So I have decided to settle for being an agender transmasculine queer over an FTM because it is so hard for me to get on T like I want and even if I did, I know on the inside I really don't feel 100% male but definitely not female but something other than that and I have no idea what it is. Is there another way to make gender dysphoria dissipate besides mutilating my body to match up with society's gender standard? If it were up to me, I would look male for the most part but without any sexual characteristics as if through gender nullification. That is what I really want. Now that I think about it, I don't even want a penis anymore. But I never ever wanted a vagina in my life either and I really don't want boobs. I want it all gone. I don't want to be on loads of T or stay the way I am, I want to look as though I have no gender at all because that is how I really feel. I just lean more towards masculinity as far as gender presentation/expression.

Yeah I get the difficulty. I wish we could live in a world where everyone simply used gender neutral pronouns unless a person specifically asks for feminine/masculine pronouns. I don't have the courage to be out as nb. I don't want to out myself as trans to future employers and people won't understand anyway. Plus I wish there was some way to have a penis and female parts (I heard that they don't close up the vagina for a phalloplasty which appeals to me) but I don't want massive scars. I really want my boobs gone though and always have. And I'd prefer looking male but in an androgynous way; I don't want to get really muscular or hairy. I identify as a demiboy (I found the word recently and it fits me perfectly) as I feel 10% agender and the rest male. I may not want to be on T for life but I need it to get rid of my dysphoria.

Not sure what advice to give; just know there are many trans people like you. You may have to compromise and take T to get rid of dysphoria. You're a lot braver than me for living as nb; I have a lot of respect for nb people who can do that.

Quote from: Elis on July 07, 2016, 04:04:19 AM
Yeah I get the difficulty. I wish we could live in a world where everyone simply used gender neutral pronouns unless a person specifically asks for feminine/masculine pronouns. I don't have the courage to be out as nb. I don't want to out myself as trans to future employers and people won't understand anyway. Plus I wish there was some way to have a penis and female parts (I heard that they don't close up the vagina for a phalloplasty which appeals to me) but I don't want massive scars. I really want my boobs gone though and always have. And I'd prefer looking male but in an androgynous way; I don't want to get really muscular or hairy. I identify as a demiboy (I found the word recently and it fits me perfectly) as I feel 10% agender and the rest male. I may not want to be on T for life but I need it to get rid of my dysphoria.

Not sure what advice to give; just know there are many trans people like you. You may have to compromise and take T to get rid of dysphoria. You're a lot braver than me for living as nb; I have a lot of respect for nb people who can do that.

I'm glad to know I am not alone. This is strange. I too just found the word demiboy. I never heard of it until recently. I feel like 10% of me is agender too, while the rest is male. Like I want to also look androgynous with smooth muscles here and there but nothing massive. I don't know if living as nb is really brave. I guess it is what I am and I feel like acting like something else would be even harder on me. Though most people see me as either a butch lesbian or a femme homosexual man. Either way I am not being truly recognized as I am; an nb transmasculine queer. I am not a man nor woman. I am beyond those labels. I feel so lost right now.

Quote from: Tristyn on July 07, 2016, 06:09:46 AM
I'm glad to know I am not alone. This is strange. I too just found the word demiboy. I never heard of it until recently. I feel like 10% of me is agender too, while the rest is male. Like I want to also look androgynous with smooth muscles here and there but nothing massive. I don't know if living as nb is really brave. I guess it is what I am and I feel like acting like something else would be even harder on me. Though most people see me as either a butch lesbian or a femme homosexual man. Either way I am not being truly recognized as I am; an nb transmasculine queer. I am not a man nor woman. I am beyond those labels. I feel so lost right now.

I've heard of the word demiboy before but only looked up the definition the day before yesterday and glad I did. The demiboy flag is my profile pic BTW.  I'm finding it hard at the moment as I feel trapped in the male box and still feel slightly misgendered if people use masculine pronouns for me or simply doesn't feel 'right'. But I feel this time in my life I can put up with people doing so; I wish more than anything to blend into society and go unnoticed. Before T I come off as a butch lesbian and now I think I come across as a gay dude. I'm quite fem in my interests and body language which hinders me from blending in with other men. I have to somehow learn to control that.  Right now I feel lost and still not quite happy as I thought I'd be. I feel slight better now that I've found the demiboy label but still. Guess I'll just have to muddle through. At least I'm no longer seen as female.

