I want to emphasize Sno's point.  The people on this site have been understanding and supportive without exception to me, not to mention sage-like with their advice.  You are at the right place. 

Get to feel at home here.  Build some confidence and  comfort  knowing you will not be cruelly, only constructively  criticized, that you can have catharsis as needed when times are difficult. 

You are welcome here.

Quote from: Bob Wascathy on August 23, 2016, 05:06:51 AM
All my life I've had people telling me there's something wrong with me, starting with my family, school, relationships... my counsellor wasn't a deal of help tbh...

This is kind of my story.  I was always wrong, and it was my fault for not being whatever they considered "right."  It did a lot of damage that I'm still struggling to deal with.  Fortunately, I somehow knew that I had to get away from the family and the hometown I grew up in as soon as I could, which turned out to be age 18.  Getting away didn't fix my problems, but it did mean that I wasn't getting constantly retraumatized any more.  I'm 63, and still struggling to see what they did wasn't okay, that I don't have any obligation to defend or justify them.

For me, accepting that I am trans (in my own way, of course) has unlocked a lot of other issues.  But it has also helped that I'm seeing what I went through growing up as trauma, as long-term continuous trauma, worthy of the designation C-PTSD, and I'm seeing a therapist who is trained in dealing with trauma.

But it shouldn't take a trauma specialist to help you see that all the "you are no good" messages are BS.  And to help you see that what your wife is doing is very, very not okay, that leaving wouldn't mean that there is something wrong with you (if anything, the opposite), and maybe that leaving is the best thing you could do for all concerned.  And if they are any good, they should be able to guide you to someone (a lawyer?) who can make sure that if you leave, you are protected and your relationship with your daughter is protected.

FWIW, I didn't leave my marriage until I realized that I was hurting my children more by staying (mainly because I was fading away and wanting to die) than by leaving.  By leaving, I was able to make a stable home where they could feel safe.  Leaving hurt my kids, too, but not as much as the things I did trying to make things work with my wife.

"Fraud" just about sums up the way I feel. I keep being told I ought to "go for a makeover", or "make time to dress", or "make time for myself"... That's a bit like my erstwhile therapist who told me to "learn to love yourself" without giving the first clue as to how...

I've tried so hard to get my wife to accept that my "issue" doesn't change how I am, but it's clear that she believes it's some kind of perversion which can be "cured" by ignoring it. She had a strict Catholic upbringing and I think that reinforced her seeing everything in black and white... I also think if it weren't for my income funding everything, including the latest in her stream of "business ventures", I'd have been out.

I get the feeling I'm wasting people's time because I've been told as much in the past. Only a couple of weeks ago I was told that I should stop asking for help if I have no intention of acting on it because people are getting fed up of me. That coming from someone whose wife knows of and condones their activities...

If anyone does feel I'm wasting their time please say so and I'll go away.

Cathy,

I read all of this thread this morning and feel so sorry that you're having to endure this.  I am in very similar circumstances but it is clear that the issues you face are far more challenging.

It is clear that your marriage has many issues which, although not caused by your feelings, are exacerbated by them.  Many others have given you advice on this so I don't want to go over old ground other than to say, for your own sanity, it's important that you take charge.

There are two pieces of advice I'd give you:

1.  It's OK for you to be Cathy.  No-one currently calls me Amanda in 'real' life and I really think you should contact the administrators to change your user ID.  If only in this commiunity at present, allow yourself to be who you want to be as the vital first stage in all of this is to remove the self denial.  I am presuming that Bob is short for Robert so why not Cathy Roberts?

2.  You are not wasting anyone's time by posting here.  I have only been a member of this community for a few weeks and have been humbled by the extent and quality of advice on offer.  It's enabled me to rationalise a lot of how I feel in my mind and the realisation that many, including you, face the same doubts, worries and challenges as me has given me a lot of inner strength and helped me see the way forward more clearly.  Speaking for myself, the opportunity to give advice is my way of giving back to the community in return for all the help they have given me and, even though I am still new to the community, the gratitude I have received from others has helped my own belief in my credibility.

