I am taking voice lessons and don't think I will have much problem speaking in a new voice. However I am deathly afraid of not making the right gestures, not walking appropriately, making rash decisions based on my former self. Nothing says fraud like a dude dressed in a dress who can't present the whole package, or at least not enough to be convincing. How did you handle it? How's it working out for you. My body is large and I often splay myself all over the chair I am sitting in and no lady would ever sit that way. How long did it take to become second nature? How about you baby boomers transitioning?

My voice lessons were with a private instructor in her singing studio.  So, sitting across from each other face-to-face, she could observe not only my face, but my entire body language while training my voice.  She taught me not only how to work on my voice, but how to use appropriate gestures while speaking.  As a man, I never used hand gestures while talking, so this was definitely a new thing for me to learn.

If you're looking for tips on gestures, watch how women talk when they're talking about politics!    People always get passionate when they talk about politics and are very animated with their gestures.  I found political shows, such as CBS' Face the Nation and NBC's Meet the Press to be good resources for this.  Especially when they have a panel of pundits discussing the election.

Correct posture is important so do it when you first sit down. After you sit down, you may cross your hands or use them for something. I often have a camera, keyboard or paper in my hands so that eliminated the need for gestures. If you want, you can use gestures but they aren't required as long as you aren't spread out all over the place. It's more of what you are comfortable with but be careful about putting on an act that will be detected as such.

One ancient voice/comportment technique is to look in film or TV for someone about the same age as yourself. Lots of actresses are almost six feet tall. Sigourney Weaver is that tall as is Nicole Kidman, Jeanna Tripplehorn, and Uma Thermon.

Get videos of their movies and play the part. I will use myself as an example. Years ago I did scenes from The Year of Living Dangerously with Sigourney Weaver, who is about my age and height. Shirley Temple won't work for comportment.   

I would watch a scene, for example when Weaver is having drinks and the tropical rain hits. Of course this is one I chose. Everyone will have a different one. In my clip I don't have a car or hat, but I improvise. Go ahead and think I am silly, but no one needs to see or hear you.

The charm school movement things are helpful, but I find them forced. Personally I did better with a movie scene. I wish I could giggle like Sigourney does in her scene.

Now I can manage with a laugh, "I find them absolutely charming . . ."

Thank you all for your great tips. I was thinking I would have to talk like Maude but there are others I could imitate. I always think in extremes and it is something I am working on. So far with the hormones, it is getting less and less. But we're not there yet. 

Consider going a different route. Given that you are a woman who had to pretend being a man for some years, how about you just do not pretend anymore and allow yourself to just be feminine as you are? Instead of adding an additionally learned package of gestures and behaviour on top of that old male behaviour set.
I believe that, since I always was a girl, I picked up feminine bahaviour and body language from other women while I grew up, I just did not allow myself to use this, only when I came out and allowed myself to drop forever the fake male patterns, I was suddenly able to do all these things. I could not revert to male after I "deleted" those parts which were then replaced by the content of my subconsciously learned female behaviourset. So maybe the key is to really and totally let go of that male part that you had to play and maybe still keep with you out of old habits?

Observe cis women where you live. This will show you how to use vocal inflections. Practice makes perfect. Other mannerisms may be learned via the same method.

I worried about presentation for a long time but eventually friends got me to realize that all women are diffrent. I decided that all of this is so i can be myself not who others think i should be so now i just relax and be myself.

Serena

I can honestly say that hand gestures and mannerisms are what I excel at and that has staved off a lot of doubt in people's minds when they saw me and heard my pre-VFS voice. The only way you can learn about hand gestures and mannerisms is through observation, practice, and throwing yourself into situations where you interact with people (strangers). You have to do all of this daily. Whereas natal women have 30+ years of experience being who they are, you have to accelerate your studies to catch up. This is not as bad as it sounds because through directed self-study, carefully planned interactions, and then impromptu interactions, you'll definitely develop the skills you need.

In the beginning, I encourage you to use your hands a lot and be very expressive with your face to the point of being a little over the top. As time goes on, you'll know by looking at the way people respond to you how much you need to tone the expressiveness down. In the beginning, it will feel a lot like acting. As time progresses, it will become second nature. You want to develop the muscle memory necessary to get the expressiveness into your normal way of speaking and acting. You will need to have some good friends evaluate your expressiveness a couple of times a week. You should also seek the advice of a trusted third-party objective person, too, someone who doesn't know you so well but you still consider a friend.