Quote from: Elis on July 07, 2016, 07:12:42 AM
I've heard of the word demiboy before but only looked up the definition the day before yesterday and glad I did. The demiboy flag is my profile pic BTW.  I'm finding it hard at the moment as I feel trapped in the male box and still feel slightly misgendered if people use masculine pronouns for me or simply doesn't feel 'right'. But I feel this time in my life I can put up with people doing so; I wish more than anything to blend into society and go unnoticed. Before T I come off as a butch lesbian and now I think I come across as a gay dude. I'm quite fem in my interests and body language which hinders me from blending in with other men. I have to somehow learn to control that.  Right now I feel lost and still not quite happy as I thought I'd be. I feel slight better now that I've found the demiboy label but still. Guess I'll just have to muddle through. At least I'm no longer seen as female.

Wow, Elis, I feel moved by how much you want to 'blend in' with society just to not be stared at or judged. I think I am so much like you. I did not know that demiboy had a flag and it is so befitting of your profile, it really suits you and you are always free to change to whatever label you want as am I. I am beginning to learn that. Indeed, I would not feel 'right' being called a 'he' even after T like you because I just do not feel like a male in that way. I like doing alot of girlie things still and I know that shouldn't matter, but.... it's something about it that makes me not feel all male and if I try to feel all male then I am not being my real self. I am defeating the purpose of being out of the closet. It is not about being a man but about being yourself. Also I like that you chose gender neutral pronouns too. You feel lost as well, even on T. I hope things improve for you and you can figure your way out in this genderized soup. 

Glad to hear that you are at least seen as a guy. That is what I would want as well. And, yeah, I don't think I really want zero sex characteristics after all. I thought I would for a moment last night but when I took my sock out of my boxers, it felt so disgusting and foreign to me that I had to put it back; definitely still want a penis; I have ever since I was 3 or younger. I guess being agender doesn't make me really not want one. It is about gender after all. But I do wonder if I am asexual or not. I fantasize about sex and everything but I don't actually want to have it. Sex sounds exhausting. And I have to work extra hard just to fantasize. It does not come naturally to me. I really don't do it for pleasure. It's like an escape mechanism. So I do wonder if I am asexual and aromantic at the same time; like I have no real desire for sex or relationships like I used to. Sorry for steering away from gender like that but all in all I just would like to have a male appendage that helps me feel ssssooooo much better.

Quote from: Tristyn on July 07, 2016, 10:04:00 AM
Wow, Elis, I feel moved by how much you want to 'blend in' with society just to not be stared at or judged. I think I am so much like you. I did not know that demiboy had a flag and it is so befitting of your profile, it really suits you and you are always free to change to whatever label you want as am I. I am beginning to learn that. Indeed, I would not feel 'right' being called a 'he' even after T like you because I just do not feel like a male in that way. I like doing alot of girlie things still and I know that shouldn't matter, but.... it's something about it that makes me not feel all male and if I try to feel all male then I am not being my real self. I am defeating the purpose of being out of the closet. It is not about being a man but about being yourself. Also I like that you chose gender neutral pronouns too. You feel lost as well, even on T. I hope things improve for you and you can figure your way out in this genderized soup. 

Glad to hear that you are at least seen as a guy. That is what I would want as well. And, yeah, I don't think I really want zero sex characteristics after all. I thought I would for a moment last night but when I took my sock out of my boxers, it felt so disgusting and foreign to me that I had to put it back; definitely still want a penis; I have ever since I was 3 or younger. I guess being agender doesn't make me really not want one. It is about gender after all. But I do wonder if I am asexual or not. I fantasize about sex and everything but I don't actually want to have it. Sex sounds exhausting. And I have to work extra hard just to fantasize. It does not come naturally to me. I really don't do it for pleasure. It's like an escape mechanism. So I do wonder if I am asexual and aromantic at the same time; like I have no real desire for sex or relationships like I used to. Sorry for steering away from gender like that but all in all I just would like to have a male appendage that helps me feel ssssooooo much better.