I hope that you will soon start to see the light but, in the meantime, post as much and ask as many questions as you like!

Amanda

I believe there is a typo in Amanda's point 2, and I'd like to repeat you are not wasting anyone's time.

The choice for action or not, is yours alone.

You are a welcome part of the community, with valuable contribution for others who may be considering similar choices.

Sno.

I had several accounts as "Cathy" on various fora, I deleted most of them earlier this year because, well, I felt that Cathy was dead and buried. The feelings, the urges, don't go away... The clothes, shoes, makeup, wigs, went in a charity shop, or a bin, or a clothing bank. The "support network" got fed up of me and disappeared. I used Bob as a first name because, well, anyone who is familiar with the 1980s comedy "Blackadder 2" will get the reference.

I just feel as though I'm going round in circles... I get annoyed with myself so I'm not surprised in the least that other people get annoyed with me... Every forum I've joined, every attempt I've made to reach out to people, to try and make friends, has ultimately resulted in me feeling worse for whatever reason. I always seem to attract people who concur with my parent's attitude, that constantly pointing out my shortcomings will make me want to try harder...

Cathy,

That is a normal (if expensive), repeated pattern of behaviour, that you'll see many times over here..

i think you're going to fit right in.

Sno. (edited to correct autocorrect fail.. )

Quote from: Sno on August 30, 2016, 03:35:01 AM
I believe there is a typo in Amanda's point 2, and I'd like to repeat you are not wasting anyone's time.

Sno - thanks for spotting this which was a rather unfortunate error too.  I have now corrected it and am sorry if it caused any upset.

Cathy - I can only speak as I find and this forum is full of wonderful people quite happy to give unconditional advice and support.  What I think you don't realise is every post of yours is also helping others if only to prove that they are not alone in their struggles so keep posting and sharing your thoughts and fears with us.  We've all thought the woman within had gone for good at one time or another (or, to be more precise, every time she is taken to the clothing bank - I just hope the new owners of several pairs of gorgeous stiletto pumps feel as good in them as I did) but, guess what, she keeps coming back and the more you try to control her and tell her what to do, the more she rebels and asserts herself (it's a woman thing, I think!).  It's important that you don't interpret robust advice with exasperation, though, particularly when that advice seems to come over and over again ('see a gender therapist' and 'be honest with yourself and your spouse' are common themes on this site, mainly because they are both very sensible things to do).

I think you need to draw up an action plan/strategy for yourself.  Start with what you really want and would do if you didn't need to consider anyone other than yourself.  This may be full transition or just occasional crossdressing but be totally honest with yourself.  Then think about the situation around you - how far do you think you could compromise and still feel at peace with yourself - this is the hard part as, for example, you're having to weigh up whether over-compromising to save your marriage is going to make you less happy than living in a situation where the relationship breaks down and all of the baggage that comes with that.  Then start making your implementation plan (and make sure you stick to it!).

It's not easy being TG but for every person like you or me who is currently struggling with our demons, there is another person on this site who has achieved some form of inner peace by moving to a point on the TG spectrum that works for them and people around them.  The great thing is that it is a spectrum not an all or nothing thing which means that the solution does not have to be full surgical transition.

Keep on posting!

Amanda

Quote from: Bob Wascathy on August 30, 2016, 02:49:07 AM
"Fraud" just about sums up the way I feel. I keep being told I ought to "go for a makeover", or "make time to dress", or "make time for myself"... That's a bit like my erstwhile therapist who told me to "learn to love yourself" without giving the first clue as to how...

This therapist made a really nice point. I can't analyze within detail but from the posts you wrote transpires you need lots of self-empowerment and self-esteem.

Also, from what you say I can catch your wife is being really toxic to you. Doesn't sound like a healthy relationship: all stuff has to be discussed, if not its going to be a disaster. Communication is key.

