Quote from: Ritana on June 15, 2016, 12:21:44 PM
This  is such a sad and unfortunate vfs experience. I would never have undergone vfs had I read this story. Luckily mine didn't result in anything close to this.

My heart goes out to you, Kwala. I will keep my fingers crossed for you so you can regain your voice hun.

Ritana

Thanks so much for your support, and believe me, I am so happy you didn't have to go through anything like this.   As painful as it is, I think it's important for me to share this so future candidates for vfs know that even with modern methods there are still major risks.

Kwala... I am so sorry.

My heart goes out to you... I don't know how you must be feeling right now, but please don't give up. I am sure there's a way we can get your voice back.



Have you thought about emailing Yeson and seeing what their thought is on the subject? Even Dr. Remarcle or other VFS doctors might have an idea of what is happening?

Audree

I guess right now all you can do is wait and check your options. Any surgeon will tell you it has to be seen what healing occurs now and a full assessment or corrective surgery will require for the healing to be completed - so at least 8 weeks post OP, I believe, maybe at4 weeks one can at least analyze endoscopic pictures and videos and see how it develops and make a prediction. I think you can probably send pictures, videos and voice recordings to Dr Kim and Dr Thomas to see what they say, but you would need a local ENT to do stroboscopic endoscopic videos you can then send. Otherwise I guess you would have to travel to get an assessment, but I would definitely wait for a couple of weeks for that, otherwise you are booking a flight and have costs and then the examination is not successfull because it is too early to say anything. I wish you the best and hope you get a good voice again.

Time for an update.  I was finally able to see a true specialist today, to whom I had been referred by other notable ENT'S in the area.  There's good and bad news.  The good news is he feels strongly that he can return my voice to normal.  The bad news (back to normal, like before surgery) really isn't sounding that bad.  I've said it before and I still feel that having ANY voice is preferable to what I have now.  I'm basically going to need two surgeries, one to remove the web and put keels in place to make sure it doesn't reform, and a second surgery several weeks later to simply remove the keels.  He said that no doubt scarring has occurred but my voice should get its volume back and the hoarseness should at the very least be much less severe and in the best case scenario, completely gone.  There is a part of me that's sad to see the web go, just because it was something I wanted so badly.  A sure-fire, automatic way to keep my pitch in the right place.  Dr. Haben somehow managed to make this web too large, however, and even his attempt to "lessen" it was a complete failure.  Two strikes, and I'm not going back for a third. Of course, the thought had entered my mind to ask about only a partial removal, but trying the same thing twice would be foolish, I believe, so the whole thing has to go.  It's sad to think about how much time and money I've lost, but I'm ready for this to be over and just have a voice that's actually usable, regardless of how it is perceived.

Thats so sad... but I understand that you had enough of this - especially it costs money every time... I hope you can at least get your old voice back without too much damage.

Quote from: anjaq on July 13, 2016, 03:27:55 PM
Thats so sad... but I understand that you had enough of this - especially it costs money every time... I hope you can at least get your old voice back without too much damage.

Thank you!  I'm sad to not be joining the club of ladies with successful glottoplasties and beautiful feminine voices but if this works out and I can at least speak normally again I'll take it!

Quote from: kwala on July 13, 2016, 08:33:37 PM
Thank you!  I'm sad to not be joining the club of ladies with successful glottoplasties and beautiful feminine voices but if this works out and I can at least speak normally again I'll take it!

For what it's worth, I thought your pre- and post-VFS voices were great, but as with all surgeries you, yourself, have to be totally satisfied with them. Hopefully you'll get the voice you want in the end. My surgery is next week. Hopefully things will go right this time.

Quote from: GeekGirl on July 13, 2016, 08:40:55 PM
For what it's worth, I thought your pre- and post-VFS voices were great, but as with all surgeries you, yourself, have to be totally satisfied with them. Hopefully you'll get the voice you want in the end. My surgery is next week. Hopefully things will go right this time.

Thank you!  I am really hoping that I can regain the voice I worked on before this mess started.  As for my post op voice, I was able to make it sound decent in a few recordings, but what you can't tell over the Internet is how very very softly I had to speak to get it that way.  I wish that I were able to use my current voice in public but the minute I try to speak up, all hell breaks loose.  Many ENT'S now have assured me that this isn't something therapy can fix, there simply isn't enough vibration in my vocal cords to produce audible sound in any kind of real world setting.

Best of luck with your surgery.  I sincerely wish you a good result!

How much of the vocal folds did you "loose" in the surgery? I know Dr Kim als most of the others aim at reducing them by 30-50% - did you get a bigger reduction then because of the scarring? Its kind of odd because most people rather have to take care that the web or suture is not coming loose, while yours oddly formed even further. Did you have pictures taken of the vocal folds?

Quote from: anjaq on July 14, 2016, 04:22:50 AM
How much of the vocal folds did you "loose" in the surgery? I know Dr Kim als most of the others aim at reducing them by 30-50% - did you get a bigger reduction then because of the scarring? Its kind of odd because most people rather have to take care that the web or suture is not coming loose, while yours oddly formed even further. Did you have pictures taken of the vocal folds?

I have a few photos, can upload later after work.  The web is definitely over more than 50% of the cords. After the first surgery, Dr. Haben estimated that it was close to 70% (of course this is just conjecture, no actual measurements were taken).  In the pictures that I've seen since the operation to "trim" it, it appears virtually the same size to my eyes.  It is pretty interesting that in so many cases people end up with a web that is too small to make a noticeable difference or a web that never forms and here I am with this gargantuan web that makes speech nearly impossible.

It's unclear to me whether the web ended up so large because of granulation tissue or whether I was just plain stitched too high.

