I have had a lot of people ask me if I was.

My response has been that If I was they would have found out in my appendex surgery (which was major due to rupture not minor)

The answer really is: I don't know.

My parrents certainly have never said anyting, and they certainly would have if they knew.

I have wondered about chromozones, etc. and have seriously been considering finding a way to find out.

Does anyone know of a way? like a bloodtest?

Thanks.
Sara

The blood test for chromosomes is called a karyotype. However a blood karyotype usually suffers from under-sampling and is at best, a guess (ie they don't test enough cells to rule out mosaicism, or chimerism).

A barrbody test is the second one, however it won't tell you precisely the amount of chromosomes or which exactly they are - it will only tell you if you have an inactivated X chromosome (and thus, more than one, XXY would, for example).

A FISH test, is the most precise for chromosome. Fluorescent in situ hybridization. This is more precise than a blood karyotype.

QuoteFISH (Fluorescent in situ hybridization) is a cytogenetic technique that can be used to detect and localize the presence or absence of specific DNA sequences on chromosomes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescent_in_situ_hybridization

Of course, chromosomes, and phenotype (genitals) are not the only marker of intersex. Hormone levels (ie XXY or Klinefelter), their production (ie CAH - Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia) and their receptivity (Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome). Gonads (ovaries, testes, ovotestis) are also a measure of this, someone with chimerism can have more than a pair of gonads.

And, for certain, to get those tests, either you have the money to get them, or a doctor willing to order them...many doctors are quick to dismiss possibilities when they don't see genital ambiguity or obvious phenotype/genotype mismatch (XY female conditions for example).

Hello Sarah,
    They run a variety of tests on you to check for IS. I had a saliva test, several blood tests, x-rays and an MRI done on me. I was poked so much I was afraid to drink for fear it would just seep out through the holes!! lol. The saliva test was for hormone levels, the MRI was to see what organs etc I have. After they determined my organs the blood tests were ordered as was my x ray. I think most of that was to check everything health wise. The thing is my mind had my ISism supressed so we didn't really know what was going on. I just realized I was TS, or so we thought.My voice started changing overnight and my breasts started growing so off to the doc I went. They decided to test my hormone levels through my saliva and were shocked to find the levels they did - mostly estrogen and hardly androgen. In order to find out why my body was doing this they ordered an MRI to see if one of my organs was misfiring. That's when they discovered I had a uterus, ine testi and one ovary, milk glands (or whatever they are called) and everything was healthy. I also found out what that partial opening is I have down below. It's amazing really that  my mind was able to supress so much, but it did. Good luck,
        Kim 

if theres really no sign, its normally very unlikely.... why do you WANT to be intersex? you realise how FEW are?
R

I don't think she's asking to be intersexed, just seeking answers to her being. I always felt something was different about me from other people before even realizing I was TS. Embracing my being TS simmered that only a bit because as I read post after post after post from TS' here on this site I still felt different somehow. I now realize why, I am IS, and to the max as someone said to me one time. My body actually is female with a penis. Now I feel in control and finally feel I fit in, even here. I know I am different but now know why. As one doctor told me, to deny one's self is to deny that person's existence in the world, and that person becomes prone to suicide. So yes, if Sarah has questions she should find her answers so she can embrace her true self and live.
             Kim 

Quote from: Kim on January 19, 2008, 01:03:41 PM
I don't think she's asking to be intersexed, just seeking answers to her being. I always felt something was different about me from other people before even realizing I was TS. Embracing my being TS simmered that only a bit because as I read post after post after post from TS' here on this site I still felt different somehow. I now realize why, I am IS, and to the max as someone said to me one time. My body actually is female with a penis. Now I feel in control and finally feel I fit in, even here. I know I am different but now know why. As one doctor told me, to deny one's self is to deny that person's existence in the world, and that person becomes prone to suicide. So yes, if Sarah has questions she should find her answers so she can embrace her true self and live.
             Kim 

I can relate to that differentness feeling, but I'm not so sure it's my being IS that is at the root. I'm certainly a weird girl in any case. I make a weird boy, and a weird girl, though I fit in and am seen as 'obviously in my place' as a girl (definitely 100x more than the reverse). It's not just my feminity, or masculinity...but my whole way of thinking, seems alien to most people's ways of thinking.

I backed out of debates (in real life, like at school) because I've heard it time and time again that my arguments were too weird / off topic / unconventional when to me they were perfectly logical, and I even could prove those arguments or hypothesis as being valid, but no one listened. I was always alone.

Transsexuals see being intersexed as some holy grail... some, excuse for being female or male or whatever....
stop trying to prove things and live your life, youll be a LOT happyer when you quit asking why...
R

Quote from: Rachael on January 19, 2008, 02:08:37 PM
Transsexuals see being intersexed as some holy grail... some, excuse for being female or male or whatever....
stop trying to prove things and live your life, youll be a LOT happyer when you quit asking why...
R

I need no excuse for being who I am. Like I said in the other thread, my family mostly accepts me with no issue, and intersex wouldn't solve anything in that - or any other - regard, for me.