Really difficult to love yourself if whenever you try to be yourself, your expected-to-be soulmate is going to deny your reality and refuse to talk about it.

Just my two cents.

PS: And please, don't apologise about if we feel you're making us waste our time. Anyone here is free to read and post, no apologies. Be free and don't be sorry about it. Anyway, one thing has to be said; usually after reaching certain point, dwelling again again on the same stuff is useless and even harmful for yourself. When the time comes, action needs to take place.

Quote from: Bob Wascathy on August 30, 2016, 03:48:37 AM

I just feel as though I'm going round in circles... I get annoyed with myself so I'm not surprised in the least that other people get annoyed with me... Every forum I've joined, every attempt I've made to reach out to people, to try and make friends, has ultimately resulted in me feeling worse for whatever reason. I always seem to attract people who concur with my parent's attitude, that constantly pointing out my shortcomings will make me want to try harder...

I've had bad luck with forums too, Cathy. I mean, this forum is the first trans forum I've used but in the past when I've reached out for help online, people would just assume I was trying to get attention or they'd just ignore me. I personally haven't experienced being treated that way from another trans person, but I have heard many stories about it. I've heard terms like "Truscum" and "transier than thou" are used to describe people like that. I don't know how they can invalidate another trans person like that, seeing as they know exactly how it feels to have their own identity denied. It's like they believe there is only one true way to be transgender and they tend to hate on non-binary individuals a lot too. It's hard to let go of the past, but the important thing is you've found this forum. From my experience not one person has been mean or invalidated me as a trans man. In fact, this is the only place where people see me as the individual I truly am. I'm in a similar situation and I'm very unsure if I'm going to leave my partner or if I'll end up on hormones or getting any kind of surgery. One thing that has helped is coming on this forum to either vent, try to help others or just talk about anything to other trans people. It might not seem like much, but while you're in that stage of being unsure of what to do, this place can help out so much. Being worried about your kid is a big factor and I know how that is. I sometimes find myself kept up at night from anxiety, just terrified at the possibility that my kids will end up rejecting me and being transphobic. One of the last times my partner and I had a conversation about my gender, he "warned" me that the kids may resent me. That hurt worse than a slap in the face. But what he failed to realize is that any of the kids could end up being trans too. That's one of the biggest things that's kept me going. And even if they're not trans like me, I'm gonna do as much as I can to teach them to be kind, respectful and accepting of all people. Has your wife been teaching your daughter closed-minded values? Even if she has, your daughter is still only 10. That can be a pretty flexible age and kids can be very open-minded.

Cathy,

I hope you are getting the message:  there is a lot of genuine love here ad it does not come at premium or with strings attached.  If you are honest, willing to open up to the members of the forum you will be accepted here.

One thing I learned from spending some time in Asia with some Buddhist friends is the concept that it is not the destination that is the goal, it is the journey.  Also, the 4 Noble Truths of Buddhism begin with "Life is suffering...".

I am not personally a Buddhist but this teaching made a substantial impact on how I view life.  It is unquestionably wise.  The realization that you are TG is the first step in a journey, one assured to be painful and teeming with opportunity to suffer.  The key is not to simply wallow in the suffering, helpless.  As you have read, post after post goes something like:  "Cathy, your story is nearly identical to mine..."  or "I know exactly how you feel..." or "Before I decided to <decision, intervention,plan, etc.> I thought there was no solution, no end to this cycle of <problems with my wife, dysphoria, purging, etc.>.   We all ARE there with you in some way or another.  None of us is "complete" or "finished,"  Arguably, this state is only achieved at the point we stop evolving and growing--death--back to the point of the goal being navigating a path through life, not reaching a final goal. 