(About me: I was born in 1968, so I'm just out of the Baby Boomer age range, but my parents always treated me like a Baby Boomer (my dad always called me his Baby Boomer kid) and I skipped a number of grades in school so I've always acted older than I am.)

Quote from: anjaq on October 07, 2016, 06:55:37 AM
Consider going a different route. Given that you are a woman who had to pretend being a man for some years, how about you just do not pretend anymore and allow yourself to just be feminine as you are? Instead of adding an additionally learned package of gestures and behaviour on top of that old male behaviour set.
I believe that, since I always was a girl, I picked up feminine bahaviour and body language from other women while I grew up, I just did not allow myself to use this, only when I came out and allowed myself to drop forever the fake male patterns, I was suddenly able to do all these things. I could not revert to male after I "deleted" those parts which were then replaced by the content of my subconsciously learned female behaviourset. So maybe the key is to really and totally let go of that male part that you had to play and maybe still keep with you out of old habits?

I agree with this quite a bit. I had noticed since I was a teen that I displayed some femme mannerisms. I find that for the most part I just act myself. I have done some vocal training and I do practice although I must admit that I feel rather self conscious about the pitch and quality of my voice.
I find it easier with strangers than with people who knew me pre transition. I worry that people who knew me from before will notice that I am trying to alter my voice whereas strangers don't know that.
Some tips that I think are worth knowing.
When talking to someone, lean towards them it is a form of intimacy that women use often.
Nod your head when speaking affirmatively about something and shake your head lightly when speaking of something negatively.
Mimic the posture and movements of the person you are speaking to, this is sympathetic gesturing that women use.
Hand gestures are good but not just any kind, women tend to have slower, softer sorts of movement, men are more choppy with hand gestures. Hand gestures are best used when they try to illustrate what is being said.
Simply tilting ones head especially if it mirrors the person you are speaking to.
Sitting a bit forward in your chair instead of sinking into it is better, it's easier to cross your legs.
Playing with ones hair is another  especially if one does it in an unconscious looking way.
Those are a few that come to mind.

First, what Anjaq said, one has to let go of the persona that's been constructed and employed for decades.  Absolutely.  Though easier said than done.  Just like any bad habit, it takes work to break it. 

Nature abhors a vacuum, and sometimes what's inside may be too repressed or too forgotten to properly emerge on the spot, so I do think it really helps to play (play) with some new patterns.  Like with clothes on the rack, you don't know they'll fit until you try them on, and some of the cutest things just don't work. 

It also helps to understand what cruft may have accumulated, and to be aware of it.  For example, the rhythm of a conversation -- so often we were trained (or permitted) to talk over other people, to zero in on rational points rather than paying attention to emotional impact, to try and "fix" things rather than simply being sympathetic.  In women's conversations particularly, often there's so much going on.  Conversations have intentions beyond the subject matter.  It's a time to bond, to relax, to vent, and mostly to just be heard.  So be an active conversationalist.  Ask questions.  Nod, mm-hmm, yes.  Frequently give (more) space to the other woman, don't hog it up for yourself if you're not in crisis.  Stay engaged. 

This, I think, is far more important than hand gestures.  Yes, get out of your own way, but it's not a passive thing at all.

Baby Boomer here! I was kind of tense in one situation of my day today. As a result, I realized I was not walking as well (feminine) as I usually can. I was way too tight and tense. Realizing this, I just made myself relax and it was great. The enemy of looking, acting the way you want is being tense. That and confidence are so big! If you don't have confidence then you fake it. You have to go all in with your commitment. If you "hedge your bets" in your mind, it will be seen in your presentation. Nervous behavior draws attention then other things can be noticed.
Monica

Quote from: HappyMoni on October 15, 2016, 11:24:20 PM
Baby Boomer here! I was kind of tense in one situation of my day today. As a result, I realized I was not walking as well (feminine) as I usually can. I was way too tight and tense. Realizing this, I just made myself relax and it was great. The enemy of looking, acting the way you want is being tense. That and confidence are so big! If you don't have confidence then you fake it. You have to go all in with your commitment. If you "hedge your bets" in your mind, it will be seen in your presentation. Nervous behavior draws attention then other things can be noticed.
Monica

Couldn't agree more, especially "Nervous behavior draws attention then other things can be noticed"

No one really gives a <NOT ALLOWED> as long as you don't spread your legs and take up 2-3 seats on the bus/subway or whatever. Like someone else mentioned, why play a part? Isn't the reason for transitioning to feel more free? It's not a part you should have to practice for and live in-character.