Thank you for what you said about my profile . I really like how well designed the flag is. I hope you figure things out too.

It's foreign to me you saying you wanted a penis since you were 3. I hadn't even put any thought into my parts at that age. I tried a packer when I realised I was trans but could only wear it in bed; which consequently made me feel worse about my parts because I had to take it out in the mornings; so stopped. I also tried an STP which though made me feel great was a lot of hassle. Before T I didn't really have any bottom dysphoria and now I pretty much have none. Sorry if this seems to be parading how easier I seem to have it; just thought of sharing. I wish it was possible to switch between  a penis and female parts at will. Maybe one day when they invent a really good prosthetic packer.

No need to apologise for steering away from gender. I feel myself to be demisexual. I have absolutely no interest in sex; thinking of it doesn't come naturally to me and I don't understand the obsession. Like you I only enjoy it as a coping mechanism and to get rid of stress. I like it in the moment but afterwards it just makes me feel empty.

Quote from: Elis on July 07, 2016, 10:43:59 AM
Thank you for what you said about my profile . I really like how well designed the flag is. I hope you figure things out too.

It's foreign to me you saying you wanted a penis since you were 3. I hadn't even put any thought into my parts at that age. I tried a packer when I realised I was trans but could only wear it in bed; which consequently made me feel worse about my parts because I had to take it out in the mornings; so stopped. I also tried an STP which though made me feel great was a lot of hassle. Before T I didn't really have any bottom dysphoria and now I pretty much have none. Sorry if this seems to be parading how easier I seem to have it; just thought of sharing. I wish it was possible to switch between  a penis and female parts at will. Maybe one day when they invent a really good prosthetic packer.

No need to apologise for steering away from gender. I feel myself to be demisexual. I have absolutely no interest in sex; thinking of it doesn't come naturally to me and I don't understand the obsession. Like you I only enjoy it as a coping mechanism and to get rid of stress. I like it in the moment but afterwards it just makes me feel empty.

So you would like to be able to have a vagina and a penis? I possibly might feel the same way once I get on T. No, you're not parading anything, Elis. You're sharing how you really feel and that is ok. It's like when I was very young I used to think I would grow a penis. I thought my enlarged labia would turn into one. I tried out on STP and it was alot of trouble even though it did feel better.

I think being able to switch from male to female parts at will would be kind of cool. I think anything is possible. I think it is also cool how you still identify as male and not female even though you want female parts. Gender is so amazingly diverse, isn't it? It's like how I enjoy many effeminate things but do not feel female at all.

I got a silly question but is demisexual the same as asexual? I am really not sure. They sound very akin to one another. Yeah, I totally don't understand why sex is so blown out of proportion the way it is. I really just don't get it. It just seems like one of those things some people do. It's like a football game to me; I don't see what is so exciting about it. It does make a great way to escape, but sometimes it is not even worth the emptiness I also feel once I have finished.

I do really want to look male but not too male. I guess I may have gotten gender identity confused with gender expression. I identify as genderless to an extent, but I honestly do not want to be sexless(without any sexual characteristics). I guess I thought I would have to. I still am fighting against society's gender box and their pressuring expectations. For instance, just because I still like some girly stuff doesn't mean that I have to identify and/or express that in my gender. If that makes any sense.

I think that if I were at least on estrogen blockers, I would feel a sense of completion. My T levels are so  low, it is no wonder I feel so depressed here and there. Out of curiosity, Elis, how were your T levels before you started HRT?

Quote from: Tristyn on July 07, 2016, 02:50:01 PM
So you would like to be able to have a vagina and a penis? I possibly might feel the same way once I get on T. No, you're not parading anything, Elis. You're sharing how you really feel and that is ok. It's like when I was very young I used to think I would grow a penis. I thought my enlarged labia would turn into one. I tried out on STP and it was alot of trouble even though it did feel better.

I think being able to switch from male to female parts at will would be kind of cool. I think anything is possible. I think it is also cool how you still identify as male and not female even though you want female parts. Gender is so amazingly diverse, isn't it? It's like how I enjoy many effeminate things but do not feel female at all.

