Susan's Place Logo

News:

Please be sure to review The Site terms of service, and rules to live by

Main Menu

Dr. van der Dussen.

Started by JaniceNL, October 02, 2016, 08:36:27 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

JaniceNL

Does anyone have recent experience with Dr. Noorman van der Dussen?

I have been going through a few old threads and searched the web but I have not been able to find many result/testimonials.
  •  

anjaq

Amy from Berlin had her FFS some years ago with him. I asked him about an assessment last year, but it was only possible to get one by coming to the office at a price of 100 EU. Apparently he is presently operating together with a new surgeon who supposedly should take over the business in some years.

  •  

JaniceNL

There are quite a few amy's on here so hopefully she can reply here or send me a pm.

I heard that aswell, I believe it's 50 euros now for a 30 minute consult. Did you not go in and have a consult?
  •  

anjaq

I had a short remote email consult with photos only - he recommended basically the usual that all others also recommend - forehead/hairline, nose, chin/jaw... nothing new ;) - I am not sure what I would learn from a direct consult. The main obstacle is the distance - I would pay 50 EU, no problem, but I need to travel to NL, which would mean a day of travel plus two flights which probably sums up to about 300 EU for that consultation day, unless I need to add hotel costs.

Sd of now I had 2 face to face consultations and 2 more by email plus VFFS and Unless I know what to look for in a personal consultation I am reluctant to do another one, as I am not sure in what way a consultation will give me an idea if a surgeon is the right one and the best for the job or not. I can only rule out those that I dislike personally in a consultation, but I cannot say if one is better than another - The recommendations are usually the same, they have different prices, They may have different details in their technique, which I have a hard time to evaluate though. e.G. is a coronal incision better than a hairline incision or vice versa? Is forehead Type 3 work better than Type 1? ....

  •  

tidalflames

I cant speak for forehead work, but I had a very good chin/vline jawline done by him and his team. Actually a revision one as i previously tried some shaving of my chin with little result, but this one actually made it...wrote a review with some pics:
https://www.realself.com/review/singelberg-clinic-chin-surgery-ffs-sliding-genioplasty-revision-rhinoplasty#

  •  

JaniceNL

Is it possible to pm you?

I would still apreciate more testimonials on this Dr. He is currently on the top of my list regarding surgeons in the EU.
  •  

Ellement_of_Freedom

I'm surprised there's not more of his patients around! I really would benefit from some more information/pictures. I have booked a skype consultation with him, so I don't think he will be able to show me any before and after photos. Not until I meet him in person.


FFS: Dr Noorman van der Dussen, August 2018 (Belgium)
SRS: Dr Suporn, January 2019 (Thailand)
VFS: Dr Thomas, May 2019 (USA)
  •  

anjaq

I did not know he does Skype. He only offered me a personal consultation in his office for the usual fee most seem to take. Does he charge for Skype consultations as well?

I think for some reason he is not well known - I know little patients who went there. Maybe he does not make a lot of marketing or promotion. But given that he seems to be a FFS pioneer in Europe its strange that he is not mentioned more often as an option.

  •  

Ellement_of_Freedom

Quote from: anjaq on October 13, 2016, 05:50:26 PM
I did not know he does Skype. He only offered me a personal consultation in his office for the usual fee most seem to take. Does he charge for Skype consultations as well?

I think for some reason he is not well known - I know little patients who went there. Maybe he does not make a lot of marketing or promotion. But given that he seems to be a FFS pioneer in Europe its strange that he is not mentioned more often as an option.

I enquired about a Skype session and mentioned I live in Australia. His assistant said because I live so far away that it will be okay. Perhaps you should ask about it directly? It still costs 100 euro, however, if I decide to go ahead with him, the face-to-face consultation in the week leading up to surgery will be free.

I really like his website. It is polished, informative and professional. I have heard his before and afters are "very good" but I'm yet to see them myself. This will make it difficult to go ahead with him without any resources to help base my decision. Yes, I like the fact that he is one of the pioneers. Perhaps I will have a better feel for things after our consultation.

Less marketing/promotion, in my mind, is a good thing. Quality speaks louder than advertisements. Granted, I'm yet to see much evidence, but I know he shows a lot of before/afters when you meet him.


