So, I was talking to one of my boyfriends about my body and sex the other day, because I've been nervous about how he'd feel when we met in person again and potentially had sex.  (He lives in Yukon, I live in Florida, it's a long-distance polyamory thing)  He told me he has a fetish for "d***girls", which was a relief for me, but it got me thinking...

Why do so many members of the trans community have a problem with people who have fetishes for women with penises and men with vaginas?  I mean, it's a pretty harmless body-type fetish, and it can be helpful when guys have it, because it makes them more comfortable with us.  Personally, I'm not too into that sort of thing, because I'm a bit of a conservative, but it seems like the people getting upset about them are alienating a potential ally...

Maybe it's a generational thing?

because when it comes to being in a relationship and looking for love or even just sex, many of us want to be seen and loved as the people we are, not fetishized and desired because of a kink

It's the last thing I'm looking for in a sexual or romantic partner. I do not want someone who looks at the thing I hate the most about myself and find it kinky.

Quote from: kanad3 on October 18, 2016, 10:25:12 AM
It's the last thing I'm looking for in a sexual or romantic partner. I do not want someone who looks at the thing I hate the most about myself and find it kinky.

Agreed, don't want any attention to such a great source of dysphoria.

And then, how does the relationship go after the hated thing has been replaced with what should have always been there in the first place? 

Most of us have been taught that sex is "dirty" so it's easy to look down on people for their desires. Doesn't make it right. We reserve the right to be women with penises, why shouldn't someone be able to reserve the right to be attracted to us?

Hugs, Devlyn

As long as the fetish is respectful of the fetishee's autonomy, I got no problem with it.

Would beat being bullied, that's for sure.

There's nothing wrong with fetishists. There is a problem with turning people into a fetish when they did not ask for it (which is my personal objection). If they did ask for it, then that's fine.

Also, as others have said, if you are into me because of the part of my body that I hate, it's definitely not going to work out.

Ok, I can see the dysphoria thing.  I, personally, don't mind using the penis for sex things, even if it's a bit of a bother. (not as content with my balls, but I'ma give myself some time before I do something about that...)  I wouldn't even mind a mostly-straight guy treating me as a girl and playing around with my annoyingly mismatched parts.  Honestly, it might make it more enjoyable.  I guess for someone who's really upset by it though, someone who wants to play around with it and might lack some self-control with it could be a problem.  Then again, how often do those people enjoy sex?  I really don't know.  I mean, I'm a bit turned off by having one, but it's not a deal-breaker for me, because I'm used to it....

Quote from: Eevee on October 18, 2016, 06:02:38 PMThere is a problem with turning people into a fetish when they did not ask for it

Ok, I'm gonna have to turn this around on you: they didn't ask to have a fetish for it.  They just do.  Some women have penises, and some otherwise straight men are really turned on by the mind-****ery of that.  It's not their fault, and as Devlyn said, it's not something we should treat as "dirty".

If we want people to be understanding and tolerant with our sexuality, we have to be understanding and tolerant of everyone's.

Quote from: PrincessCrystal on October 18, 2016, 07:05:05 PM
Ok, I'm gonna have to turn this around on you: they didn't ask to have a fetish for it.  They just do.  Some women have penises, and some otherwise straight men are really turned on by the mind-****ery of that.  It's not their fault, and as Devlyn said, it's not something we should treat as "dirty".

If we want people to be understanding and tolerant with our sexuality, we have to be understanding and tolerant of everyone's.

That's not actually what I was talking about at all. I said in the same post that you quoted that there is nothing wrong with someone having a fetish. Heck, I am friends with far too many people in a BDSM club for me to find that strange. I really don't care.

I am objecting to something entirely different. I can't stand it when someone with that fetish insists on making me, personally, the object of their fetish. While it is okay to ask me about it in the first place, obviously, it gets really frustrating when I am to blame for rejecting those types of advances.