I got a silly question but is demisexual the same as asexual? I am really not sure. They sound very akin to one another. Yeah, I totally don't understand why sex is so blown out of proportion the way it is. I really just don't get it. It just seems like one of those things some people do. It's like a football game to me; I don't see what is so exciting about it. It does make a great way to escape, but sometimes it is not even worth the emptiness I also feel once I have finished.

I do really want to look male but not too male. I guess I may have gotten gender identity confused with gender expression. I identify as genderless to an extent, but I honestly do not want to be sexless(without any sexual characteristics). I guess I thought I would have to. I still am fighting against society's gender box and their pressuring expectations. For instance, just because I still like some girly stuff doesn't mean that I have to identify and/or express that in my gender. If that makes any sense.

I think that if I were at least on estrogen blockers, I would feel a sense of completion. My T levels are so  low, it is no wonder I feel so depressed here and there. Out of curiosity, Elis, how were your T levels before you started HRT?

That would be the ideal. I may change my mind about not wanting bottom surgery years down the line. It appeals to me to move miles away from where I currently live, have all the surgeries and forget my trans history. But I don't want scars; I don't like the idea of meta personally and will probably miss my female parts.

Not a silly question; asexual comes in many different grey areas I find it difficult to fully understand it. Demisexual means a person has to feel a strong emotional connection to someone before feeling sexual attraction. I can tell someone is attractive but can't imagine having sex with said person. While asexual is were you feel no or very little sexual attraction. And I get what you say about it being as interesting as a football game. To me it's as about as exciting as that or watching paint dry. I'm not sure it's worth the emptiness either but I have nothing else to fill the void.

Yeah that makes sense. You don't have to say you're a fem boy or guy as it may vary on a day to day basis how you want to express your gender. I feel like androgyne doesn't really fit me as I don't really want that complete expression clothes or body wise. Just a bit of it now and again. Demiboy is easier to say.

Unfortunately I didn't think to ask; I was too busy thinking how unreal it was to be given the go ahead. I'll ask next time I'm due for a blood test which will be in Aug. I assume my T levels were normal for a cis female. I wasn't hairy, have hips and had a round face.

Quote from: Elis on July 07, 2016, 03:35:27 PM
That would be the ideal. I may change my mind about not wanting bottom surgery years down the line. It appeals to me to move miles away from where I currently live, have all the surgeries and forget my trans history. But I don't want scars; I don't like the idea of meta personally and will probably miss my female parts.

Not a silly question; asexual comes in many different grey areas I find it difficult to fully understand it. Demisexual means a person has to feel a strong emotional connection to someone before feeling sexual attraction. I can tell someone is attractive but can't imagine having sex with said person. While asexual is were you feel no or very little sexual attraction. And I get what you say about it being as interesting as a football game. To me it's as about as exciting as that or watching paint dry. I'm not sure it's worth the emptiness either but I have nothing else to fill the void.

Yeah that makes sense. You don't have to say you're a fem boy or guy as it may vary on a day to day basis how you want to express your gender. I feel like androgyne doesn't really fit me as I don't really want that complete expression clothes or body wise. Just a bit of it now and again. Demiboy is easier to say.

Unfortunately I didn't think to ask; I was too busy thinking how unreal it was to be given the go ahead. I'll ask next time I'm due for a blood test which will be in Aug. I assume my T levels were normal for a cis female. I wasn't hairy, have hips and had a round face.

Oh, so demisexual you can be sexually attracted but it's with someone you connect with very strongly. I kinda feel like both asexual and demisexual. I guess it is hard to tell because I have never felt any connection like that....well, there is one person. Is it possible that someone can be demisexual and aromantic? When you say strong connection, do you meant falling in love with the person for who they are over what they are? That sounds like me but at the same time, I have never experienced such a connection with anyone enough to be sexually attracted, except maybe with this one person. So hard to tell. Is it possible to be demi-asexual? I feel like that. I would only have sex if in that condition and it would be for pleasing my partner because I don't really feel it necessary for it bringing myself pleasure.

I wish i didn't need to transition to feel like I can function, but I do. I have been told that I could have internal transphobia. Well, it's not surprising after being brainwashed to fear such people, including myself.