FFS: Dr Noorman van der Dussen, August 2018 (Belgium)
SRS: Dr Suporn, January 2019 (Thailand)
VFS: Dr Thomas, May 2019 (USA)
  •  

anjaq

Ok that i the same fee as I was offered for a personal consultation, but I never made it. I do not believe I saw his website as impressive, maybe it was made new since then.

One thing that prevents him from getting more well known may be that in NL there are probably similar laws as in Germany, basically prohibiting plastic and cosmetic surgeons to make certain types of advertisement and marketing. No before and after pictures are allowed to be shown online, for example. One has to go for a pesonal consult to see them or find others who are willing to share. This is copied in the USA by free choice of Dr Deschamps apparently, who also only does personal cosultations and only shows pictures at that time.

I would be interested to hear more, maybe I will make a trip to NL after all, although at the moment I am a bit reluctant to remove Facialteam from the top of my list unless I get the impression someone else is doing a better job or has less risks.

  •  

tidalflames

Janice...---> I don't seem to be able to private Pm as i'm not too active of member you, but you can reach me on mail: tidalflames666@gmail.com

Just as you, I also prefer less marketing and more direct information when it comes to these things. After All... this is a medical procedure and the esthetics are just part of it.
I can imagine different surgeons are good at different things tho...Like someone is very good at breasts, another one is good with facelifts etc.

Personally, I think this should really be part of the public healthcare systems. I mean... You can get the SRS and breast implants (at least where Im from), but what difference does that make, if you wont be able to pass on the street.
  •  

JaniceNL

I can also ask them here, it might be helpful for those who are also considering Dr. van der Dussen. But the questions might be a little private I don't know if you are willing to share on such a public forum?
  •  

deeiche

Quote from: anjaq on October 13, 2016, 06:53:01 PM
SNIP
This is copied in the USA by free choice of Dr Deschamps apparently, who also only does personal cosultations and only shows pictures at that time.
SNIP
No, this is by law in the US too.

Pictures shown by plastic surgeons were specifically released by the patient.  Why a person would allow  their pictures by used by a surgeon for advertising purposes is beyond me, but they do.
"It's only money, not life or death"
  •  

anjaq

Oh no, I did not mean that any surgeon anywhere is allowed to release pictures without asking. I think most countries have a law against that!

In some European countries like Germany and probably NL, it is prohibited to show pictures online even if the patient is completely ok with this. The surgeon just is not allowed to put pictures online, period. He can only show them in personal consultations. I think the idea behind that law is to disallow commercial advertizing for cosmetic surgeries. Cosmetic surgeries are seen a bit like smoking or drinking - something unhealthy and unneeded and something people should be kept away from unless they really really want to do this, but then they have to find other ways to get informed without this being public.

  •  

tidalflames

Janice--> I think im ok sharing my thoughts here. At least if t can help someone else who are in the same situation.

I also think putting out patients pictures on the homepage for public marketing that some clinics does, might be a bit harsh, considering this is a very sensitive matter. Not every trans woman wants to be outed as trans, when they are thru and pictures on the internet showing befores and after could stay there forever.
On the other hand, its very nice and inspiring seeing before and afters.
For example.., I didn't even knew FFS was possible 3 years ago, but seeing pictures from clinics online actually gave me hope that these things do exist.
  •  

JaniceNL

Hi,

Aren't you on the tg-boards aswell? I believe there was someone there aswell who had bad work done in the past and went to Dr. van der Dussen to fix it?

Anyways, what was your impression of the the Dr. and the hospital? I read that he does the ffs in a hospital instead of a clinic, which is my preference. And how is he price wise? I simply don't have the means to go to the US and spend 30k like some girls do.

And did he do agressive work on your jaw and chin? I know facial team does great forheads but they are less agressive on the jaw and chin.
  •  

anjaq

Now, I really do not believe there are ANY respectable FFS surgeons out there who would put pictures of their patients online without their consent. This is not only usually prohibited by law (patient confidelaty and also the copyright or pictures of oneself), but also would be hugely damaging for the surgeons reputation as most trans women do not want to be public. I personally would refuse, but i know some are very open about being trans and even put out youtube videos themselves or post their pictures online elsewhere, so if they want to share in the context of a surgeon website, its great and I am happy some people exist who are like that, even though I am taking the profit and not delivering much back in that respect, as I just do not want to be out there with my face.