You will find that advice will spring from all directions here.  Don't think for a minute that those offering the advice have it all figured out or do not themselves struggle in one way or another.  We all do.  It is that shared struggle that knits us together and results in greater strength as a whole than the sum of each of us alone.  We understand the phenomenon, and the existence of the "bad day."  I, for one, had one of these hideous days about a week or so ago finding myself feeling hopeless to find a way to cope with the dysphoria, unable to see a way to improve my situation. It may sound corny but what I am about to say is heartfelt truth:  My sisters on the forum ran to my rescue, offered support and advice, lifted me up when I was really in the pit.  I cannot adequately express my appreciation for what was done for me; done without qualification or expectation of something in return other than my ongoing effort to progress in my struggle with the TG beast.  I've suffered silently with my TG problems for a long time (I'm 58 years old) and for the first time experienced empathy and a sense of community with those who actually understood my plight.  At the end of that bad day after reading numerous members posts, I wept with appreciation for the caring and affection I was shown.

So, don't continue to worry that you are wasting the forum members' time with posts that may not seem to read like a Gant diagram for a construction project.  The work we need to do on ourselves is difficult and usually does not follow a nice tidy linear path.  There will be ups and downs, advances forward and ground lost.  In those darker times, know you have sisters here who will happily listen and try to our wits' end to help, doing so without need for apology.

Quote from: aaajjj55 on August 30, 2016, 03:12:57 AM




1. ... I really think you should contact the administrators to change your user ID.  If only in this commiunity at present, allow yourself to be who you want to be as the vital first stage in all of this is to remove the self denial...
...
You are not wasting anyone's time by posting here...

I agree Amanda. You should let one of us help you change your name here. I had not had anyone call me by Joanna for a long time. However, my wife(occasionally), my therapist and some locals I have met in a support group are now doing so. It all started with being Joanna here. Done with Cathy? How about Kathy or Kate(I have a GG friend that will argue that Kate is far superior to Cate or any other variation), Katey, KateyDid...

This is a place for support not worrying about being annoying or wasting people's time.

Lastly, I had serious problems with, "Where do I start", on loving myself. I am not done yet but moving forward. I have found things in Joanna I like that are part of me. Not all of me is loathsome. I can be worthy. Start small with the stuff you like and doing things you like.

You are in a tough spot. I wish you love, acceptance and a smoother journey.

Keep talking as needed.

With warmth,

Joanna

Cathy, you aren't wasting anyone's time.  We are all here voluntarily, as a sort of floating 24/7 support group.  We're here for you.  We're here for me.  It's support.

I think many of us, especially us late bloomers, have been through the expensive purge cycles and found ourselves not so cured after all more than once.  This isn't at all unusual.  The Self-Doubt Monster takes many forms, and just keeps coming back to wrap itself and us in a blanket of depression.  That's when we come here.

Here's where we can find others like ourselves, perhaps a little farther along on their individual journeys, to warn us of hazards, guide us to safer places for ourselves, and share some inspiration, humor, and life with us.  It helps.  It really helps.

You're not really going in circles.  It's more of a spiral outward, like how the Yellow Brick Road starts out.  Yes, you've been past these places before, you've seen these things, but you also remember how they worked out or didn't last time around, and you nudge yourself past them with a slightly different outcome this time.  You are exploring, tiny steps, but exploring how you want your journey to go.  Eventually you'll choose a path.  We are here for you.

I don't think anyone can give us detailed instructions on how to deal with the personal issues in our lives.  Folks can suggest steps to try, but each of us has to decide within ourselves whether to try this or that step, and work out how to achieve it within our own life.  This forum, like any support group, can help with that, by listening to us as we speak or type our plans, and perhaps offer a little constructive help along the way.

Please continue to use the forum, and we'll continue to help!

- Michelle

Thank you all, I've logged on this morning to see all the replies to my post and I'm on the verge of tears, but in a good way. So many times I've been on fora, and logged off feeling as though I've had a kicking. I've been accused of ignoring advice, of attention seeking, of not wanting help... If only I'd found this forum a few years ago things may have taken a different turn.