Quote from: Tristyn on July 07, 2016, 07:57:48 PM
Oh, so demisexual you can be sexually attracted but it's with someone you connect with very strongly. I kinda feel like both asexual and demisexual. I guess it is hard to tell because I have never felt any connection like that....well, there is one person. Is it possible that someone can be demisexual and aromantic? When you say strong connection, do you meant falling in love with the person for who they are over what they are? That sounds like me but at the same time, I have never experienced such a connection with anyone enough to be sexually attracted, except maybe with this one person. So hard to tell. Is it possible to be demi-asexual? I feel like that. I would only have sex if in that condition and it would be for pleasing my partner because I don't really feel it necessary for it bringing myself pleasure.

I wish i didn't need to transition to feel like I can function, but I do. I have been told that I could have internal transphobia. Well, it's not surprising after being brainwashed to fear such people, including myself.

I don't see why you can't be demisexual and aromantic. A romantics I assume still feel a strong emotional bond with someone but what's the difference between thar and love? I only realised I was demisexual because I was going out with someone and even though I strongly liked them; I felt no sexual attraction whatsoever until a year in.

And I'm also part of the internal trans phobia club. I'm getter better but it's still there.

Quote from: Elis on July 08, 2016, 01:19:58 AM
And I'm also part of the internal trans phobia club. I'm getter better but it's still there.

Oh, you have internal transphobia also? I guess alot of us do. Especially the ones who realize they are trans later in life. I find it to be more prevalent in that population because they seem to have had the most pressure to "be normal," than the ones who transition in their late teens or even during childhood as far as puberty blockers and things like that. I swear the earlier the better because estrogen really damaged me and if I could have blocked it I would not have the amount of psychiatric conditions and deformities I have from it now like these 'breasts'(I like to call them tumors). My theory on lupus, in my case, is that I hate my body so much that I sent a message to my cells to start attacking myself. I know it sounds crazy but that is what lupus does. Like a self hating disease.

Quote from: Tristyn on July 07, 2016, 03:35:40 AM
So I have decided to settle for being an agender transmasculine queer over an FTM because it is so hard for me to get on T like I want and even if I did, I know on the inside I really don't feel 100% male but definitely not female but something other than that and I have no idea what it is. Is there another way to make gender dysphoria dissipate besides mutilating my body to match up with society's gender standard? If it were up to me, I would look male for the most part but without any sexual characteristics as if through gender nullification. That is what I really want. Now that I think about it, I don't even want a penis anymore. But I never ever wanted a vagina in my life either and I really don't want boobs. I want it all gone. I don't want to be on loads of T or stay the way I am, I want to look as though I have no gender at all because that is how I really feel. I just lean more towards masculinity as far as gender presentation/expression.

After decades of trying to suppress or otherwise Not Handle being trans seven years I came to the point in my life that I had to do something... For Real about being trans. After a lot of introspection I saw that that job #1, no matter what route I'd ultimately take, was to figure out how to make these two seemingly disparate aspects of myself live happily inside of me. After two fails at transitioning decades earlier the last thing on my agenda was trying that again. I was and am deep into a "Male" life and lifestyle. My career, to a great deal, depends on the respect for my abilities I earned... as a male. And... OK I don't like the dangly bits but we had some great times together. So no genital dysphoria to speak of.

It takes a lot of hard work to change your insides. It took about 5 years for me to realize the benefits of that effort. No matter how I present I know and feel I am ME, the (almost) total and complete me... minus maybe 20% for presentation. I can live with that compared to otherwise blowing up my life and that of my wife's, my BFF, and reality therapist. 

Elis, there are surgeons who will perform phalloplasty without removing the vagina. It increases the complication rate in a lot of cases, but many of them will still do it if that is what the patient wants. Don't want to derail, but wanted to pop in and let you know that

I've read parts of these posts, but not all of them as of yet. I saw a few parts mentioning aromantic and demisexual, so I thought I would leave this here just in case it helps anyone (it helped me a while back).

http://www.asexuality.org/wiki/index.php?title=Lexicon
There is also more stuff on the sidebar under "content".