Quote from: kanad3 on October 16, 2016, 02:54:51 AMLike someone else mentioned, why play a part? Isn't the reason for transitioning to feel more free? It's not a part you should have to practice for and live in-character.

I kind of disagree with this sentiment.

Transition isn't about feeling free.  It's about addressing gender dysphoria.  Which comes not just from misgendering ourselves, but from being misgendered by other people.  There is so much to overcome -- not just physical embodiment, but voice and sex and socialization and narrative.  Even memories.  All can be sources of dysphoria. They all were for me. So for me, transition was always about getting female gendering.  From everyone, not just myself.

If transition isn't this, then why get hormones, hair removal, surgery, and name changes?  Just behave differently!  Of course, though, this doesn't actually address gender dysphoria.  That's why.

As to manners and conversational style, the biggest thing I think there is to overcome is privilege.  Because that is the greatest source of resentment shared by women in a patriarchal society.  Privilege is something that gets buried deep in the subconscious, so it takes deliberate effort to recognize it, accept it, and rectify it.  Which, in turn, takes "practice" to behave and think differently in the world, to the point where it becomes completely natural. 

I do not really get the point about privilege. But maybe it is because I never really had it as I was bullied and not taken seriously by the boys anyways and transitioned early enough to not get much experience in male privilege on the job. I do have a lot of privileges though, that are not gendered. I am white, middle class, well educated...

I think it was in reference to my statement before that it was said that the point of transitioning is to be free and maybe I should clarify. I personall experienced it that way and apparently this is not the case with others. What heppened to me was, I just had to let go of the trained patterns that let me pass as male for as long as I needed it. So I dropped deliberately walking like a guy and just walked as I like, feminine. I just stopped sitting like a bull in order to look tough and naturally I was sitting feminine and cross my legs and all that. I stopped doing whatever I did with my hands before and let them do gestures if they want and trans people actually told me I should not overdo it with being feminine - I did ot even realize what I was doing. So for me it was mainly to let go and to be free of having to play. I did not have to deliberately learn how to move. I know, its different for others. They feel like they drop the old patterns but are then unsure or in a void as to how to do it now. So for some reason there is no blueprint fot his saved in storage. I guess either one can try and find the blueprints - maybe one did not let fully go of the old persona because one still needs parts of it or needs the comfort of pulling back into it? Or maybe thos eblueprints are just not there and thus have to be learned from others. In that case it is less about just beeing free.

Quote from: anjaq on October 16, 2016, 05:14:27 PM
I do not really get the point about privilege. But maybe it is because I never really had it as I was bullied and not taken seriously by the boys anyways and transitioned early enough to not get much experience in male privilege on the job. I do have a lot of privileges though, that are not gendered. I am white, middle class, well educated...

I think it was in reference to my statement before that it was said that the point of transitioning is to be free and maybe I should clarify. I personall experienced it that way and apparently this is not the case with others. What heppened to me was, I just had to let go of the trained patterns that let me pass as male for as long as I needed it. So I dropped deliberately walking like a guy and just walked as I like, feminine. I just stopped sitting like a bull in order to look tough and naturally I was sitting feminine and cross my legs and all that. I stopped doing whatever I did with my hands before and let them do gestures if they want and trans people actually told me I should not overdo it with being feminine - I did ot even realize what I was doing. So for me it was mainly to let go and to be free of having to play. I did not have to deliberately learn how to move. I know, its different for others. They feel like they drop the old patterns but are then unsure or in a void as to how to do it now. So for some reason there is no blueprint fot his saved in storage. I guess either one can try and find the blueprints - maybe one did not let fully go of the old persona because one still needs parts of it or needs the comfort of pulling back into it? Or maybe thos eblueprints are just not there and thus have to be learned from others. In that case it is less about just beeing free.