My impression about the pricetag difference between US and EU/Thai surgeons and others is that a big part of it simply is the health costs in those countries. The US has the highest health costs of the world , apparently. Generally. In the US, OTC pharmaceuticals are dead cheap but anything that requires a trained medical person to participate is very expensive. I broke a leg there once - the hospital bills were unbelievable - knowing what the rates are here in Germany. For example look at this:

So more money does not necessarily mean that a surgeon is better, although that can play into it as well as obviously his own share in the overall price would be higher in the US too and a good surgeon may not be willing to work for a lower wage. but especially Thai surgeons can be cheaper since everything is much cheaper in Thailand compared to the US - nurses, rent, supplies and also costs for living.
On the upside, the US has the advantage of having a system for controlling health care that has a good reputation - although I cannot comment on how good it really is, they have all kinds of certifications and such.

The biggest plus to improve the quality of surgical work IMO is specialization. A surgeon who can afford to only do FFS and mot much else will be better at FFS than if he also has to do a dozen other types of surgeries - in Germany this is quite apparent - trans related surgeries are usually less than 10% of the work of a surgeon, often it is less than 2% with just a couple of surgeries done per year - how can one expect them to get really world class good if they cannot gain the experience and routine. US surgeons can do this , apparently, or at least they specialize in surgeries closely related to the trans related surgeries. But I believe someone like van der Dussen or Facialteam can do the same.

OMG, I am ranting! All I wanted to say is that price should not be a consideration - spend more if the surgeon is better, but also do not think a less expensive surgeon has to be worse - just think about quality and not about money

  •  

tidalflames

Im actually not on TG board, so that must be someone else :)

My overall impression was very good. The surgery do take place in a real hospital and the standard is Northern European. Very similar to the public hospitals we have in Scandinavia, with a full narcosis team, high standard etc.
You get an Scan and X rays of everything and its just the same quality as the Belgian population gets if they would have surgery. I believe some of the cost, you pay for the hospital and some goes to the doctor.
The clinic itself where the consultation takes place is small, but yet modern. Its not like some plastic surgery clinics where there lot of people in the reception and super stylish interiors, but more like a traditional doctors office.


You probably don't pay much for risk investors, management or marketing, but rather for the healthcare and hospital staff. Prices wasn't that bad. It was about the same as the other FFS clinics in Europe (except London).

In my case we had to do aggressive work on the chin/jaw as I had a Square masculine chin and it wasn't a very easy operation. My chin was also asymmetric before so they had to move it to balance things out.

I was also considering Dr Spiegel in US for a while (after Gigis recommendations), but being a European citizen, its just easier to travel within the EU and much cheaper.
  •  

anjaq

Do you think the quality of the work of european surgeons like Dussen is the same as Spiegel, then? If it is the same, it makes much more sense to stay in Europe - I do not mind travelling outside if it is worth it, but if there is no gain from it, I prefer to stay in Europe as well.

I wonder, since I saw this now mentioned several times, Which surgeons do not operate in a proper hospital but in some small clinic? I know Factialteam are located in a hospital, you mention Dr Dussen also has that - PAI seems to have that as well - what about the others? Spiegel, Deschamps,Zuchowski, di Maggio, Rossi,.. do they have clinics or hospitals?

  •  

tidalflames

I personally cant really compare with any others or the FFS surgeons, as I only been to Dr Van der Dussen.
I don't really see why American surgeons should be better than European surgeons..tho. I think its more a matter of education and experience.
Northern Europe is very high tech when it comes to healthcare, but Eastern Europe (former USSR) might be a bit more behind.
But I do think he was way better than the "non FFS" surgeons Ive been to.

A lot of private surgeons in Scandinavia don't operate in hospital, but in private clinics with their personal staff and you don't stay over night but going home the same day.
Overall, It seems like the doctors focusing on FFS are often more experienced surgeons (looking on their resumes) from many of the "walk in clinics".

I can imagine this type of surgery is challenging (but maybe very rewarding from a creative point of view) compare to classic esthetic surgery (aka facelifts and fillers)
  •