I've been on T now for about 11 months. In public, I pass 100% of the time and have for quite some time. Things I used to loathe before--talking to strangers, talking on the phone, going out in general, etc.--have now become enjoyable. In fact, I spend most of my time these days interacting with strangers out and about as opposed to people that knew me pre-T.

Why?
I feel like I'm being visually broken down and evaluated piece by piece to determine whether each of the individual components are 'masculine' enough. Though I'm willing to admit that some of this may be a bout of paranoia, I do feel like a portion of it is rooted in reality.
There are a number of people that don't understand how hormones work, I think. I have a little bit of a chinstrap, a decent mustache and a bit of sparse hair on my chin (which, in context, isn't too awful for such a short amount of time on HRT), but I get the occasional 'is that all you're going to grow?' comment. It's stifling. I'm constantly struggling with the feeling of people sizing me up and subsequently saying to themselves, 'lol, that's it?'.

I honestly wish I could cut ties with almost everyone I knew and come back in a couple of years to be reintroduced.

Has anyone else experienced this? After coming out but before transitioning, I felt so much comfort amidst friends and neighbors that were 'in the know' and now... not so much.

Sort off.  I don't have any friends (social anxiety) but live with my dad and brother who haven't said anytging about my appearance. Although my brother did ask if I'm getting 'bigger'. It makes me feel like after almost a year the T hasn't really done anything. I still feel I look like a masculine woman. I feel the people at work are simply humouring me and sussed out I'm not a 'real' man; partly due to how I look and partly due to how fem I am (just started a week ago and is my first job as my real self). My relatives didn't comment on my appearance at our fanily reunion 2 months ago; although that was the first time they've seen me since coming out. My aunt did say I was handsome though which meant the world to me.

Sorry for rambling on but I get it. Apart from my face being squarer and a jawline I still feel I don't look how I should. I'm still waiting for my facial hair as well. My dream is to emigrate in a few years so I can just start my life anew with nobody knowing I'm trans. For now I'm stuck though.

I think you answered your question in there. They don't understand how hormones work, so perhaps you should explain. A lot of cis guys know - they first started growing facial hair in their teens and probably couldn't grow a decent beard (if they're even able to at all) until their 20's. If they're older, perhaps they've forgotten. If they're female, they flat out don't know.

There seems to be a lot of expectation.

People hear you're going to become male and you can almost see the wheels turning in their mind as they try to imagine either how ineffectual the effort will be, or how much of a buff masculine adonis you could possibly become with the starting materials in front of them. And usually the expectation is you're going to try to be as masculine as humanly possible and not just "male".

I find some people are more uptight about the idea of me passing than I am. They're really looking. I haven't had time to worry about it too much but honestly I just keep telling myself that I can't hope for miracles, and most of what I do is to make life more bearable for me, not them. You can always relocate, at some point, and I expect I'll do the same somewhere down the line. I've already done it many times and I enjoy the experience of new people and of not being known all about.

Quote from: FTMax on September 04, 2016, 08:47:54 AM
I think you answered your question in there. They don't understand how hormones work, so perhaps you should explain. A lot of cis guys know - they first started growing facial hair in their teens and probably couldn't grow a decent beard (if they're even able to at all) until their 20's. If they're older, perhaps they've forgotten. If they're female, they flat out don't know.

Honestly, I've held hands and explained until my face was blue for the last two and a half years.
"It usually takes five years for the average male puberty to come to full fruition and the same will be the case with me."
"No, I won't instantly grow a beard. I think I'm genetically coded for it, but only time will tell."
"I won't be getting any taller (I was 28 when I started) because estrogen caps bone growth for everyone, male and female, at the end of puberty."
"No, my hands and feet won't really grow but they may get 'meatier'."
etc.

I started laying the groundwork about a year and a half before I transitioned, sitting down and having drawn out explanatory conversations with everyone that wanted information. I answered every single question, no matter how probing, because I wanted to normalize the process as much as possible. The vast majority of my friends and neighbors have never outright known someone trans (at least not of which they've been aware), so I wanted to be a good, level-headed example.
It did a lot for some people and... well, almost nothing for others. I should also note at this point that I continued to explain and whatnot up until about four months ago, often going over the same questions multiple times.

I'm at the point where I simply want people to see me for what I am and not for what I'm becoming; this is possible with strangers. Does that make sense?

Quote from: T.K.G.W. on September 04, 2016, 11:10:15 AM
There seems to be a lot of expectation.

People hear you're going to become male and you can almost see the wheels turning in their mind as they try to imagine either how ineffectual the effort will be, or how much of a buff masculine adonis you could possibly become with the starting materials in front of them. And usually the expectation is you're going to try to be as masculine as humanly possible and not just "male".

^ Yes. YES. -That's- it.
The expectation. I've constantly felt like I've had to strive to go above and beyond expectations (only child syndrome) no matter what. I'm sort of a control freak and I will always take matters into my own hands before delegating if I want something done.
The thing is... I can't control the hormones. I can't control my genetics. I can't control the level of 'well, that's a letdown' if people look at me and don't see what they held in their mind's eye before the process started.
The funny thing is, aside from the lack of substantial facial hair, I'm not at all dissatisfied with my appearance. I look in the mirror and see a male but a huge part of that is because I started a strict workout regimen a few months ago. I'm up to 195 pounds (from 160 pre-T) and in the best shape I've ever been in.
Still, I just feel like I'm not 'there'--I may never feel done, I guess--enough for the somewhat skeptical among my acquaintances to concede that their preconceived notions were askew.

