a woman who elected to ahve a penis made, would still be a woman, (unless thier f2m) the fact i had to artificially trigger my development to some extent. is simply a wonderful miracle of moderne medicine. It means i can outwardly look like me. The whole double layer story... one gender inside, look the other.
I was Born a female, regardless of the state of my genetals at the time, and my current state. I think, act, look, feel, weep, smile, scream, and sing, female. Now tell me why i want to call myself a transsexual, when im clearly female? Preop or post op, the state of my Knickers content is irelevant. How i got here is irelevant. Who i am hasnt changed, and never will. You may find yourself offended that im so secure in who i am. Fine. I dont want you to live my life. ITS MINE!
R

Quotelanguage other than English

English is not the same to different people, especially of different educational backgrounds. The use of and meaning of English in different English speaking cultures varies widely.

I'd be curious to see how this conversation would play out among GGs, in ANY language.

N~

Quote from: redfish on January 14, 2008, 01:11:18 PM

I'm curious as to how much different this conversation would play out in a language other than English.

for a start, natal women wouldnt become women from being trans...

then again. Ive raised this topic with some friends once. Apparently, when you stop being 'weird' and are just a 'regular girl' then your not really a transsexual anymore.... they saw being a 'transsexual' as a social label, as someone who was visibly one gender, presented as the other and was adament that they were that gender. Ie, classic pathetic transsexual. When your 'regular' enough, and pass utterly socially, and visually. Then again, thier only 5 of these socalled 'ggs' the fabeled goddesses of knowlage of all things female....

in all honesty, i doubt the conversation would be much different if they were as versed in the subject as us, if not, like i said above is an example.
R

Well for what it's worth, I don't call myself "trans" even now, before SRS. It's not to be "better than" or deny anything, I just want people to think of me as an individual person, as a "Kate," and not an "it" or category of people. People react VERY differently to being told, "I'm a transsexual" versus "I'm changing my sex and I'm called Kate."

People seem so eager to hinge their identities and justifications on these labels, and then become terrified when they're threatened. Or hurt. Or defensive. Or angry. So personally, I DO want to get away from thinking of myself as a transsexual. And frankly, from even thinking of myself as a woman. Non-TS people don't seem to obsess on these things. They just live their lives and go about their business.

And THAT'S my motivation for transitioning: I just don't want to think about all this gender identity and GID stuff anymore. I'm transitioning to erase that contrast and feel congruent and NOT be perpetually aware of my GID ("I'm a transsexual!") OR my gender identity ("I'm a female darn it!") 24/7 anymore.

~Kate~

I consider myself a woman with a transsexual condition.  Being transsexual is simply the medical term for the condition I have.  Just as I could also be a woman with a diabetic condition.

I never really identified myself as a "transsexual".  I've identified myself as a woman.  When I came out to myself, came out of denial, I finally admitted to myself that I had a transsexual condition.

Even after the surgeries, I will still have the medical condition called transsexuality, but it will be in remission.

And this I think applies to all trans people, it isn't exclusively male or female.

-Sandy (and I'm a damn PROUD woman!)


Sandy, very well said!