I live with my mother and two youngest brothers, all of which recognize me as a bonafide girl, even if they don't deny my past (neither do I). I have mother-daughter talks and shopping trips sometimes, and have bonded closer to my mother since transitioning. My brothers treat me as their sister, and never slip in name or pronoun. My father and his girlfriend are also the same. I regret nothing there.

Being intersex would not facilitate my name change, or gender change, or surgery approval, or anything. It would (to know, either way), however, put my mind at ease. Knowing the facts of my birth, of my body, besides being interesting knowledge in itself, is comforting. And can be useful in preventing medical conditions from arising from simple ignorance.

Transsexual, or intersex, does not affect my passability (well, the fact that they know or not in itself, anyway), or how others treat me - most people don't even know what intersex is, anyway. I don't pursue full stealth, because however painful and repressed my past is, it existed - I could not 'make one up'. I cannot lie (no need to take my word, this is just saying that making up a story is too hard for my personal morals).

Thanks for the responses.

Soes anyone know about how much some of this would cost.

Maybe just some of the simplerer tests?

[censored! too much information! Yaaaaaaaaaa! Nooooooooo! Groossss! *************** **********]

(iee! to much information.)

I also have very little difficulty speaking with a female voice and I can sing very high pictched songs on key with no difficulty.

In any case I have always kinda wondered, and I keep getting people asking me if I was.
I just don't know, and it seems like its really easy for people not to know, so..

I don't know if it's somthing I should check or not. I kinda think I should.

Sara

Quote from: Sarah on January 19, 2008, 07:57:20 PM
Thanks for the responses.

Soes anyone know about how much some of this would cost.

Maybe just some of the simplerer tests?

The thing is (and this is sorta wierd) I can feel some sort of opening underneath the skin in between my anus and gennitals.

(iee! to much information.)

I also have very little difficulty speaking with a female voice and I can sing very high pictched songs on key with no difficulty.

In any case I have always kinda wondered, and I keep getting people asking me if I was.
I just don't know, and it seems like its really easy for people not to know, so..

I don't know if it's somthing I should check or not. I kinda think I should.

Sara

Test costs vary. In Canada its free, in the US I heard something like 500-1000$ if not covered.

The opening you mention is something every guy has, called a pseudo-vagina, I think. It's normal. But wether there is a 'real' vagina underneath, or not, would normally not be known by feeling it, but by a MRI.

If you can sing at all, your voice is more flexible than most. I've never sung, and my voice is androgynous (ie it doesn't out me, but it might sound a bit lower than average, definitely not bass), if I was able to sing, I could raise my pitch to contr-alto easily, maybe even soprano (I'm not that far). I've not done anything to my voice since going full-time. I speak softly...but I always did.

You can check things out if you want, but I suggest not having expectations as to the results. And yes, most people don't know what qualifies as intersex, who is intersex, who isn't - and 'most' includes doctors, shrinks, therapists, endocrinologists...

Sara (feels like talking to myself )

Founding out if one is IS, especially if its one of the less extreme forms, that's hard to
determine is a bit pointless, I feel. But, if you need to know, well who I am too argue.

Besides my height, all my measures are inside or at the lower end of the "female" range.
But, I don't know if would change anything if I really knew anything?

you do realise how much karylotype tests are on US insurance?
talking 2k
R

Yeah... I'd like to get the tests done, just to know, but for now I've got more pressing money concerns (both a good thing and a bad thing).

Yet another uninsured American,
Lia

I've been told by my therapist that it usually reveals itself during childhood.  If you are an adult and haven't had any reason to suspect you are IS other than the fact that you are TS, chances are you are not IS.

quite right... if you were, youd know....

transsexuals seem to love looking and get majorly dissapointed when they find thier not.
R

Quote from: Rachael on January 19, 2008, 11:29:08 PM
quite right... if you were, youd know....

I just don't think it's that simple.  Of course, if you're a 12-year-old boy who starts hemorrhaging from a period without an exit, then you'd find out.  But there are plenty of IS conditions that aren't 100% obvious.  Most AIS women never find out they're XY because there's nothing, phenotypically speaking, downright obvious about it.  After all, lots of IS conditions start out not with certain knowledge but a suspicion.

But yes, lots of us (TS) wish that we were IS because deep down we need the validation of science.  Just the baggage of the modern era and empiricism.

Lia

i feel transsexuality is a neurological IS condition anyway.... but hey... they want proof, let them go chase thier white whale....
R

Rachael, Genovais's right, some AIS find out when after a few year of no period they
get inspected and oops! That must come as a shock! There's plenty others
where it affects small things but there's plenty of variance in humans beings
that can mask IS conditions.

As for TS's being IS. Its not in the phenotype, but what's IS that having the wrong gendered body.
Its a biggest IS fullup ever. I'd prefer being AIS if I have to choose my problems :-).

i remember a case where a girl doing a genetics masters found out she was IS after they tested thier own DNA in a labclass....  '46xy? but im?' WOOPS!
R

Quote from: Rachael on January 20, 2008, 01:34:45 AM
i remember a case where a girl doing a genetics masters found out she was IS after they tested thier own DNA in a labclass....  '46xy? but im?' WOOPS!
R

I knew a genetic girl some years ago who was intersexed but she looked totally feminine and lovely. She had male chromosones and I said at the time I thought I was intersexed as well.