Think of it this way. I do not have a foot fetish. If someone has a foot fetish, I also don't care that they do. When they want to make advances on me and insist that their intentions involve my feet, I am going to have to turn them down. If it is left at that, we're golden. If they get upset at me because I turned them down over their fetish, then it is not my problem. They can have their fetish all they want, but I do not have to include myself in it in order to respect it.

I am not so sure I have a problem with someone who is up front about wanting someone who is "in the middle" so to speak.  The issue for me arises when 95% of the population looks at ME as having some sort of fetish or kink for simply existing in the state I choose...which really has nothing to do with sex.  There really is the perception that anyone choosing to transition is somehow equivalent to the porn that is so widely available.

I would much rather have someone be upfront and honest with me about their proclivities so that I can choose to proceed or decline on truth.  Otherwise, they are working on the assumption that I am into their fantasy when I am not even aware that it exists.

Human sex is anyway a product of fantasy. The major sex organ of Homo sapiens sapiens is the brain, not the genitalia.

http://www.pnas.org/content/112/50/15468.full.pdf

Acknowledge the diversity of sexual preference, and you do not like it, then just say 'No'.

barbie~~

I don't have a problem with fetishists any more than I would with people who prefer small boobs, but there had better be more to the relationship than that.  If all we have in common is my genitals and hir liking for them on a feminine body then I don't see any basis for an ongoing relationship.

I'm more kinky than not and most of the people I get involved with are similar. Happily this often means we've got experience with expressing what we like and that's actually my most important desire in a partner so I select for that.

One problem is if you're each chasing a fetish and they're not matched then we can be like ships in the night passing without ever actually seeing one another. I project my desire onto them and they onto me.

I think this can be inevitable, and of course I could be projecting my experience in this, if there is really a vanilla experience of sexuality I've never experienced it.

I also experience this in my relationship to my own body. I'm not wild about having a penis and in my mind's eye I'm femme. This has meant to get to release I feel femme and I stimulated what I have (penis) and I can't really focus on fantasy because if I'm picturing myself as femme I'm not generally able to do suspension of disbelief and so the fiction breaks down and the erotic momentum fails. I'm also pretty strongly aspergian and so my sense of touch is just different from those with normally tempered brains.

Instead, I fetishize femme attire, for sex this means lingerie and I dress to feel attractive. I take pleasure in either my partner's looks and /or getting my partner off (usually that's a girl and certainly I'm living vicariously through her body).

And usually my partner (virtually always with my SO) is focused on my penis and other male attributes (she's given to caressing my shoulders which are broad and muscular, for me this is intensely dysphoric, I know what it means to her and I can't easily dissociate).

And so in these ways were ships passing unseen. Where we do connect is I genuinely enjoy getting her off and that can usually happen without me focusing on the mechanics, hence avoiding dysphoria. That said I rarely orgasm during penetrative sex, once in 2015, 3 times in '14 and not at all for '16 since starting HRT.

Back to my own experience, since HRT and having a plan for SRS I am far more able to project myself to a place of envisioning myself as female. The bigger difference is that I'm able to get to orgasm now without engaging fantasy, I still like my fetishes to get in the mood but where i used to have to engage the fantasy right through the finish, now miraculously I can get there by touching my breasts or where my vagina will be. This is completely new and it feels so good to just be present to sensation, not chasing a fantasy or pushing away dysphoria.

Here's a problem with guys with a trans fetish (there's a term for them but I'm not allowed to use it on Susan's):

A guy who will date you and have sex with you but won't introduce you to any of his friends let alone family, avoids taking you out anywhere he would be seen by friends. This just reeks of transphobia and is the main reason I don't date outside of the queer/kinky community.

<EDIT> the other problem with 'that guy' is he will make all the other pretences that it's an actual relationship and perhaps from his view it is - we may not see out own prejudices or be able to take ownership of them.

I didn't post this in my own experiences because I haven't had the experience directly. I do get some of this from my GF but she's getting better and if she doesn't want me to be out in the context of my family that's ok, I'm not out with a lot of my family either.