So I hide. And that doesn't match my personality in the slightest.

Quote from: Elis on September 04, 2016, 05:06:09 AM
Sorry for rambling on but I get it. Apart from my face being squarer and a jawline I still feel I don't look how I should. I'm still waiting for my facial hair as well. My dream is to emigrate in a few years so I can just start my life anew with nobody knowing I'm trans. For now I'm stuck though.

Wouldn't that be ideal? I'm struggling the most with neighbors at the moment and, unfortunately, we just refinanced our house and will be here for at least another five years. I love our neighborhood and our house... but I'm not particularly fond of going outside where there are a million inquiries and curious eyes. It's my hope that the excitement dulls down in a couple of years and everyone just sort of lets it go.

Im actually not interested in being super macho, lol. A few sparse hairs or possibly just going baby faced anyways is fine by me. As is not having a lot of muscle growth, and Id wish to keep my nice femme figure as well. Im simply not a very masculine guy, as far as on a spectrum goes, Ive always been pretty masculine for my birth standards of society, but feminine by my gender standards of society, so I guess I exist in a weird gap.

My entire life has pretty much been throwing up my middle finger at the obnoxious expectations of what I have to be when I am not, Im certainly not going to stop at "Well youre not MANLY enough to be a man"

If I pass as a man, thats already enough for me.

Quote from: Stone Magnum on September 04, 2016, 01:22:08 PM
Honestly, I've held hands and explained until my face was blue for the last two and a half years.
"It usually takes five years for the average male puberty to come to full fruition and the same will be the case with me."
"No, I won't instantly grow a beard. I think I'm genetically coded for it, but only time will tell."
"I won't be getting any taller (I was 28 when I started) because estrogen caps bone growth for everyone, male and female, at the end of puberty."
"No, my hands and feet won't really grow but they may get 'meatier'."
etc.

I started laying the groundwork about a year and a half before I transitioned, sitting down and having drawn out explanatory conversations with everyone that wanted information. I answered every single question, no matter how probing, because I wanted to normalize the process as much as possible. The vast majority of my friends and neighbors have never outright known someone trans (at least not of which they've been aware), so I wanted to be a good, level-headed example.
It did a lot for some people and... well, almost nothing for others. I should also note at this point that I continued to explain and whatnot up until about four months ago, often going over the same questions multiple times.

I'm at the point where I simply want people to see me for what I am and not for what I'm becoming; this is possible with strangers. Does that make sense?


^ Yes. YES. -That's- it.
The expectation. I've constantly felt like I've had to strive to go above and beyond expectations (only child syndrome) no matter what. I'm sort of a control freak and I will always take matters into my own hands before delegating if I want something done.
The thing is... I can't control the hormones. I can't control my genetics. I can't control the level of 'well, that's a letdown' if people look at me and don't see what they held in their mind's eye before the process started.
The funny thing is, aside from the lack of substantial facial hair, I'm not at all dissatisfied with my appearance. I look in the mirror and see a male but a huge part of that is because I started a strict workout regimen a few months ago. I'm up to 195 pounds (from 160 pre-T) and in the best shape I've ever been in.
Still, I just feel like I'm not 'there'--I may never feel done, I guess--enough for the somewhat skeptical among my acquaintances to concede that their preconceived notions were askew.

So I hide. And that doesn't match my personality in the slightest.

Wouldn't that be ideal? I'm struggling the most with neighbors at the moment and, unfortunately, we just refinanced our house and will be here for at least another five years. I love our neighborhood and our house... but I'm not particularly fond of going outside where there are a million inquiries and curious eyes. It's my hope that the excitement dulls down in a couple of years and everyone just sort of lets it go.

I dont want to tell you to keep blueing your face up over the exhasperating process but I just wanted to add that maybe those people you sat down and talked to actually understand trans related things better than they would have if you never sat them down, even if they did have preconceived notions. Perhaps it was overwhelmingly confusing and possibly freakish at first but being able to explain your experience and keep people out of ignorance almost always seems to work better than nothing

Perhaps just start printing out and handing people pamphlets instead

The vast majority of folks don't know anything about trans related anything. How would they? When we tell them we are transitioning from one gender to another the only framework they have to go by is what they see from cis people. I have not had anyone make comments about my transition in terms of intimating that they expect more. But I have had lots of questions about facial hair (can I grow it), voice (will it change), etc.

I don't think people are suggesting you are less than based on what you say they comment on. Just their observations from clueless cis minds. I know a couple of cis guys that cannot grow facial hair to save their lives! In fact cis guys understand this more than anyone.

As far as masculinity well, that is something cis men deal with also. Society has its stereotypical definitely of what it means to be a man. I think us trans men are more hyper aware of this because of our never ending strugfle to "pass" as male. If you were cis you probably would not for one second wonder if people questioned your gender identity. Gender expression and sexuality? Now yes, maybe that.

It's hard but try not to feed into what people say. You are free to define what it means to be a man for yourself. I always stress to FtMs to observe cis guys. They come in all varieties. So do we.