I have been thinking about this for the last day or so and a though crossed my mind. I do a fair amount to works with my hands and receive the normal nasty collection of booboos to my hands. Not fun but they are interesting to watch heal. Often they start joining from both ends and work toward the center. It almost sounds like your body continued this process beyond the point where it should have stopped. I am pretty sure Dr Haben didn't place the suture in the wrong place and your surgical pictures should verify it. Mine are on the site if you wish to compare them. If you want a larger image, I can provide that as well. I wasn't aware of the sites ability to reduce images when I posted them having come off a earlier revision of the same software we run here. As the result, I reduced them before posting, maybe a bit to much.

Quote from: Dena on July 14, 2016, 03:46:12 PM
I have been thinking about this for the last day or so and a though crossed my mind. I do a fair amount to works with my hands and receive the normal nasty collection of booboos to my hands. Not fun but they are interesting to watch heal. Often they start joining from both ends and work toward the center. It almost sounds like your body continued this process beyond the point where it should have stopped. I am pretty sure Dr Haben didn't place the suture in the wrong place and your surgical pictures should verify it. Mine are on the site if you wish to compare them. If you want a larger image, I can provide that as well. I wasn't aware of the sites ability to reduce images when I posted them having come off a earlier revision of the same software we run here. As the result, I reduced them before posting, maybe a bit to much.

It's difficult to say for sure, but I have in writing him saying all different sorts of "estimates" for how much he was supposed to suture off.  It seems to me as though he "winged it" so to speak and bit off more than he could chew.  I have shown my after pictures to three other ENT's now and two of them commented about the suture placement being too high.  I'm not planning any legal action at this time, but in my mind he has a degree of responsibility for both of these procedures being complete failures and it's my impression that at least two other medical professionals agree.

Kwala,

What buffles me in all this is his total lack of responsibility as not only you ended up losing your normal speaking voice at his hands but he also made you pay the full price for two surgeries that had such an outcome, without offering any refund, not even a partial one! That, in my view, is shocking!

If two specialist ENT's have commented that sutures were placed too high then I personally would take the matter further.

Once again, I am very sorry you ended up with such an outcome. Yeson are excellent at fixing  such issues caused by other surgeon(jessie told me). However,  Having paid for two consecutive surgeries, I understand that financially you may not be able to afford a third one, in which case I would suggest you set up a fund/ website with something like «help me get my voice back». I will be the first person to donate, Kwala.

Hugs

Ritana

Do you have endoscopic pictures of the vocal folds while the sutures were still in place? from those, one could see if they were placed so that the web had to form too large. I cannot really imagine the web forming itself beyond the suture line because there is tension at the Tip of the Y that actually pulls the vocal folds apart, so that would usually prevent that they grow together further than it was done during surgery. Plus the parts outside the surgical area are not depeithelized, so they should have mucous membrane on them, preventing tissue from growing together. Like - your fingers do not just grow together even if you have a wound at the place where they come together at the palm of the hand...

If you have proof that it was a suture that was loo long, maybe you can find a lawyer and make a deal to get a refund at least for the second surgery, so you could then afford a correction by Dr Thomas or Dr Kim - both are said to be good at fixing voices that have been surgically messed with.

Thank you for the concern and advice.  I have a plan to use a local doctor (highly renowned, has performed and reversed this procedure before) and I decided to come clean at work and get my insurance involved.  This isn't the way I wanted to do it, but I can only pay for so much on my own lol.  There's a good chance that this will all be covered- fingers crossed!  Right now my focus is 100% on regaining my voice and the ability to speak and I'll consider any legal actions if I can get to that place.  If I do get my voice back, I seriously doubt I'll ever do another voice surgery.  I know my case was extreme, but I've just been too scarred (pun intended) by the experience and if I can get normal speech back I'll just be grateful for what I have.

Got some good news today.  I don't have a date scheduled yet, and of course no guarantee that this will work, or any idea how well it will work, but...my insurance is going to cover the web removal.  I'm so relieved!  Two trips to Dr. Haben have depleted my savings and I didn't really know how I was going to pay for this if I had to come up with the funds on my own. 

Saw another ENT today- my providers wanted their guy to take a look since I had previously gone out of network- and he was really taken aback by the size of the web.  I asked him specifically about the size and he said roughly 1/4 of my cords are free to vibrate, maybe less, which means at least 75% of my cords are fused together.  What a sloppy outcome!  Part of me wishes a partial reduction were possible but it seems the best chance for a good outcome is a full removal, and at this point I can't really afford to roll the dice.  As always, thanks to everyone who has followed my story and shown support.   I will post details following the removal so that future patients will know what to do if they find themselves in this situation.

That's great that at least your insurance can cover it. I feel very bad that you had to go through all this. Stay strong! I will keep my fingers crossed for you for your web removal!!

Quote from: kwala on July 22, 2016, 04:08:40 PM
Got some good news today.  I don't have a date scheduled yet, and of course no guarantee that this will work, or any idea how well it will work, but...my insurance is going to cover the web removal.  I'm so relieved!  Two trips to Dr. Haben have depleted my savings and I didn't really know how I was going to pay for this if I had to come up with the funds on my own. 

Saw another ENT today- my providers wanted their guy to take a look since I had previously gone out of network- and he was really taken aback by the size of the web.  I asked him specifically about the size and he said roughly 1/4 of my cords are free to vibrate, maybe less, which means at least 75% of my cords are fused together.  What a sloppy outcome!  Part of me wishes a partial reduction were possible but it seems the best chance for a good outcome is a full removal, and at this point I can't really afford to roll the dice.  As always, thanks to everyone who has followed my story and shown support.   I will post details following the removal so that future patients will know what to do if they find themselves in this situation.

Great news! I'm chuffed for you, Kwala. I will keep my fingers crossed for you hun.