The word "transition" implies changing state -- there's movement from one state of being to another, and that liminal space in between is what's actually transitory.  So, where do you all weigh in on this?  How do you know it's actually over?

I think that's different for every individual.

I think the universal answer for everyone is - when you are happy in your own body and with your own social identity.

I voted "never" but I haven't lived long enough to really know yet   I have been out and on HRT for years and had my Orchi too and am gradually coming around to the place where this is just life and being trans in transition is, fortunately, not 24/7 thinking anymore.  I know some folks who no longer consider themselves trans but simply another man or woman with a private history after transition.

I would hope that personal growth and development continue as long as possible in anyones life.  Gender identity is intrinsic for me but, as a non binary person, being accustomed and comfortable with gendered roles and cultural expectations is another story.

I like to push open the envelop on what is possible and can imagine a time where our culture matures about all things now too queer to handle, like sex.

I think it's different for every individual, but I think it's over when you feel comfortable and happy with yourself. Just don't mind about what others think or say, and you'll find that 90% of your worries about how you look will disappear. Love who you are and be true to yourself. I currently am dealing with trying not to worry about others, it's not easy, but I think I am doing some progress, being at, maybe 65% of not giving a **ap. I am loving discovering myself.

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It pretty much feels over for me, social & legal part is done. Bottom surgery is left so I guess that will be my end but I already feel like I'm finished in a way because I don't really deal with anything trans wise in my life anymore. It rarely comes up nowadays and sometimes I even forget I transitioned, its a really weird feeling of normalcy. Weird in the sense that like when I realize what I've been through to get here, it feels so surreal. Even my early transition photos feel foreign to me cause it was so long ago and I looked so different. I was in transition for such a long time so I guess its not that much of a surprise.

Quote from: Sophia Sage on October 23, 2016, 11:26:26 PM
The word "transition" implies changing state -- there's movement from one state of being to another, and that liminal space in between is what's actually transitory.  So, where do you all weigh in on this?  How do you know it's actually over?

I agree with others... my personal belief is that it ends when one has a sense that major transitional tasks have been completed. I think only the person going through transition can even come close to estimating when transition ends, much less be precise about it.

*
Coming from the old days through Stanford and Janus, ultimate transition ended when the person completed their course - meaning completed genital surgery to meet the anatomical definition of female within the possibilities of contemporary medical science.

Such actions as electrolysis, FFS, thyroid shave were defined as preliminary and culminated at GCS / SRS (aka, 'bottom surgery').

Both Stanford and Janus could at least unofficially acknowledge that while perhaps 100% of all participants desired 'bottom surgery' and that was their universal goal, only 25% to 30% of all enrollees went as far as 'bottom surgery' for any number of reasons.  Those who de-transitioned went back to what they were in their 'before', namely 'male'.  Those who did not go as far as 'bottom surgery' could still be medically, legally, socially, psychologically termed 'female'; they continued living and presenting as female.  Those 'not complete' patients had to deal with their atomic anomaly in their own way.

One of Stanford's direct requirements in their 1977 guidelines was the provision that the individual be perceived and accepted as a woman, not as a transsexual, as a pre-requisite to 'bottom surgery'.

Of course, one could meet all the paper requirements but fall short financially.  They presented and were acknowledged as female by their society's circles.

This all is not to say that doctors know for themselves.  I had been post-op and full-time nearly 30 years when I landed with a new endocrinologist.  She told me that I am her first (and still only) trans patient.  My initial identification in my medical file from her reports me as 'male'.  At first I kinda shrugged my shoulders.  After a few visits, I asked her why she listed me as 'male' when in fact I had been female all those years before I was her patient.  She had no answer or objection; she corrected my identification to female.  She wrote a letter to Social Security Administration that was awkward as well; but hey, it did the job for SSA, that was all that mattered to me, so I had no complaints.

Allow me to share that I participate in '3rd Space' meetings at one trans group.  These members do not concern themselves with any obligation to 'pass' as female any further than whatever steps they have chosen, or maybe none at all.  They extend that envelope and definition.

Aside from the definitions in the legal books, the answer depends upon who you ask and what is their definition of when they define transition as complete.

*

Just to weigh in on my own question,

I think where we want to go, and where we eventually end up, actually defines the end of transition, because sometimes the destination changes along the way.  To me, transition is movement, and when we stop moving -- when we stop wanting to move -- we are, de facto, at the end of the journey.  Perhaps a new journey then begins, and like Tessa suggest, perhaps we're always in one transition or another, and perhaps we need to be just to stay alive and not stagnate (which is distinctly different from "treading water," which still requires movement).

I kind of deliberately made the poll such that my own answer wasn't there -- I do think the end is more subtle than what we typically think of when starting the journey.  For me, transition ended when I finished the things I needed to be gendered female in all spheres of my life.  Which, ironically, wasn't exactly "happy and comfortable" with my body and social role, though that comes close.  I mean, I certainly wasn't unhappy, but I had a lot of mixed emotions about it.