Quote from: Michelle_P on August 30, 2016, 12:56:39 PMI think many of us, especially us late bloomers, have been through the expensive purge cycles and found ourselves not so cured after all more than once.  This isn't at all unusual.  The Self-Doubt Monster takes many forms, and just keeps coming back to wrap itself and us in a blanket of depression.  That's when we come here.

You're not really going in circles.  It's more of a spiral outward, like how the Yellow Brick Road starts out.  Yes, you've been past these places before, you've seen these things, but you also remember how they worked out or didn't last time around, and you nudge yourself past them with a slightly different outcome this time.  You are exploring, tiny steps, but exploring how you want your journey to go.  Eventually you'll choose a path.  We are here for you.

I don't think anyone can give us detailed instructions on how to deal with the personal issues in our lives.  Folks can suggest steps to try, but each of us has to decide within ourselves whether to try this or that step, and work out how to achieve it within our own life.  This forum, like any support group, can help with that, by listening to us as we speak or type our plans, and perhaps offer a little constructive help along the way.

Please continue to use the forum, and we'll continue to help!

- Michelle

I'm glad someone doesn't think I'm going round in circles... I often wonder myself.

I spent most of the bank holiday weekend working in the garden. I've spent so much time doing housework, washing, ironing, that the garden has been neglected, and the conifers are pushing the fence down... I'm conscious that my dogs may get out... 3 days of hard work has made a difference, but meanwhile the ironing pile has grown, the dust is thicker, and my wife and stepson spent much of the weekend staring at computer screens. As always happens.

This is yet another circle I can't break... Eventually I'll get so frustrated looking at all this that I'll cave in and spend yet another weekend washing, ironing, cleaning... I know I'm stupid for putting up with it but, well, I can't see a way out...

You aren't alone in doing this, either.  I have a similar situation, where I am doing the cleaning, cooking, dishes, and so on.  I suspect I'm really doing this as a gender role thing, a poor substitute for expressing my identity more directly.  (I'm not supposed to present as myself at home, while anyone else is here. Classic shaming.).

So, I'm almost going in circles on this, too.  Housework vs yardwork vs being myself...  Almost.  I'm trying to tease out some solutions for myself, and I'm moving forward with HRT and electrolysis.  Yes, the wife knows about this.  I've discussed it with her, and she has tolerated it so far.  Electrolysis won't make a noticeable change, as I've never had facial hair on display. HRT hasn't made an immediate noticeable (by others) change, but I haven't been seen without a top on since I started. (Now Tanner II-III, and 36A. Better and faster than I had expected.)

One way or another, whether by male fail, or my showing up here dressed as myself, I'm spiraling out of this rut.

Quote from: Bob Wascathy on August 30, 2016, 02:49:07 AM
I've tried so hard to get my wife to accept that my "issue"...

If your happiness depends on what somebody else does, I guess you do have a problem. Richard Bach

Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours. Richard Bach

Suffice it to say, I wish I had your schedule. I might actually get more then 3 hours sleep a night and not worrying about coming home from work finding a wife with a cut throat or her head splattered across 3 or so backyards. And those are just the minor points that keep the local wine merchant profitable.

All of us need to juggle and balance what is important to us. I sacrifice a lot of my needs for the greater good of the needs of "The Us". "The Us" is a two way street. I know, I'm told, I'm thanked profusely by my wife for all the things I do to keep things going in a positive direction. You appear to have no "Us" only a "Me" and that me is not you, it is her.

Is it any wonder that you seem to be going around in circles when you are in a rotary passing up every road except the one you've been on, the one you see directly ahead? No unknowns. No, what do I do if it's not the right road.

Albert Einstein defined "Insanity" as doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

I came to the conclusion several years that "I KNOW What Does Not Work". I was stuck in that same rotary you are. I kept telling myself the same things over and over again expecting This time it will be different.