Again I would agree with you because I don'y get the idea of being white , male and privileged. It is a concept that is too full of supposed guilt and its apparent infallibility to any argument. No matter ones life experience and situation, if you are white and male you are somehow always at an advantage. Why is there no escape from this and why is there not an understanding that if one is trans female that perhaps we have also suffered in the same way natal cisgender females have.
One of the things that helped me identify was the understanding that I never liked the way a lot of guys act around women. Now that I live as one I find that even more noticeable.
But anyway the OP was wondering about feminine gestures and I am sorry that the discussion drifted away from that because it is a valid concern for those of us who want to incorporate authentic behaviour and make it our own.
It isn't an act it's trial and error until one finds what fits for them.
We are reinventing ourselves after all.

Quote from: DawnOday on September 26, 2016, 05:25:50 PM
I am taking voice lessons and don't think I will have much problem speaking in a new voice. However I am deathly afraid of not making the right gestures, not walking appropriately, making rash decisions based on my former self. Nothing says fraud like a dude dressed in a dress who can't present the whole package, or at least not enough to be convincing. How did you handle it? How's it working out for you. My body is large and I often splay myself all over the chair I am sitting in and no lady would ever sit that way. How long did it take to become second nature? How about you baby boomers transitioning?

I have a friend that teaches Pole Dancing and that's where I learned my walk, hand gesture, posture, and general femininity. Contrary to what one would think, pole dancing is nothing more than the expression of sexuality and feminine form. Just add the aerobic workout of a pole... quite often the instructors are quite adept with getting you where you need to be. Some of the hand gestures and posture will be addressed during voice training. Its all interconnected into what it is that makes a woman.  Even the expansion of your posterior and the counterbalance of breasts will naturally affect your walk, gesture, and posture.  As for having these things come naturally... that's a bit more difficult. Repetition and taking the skills you're learning and making them your own. You don't have to be "exacting" in everything you are learning. It's like writing cursive... you learned what is standard and you embraced it and made yourself a signature that is your own. Same thing.

Harley, thanks for the suggestion. Have you ever seen a linebacker do a pole dance? I used to ballet dance but that stopped around 12 as I was nearing 6' tall, Misty Copeland is 5'2"   Here's the dealio. I am desperate to finish off my life being who I truly always believed I was. Therein lies the rub. I have been tempting fate for the last 25 years and I alway felt my days were numbered. For many years when I went to bed I didn't know if I would wake up. What I have is this deep fear I cannot get all I want to accomplish done in time.  If my wife did not love me in spite of myself, it would pretty much be a no brainer years ago. At least from the early 90's.  I am also an Extreme introvert which makes it very hard to communicate with others. I know what I want to say, but am so sure you don't know what I am talking about that I start to focus on minutia. I also speak in monotone. Everyone can guess who is on the line when I call them. Even my ex who I had not spoken to for 37 years. I'm still in the discovery mode as I knew very little up to 7 months ago. 

Quote from: Sophia Sage on October 16, 2016, 11:54:29 AM
I kind of disagree with this sentiment.

Transition isn't about feeling free.  It's about addressing gender dysphoria.  Which comes not just from misgendering ourselves, but from being misgendered by other people.  There is so much to overcome -- not just physical embodiment, but voice and sex and socialization and narrative.  Even memories.  All can be sources of dysphoria. They all were for me. So for me, transition was always about getting female gendering.  From everyone, not just myself.

If transition isn't this, then why get hormones, hair removal, surgery, and name changes?  Just behave differently!  Of course, though, this doesn't actually address gender dysphoria.  That's why.

As to manners and conversational style, the biggest thing I think there is to overcome is privilege.  Because that is the greatest source of resentment shared by women in a patriarchal society.  Privilege is something that gets buried deep in the subconscious, so it takes deliberate effort to recognize it, accept it, and rectify it.  Which, in turn, takes "practice" to behave and think differently in the world, to the point where it becomes completely natural.

My problem is not privilege because I have had mainly female friends most my life and I am a sucker for a pretty face. However it's because I wished I had that face not because I wanted sex. The subconscious is the problem and it being formed by massive doses of synthetic hormones being administered in utero. Taking estrogen now only reminds my being of what has been missing all these years. I wish I were stronger emotionally and not scared of my shadow.