As hard as it may be to believe, I am NOT a big fan of change. In fact I abhor it in my personal life. Surety = Safe. Unknown = Fear. Fear = Pain?  Since I love a good irony, the irony here is in my professional life, I constantly balance risks, often taking the "Throw it all out and start all over" approach. It's obvious this circuit never worked. Bandaid after bandaid applied until it resembled nothing like it was supposed to be and made no sense, proved that. It clearly did not work. Time for a Do-Over. It wasn't until I realized that in my own life I kept on applying one elastic plaster after another to "Fix" or otherwise make things better. And.... That plainly was not working

We all need to stop the severe bleeding when we are hurt. Clearly you are hurting, and have been for a long time.

What, albeit small thing, outside your comfort zone, can you change?

Which Pain is Worse?

I suppose that makes me insane then.

I don't know any more what I can change, tried so many times, I lie awake at night looking for a way forward but everything I think of will ultimately end up hurting others and so the cycle of guilt starts again.

It was 2 years ago yesterday that Cathy was put away for what turned out to be the final time. It wasn't easy yesterday, I tried to keep myself busy at work, but all day I just felt kind of empty. I genuinely don't know what to do, I can't see a way out. I feel inadequate, useless, worthless, pick your own adjective. I try my best but my best is never good enough somehow. Hope I can get through today...

When something like this happens, somebody will get hurt. If you come out, those close to you will have to find a way to deal with it. If your remain in the closet, you will be hurt. You will find there is no joy in life and you may become cold and insensitive to others. This will break up your marriage just as fast as if you were to come out. The difference is staying in the closet will make it happen latter after you have given everybody another reason to dislike you.

The best solution I see is for you to be true to yourself and be open to helping the rest of the family joining you. Your family may still reject you but it will be because of their decision not to adapt to life.

Quote from: Bob Wascathy on September 02, 2016, 01:08:42 AM
It was 2 years ago yesterday that Cathy was put away for what turned out to be the final time. It wasn't easy yesterday, I tried to keep myself busy at work, but all day I just felt kind of empty

I disagree. Cathy wasn't put away for the final time... because if she was, you wouldn't be reaching out to other trans people for a lifeline two years later. Cathy has always been there, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week - she's just been hiding behind a facade, getting more desperate and frustrated with each passing hour.

That's why yesterday was so difficult for you: you thought you could get over all of this if you just tried hard enough, but you've discovered that it's simply not possible to do so. And until you address it properly, you won't get over it by yourself. Untreated gender dysphoria is kinda like a volcano: the turmoil can be hidden below the surface for a while but it just keeps churning away & building up pressure, until eventually it erupts in an almighty explosion.  I rather suspect that's what's been happening to you (repeatedly): you made a decision two years ago to permanently discard Cathy and try to live your life as 'Bob', trying to convince yourself that if you just push her down hard enough she'll never be able to resurface. But like that seething volcano, she was just building up pressure below the surface until she broke out again recently, which is why you've suddenly become active on various fora again.

I urge you to go to your GP and ask to be put on a waiting list for a suitable GIC. Their therapists will counsel you on all aspects of your feelings - including how to deal with your family - and you won't have to commit to anything unless and until you're ready for it. But you do need to get started as soon as possible. I'd recommend you ask for a referral to Daventry, as it has the shortest waiting list in your region and has a good reputation. I have several friends who attend that clinic and they all vouch for it. Even though it has a shortish waiting list, that list is still 35 weeks long (they're currently seeing people who were referred by their GPs last November). So why not get the ball rolling?

Plenty of people transition successfully later in life. A trans woman who volunteers at my GIC is 69 years old, and she only transitioned 3 years ago. She's about a million percent happier in her skin than she was before, and you'd never guess she was trans if you didn't already know. She still has a great relationship with her daughters, even though her marriage failed. You're not getting any younger. Why not let Cathy out into the sunshine whilst she's able to enjoy it?

And then instead of feeling sad about the anniversary of putting her away, you can celebrate your re-birthday. I celebrated mine on Monday: 3 years since I started my medical transition, and even though it cost me my marriage, I don't regret it for a second. That marriage was insignificant compared to my right to be free to live as my authentic self.