If there's a single moment when I think my transition finally ended, it was when I first had sex with a man post-op -- not only was I no longer in recovery from the operation, I was now actively engaged with the word in this respect.  It was just a one-night stand, a cute guy I picked up at the bar.  I stayed "mum" on my medical history.  It was a mind-blowing experience, full of contradictions -- like how he could be so gentle and so violent at the same time, how I could be so totally right in my own body and yet a fumbling virgin at the same time.  And so forth.

The morning after, I was sore and achey deep inside.  "Is this how it feels for all the other women in the world?"  Maybe, perhaps, for some.  I felt like I was walking around that part of myself, a bow-legged cowgirl, though the mirror told me I was walking normally, just like any other day.  But it was at this point that I realized I didn't have to "do" anything else, that I had "arrived," and yet despite my intense joy I was also anxious, and yearning, and even a bit scared, because now I knew I wanted more, and there was my whole life in front of me, waiting for me to step into it and run like the wind. 

Except the first "geographic" feature of this internal landscape was a cliff, and I was at the precipice, like The Fool in those old Tarot cards, and the next step was actually going to be a leap of faith.  Before I could run, I would have to fly.  Happy and comfortable?  Yes, but also terrified and uncomfortable as all get out.  But I realized, it was this cliff I had always been heading towards, even if I wasn't always aware of it.

For me, transition will "end" when I don't have to think about transition anymore.  When I can simply live my life as a woman in all aspects of my life - both physically and socially, then I will consider it "done." 

Quote from: EmilyMK03 on October 24, 2016, 10:46:49 AM
For me, transition will "end" when I don't have to think about transition anymore.  When I can simply live my life as a woman in all aspects of my life - both physically and socially, then I will consider it "done."

So did you check the "No More Coming Out" choice?

Quote from: Sophia Sage on October 25, 2016, 12:54:37 AM
So did you check the "No More Coming Out" choice?

No.  Besides, how is "After Fully Coming Out" different from "No More Coming Out"?  They seem like the same thing to me.

Neeevveeerrr... Even when I'm "finished", I'm sure that modern technology will come up with new surgeries and other procedures. Think about all of the things which are impossible with current technologies, and then imagine them being resolved.

Transition ends when you personally decide it ends. I think everyone considers a successful transition differently.

I'd argue life ends when one ceases to grow and evolve. 

It seem that transition an ongoing process that continues throughout life.  While specific milestones might be achieved in the process, it's a lifelong evolution that never really comes to completion.

Quote from: diana-trans on October 24, 2016, 02:19:47 AM
I think it's different for every individual, but I think it's over when you feel comfortable and happy with yourself. Just don't mind about what others think or say, and you'll find that 90% of your worries about how you look will disappear. Love who you are and be true to yourself. I currently am dealing with trying not to worry about others, it's not easy, but I think I am doing some progress, being at, maybe 65% of not giving a **ap. I am loving discovering myself.

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Sorry to slow up the discussion.

However, I want to welcome diana-trans. She joined us a while ago but may not have gotten an official welcome.

I also want to share some links with you. They are mostly welcome information and the rules that govern the site. If you have not had a chance to look through them, please take a moment to:

• Site Terms of Service and rules to live by
  
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Once again, welcome to Susan's. Look around, ask questions and join in.

With warmth,

Joanna


In answer to the question, I think when you get to a point of not really thinking about it. Even if changes are still occurring. Acceptance with contentedness?

Quote from: EmilyMK03 on October 25, 2016, 01:15:57 AM
No.  Besides, how is "After Fully Coming Out" different from "No More Coming Out"?  They seem like the same thing to me.

When you're simply living your life as a woman in all respects, physically and socially, "coming out" as trans can certainly get you thinking about it again. 

I can't answer, because the answer is none of the above: It ends when you're comfortable with your body and lifestyle.  This is something that people who study this professionally all seem to agree on.

As of this point, I expect I'll be done when I look in the mirror, naked, and see a pretty girl.  The rest, like being full-time, is just fluff to me.  I don't have strong enough dysphoria for being in boy-mode that I feel the need to present as female with people who aren't comfortable with it, nor do I really care what I'm presenting as while working.

To me, transition ends when you have accomplished all the changes you wish to make.  For some people, that may happen quickly; for others, it may never happen.

To me I think it ends when all the thoughts of trans this and that have simply faded out of your minds, you no longer think about it, it no longer stresses us. Weither we pass or not, we are happy within ourselves, that is when transition is over.
I know alot will never reach the stage of not thinking about it, it always nagging at the back of our minds :/
I am only 3 months in to HRT, so I have a way to go yet, but I hope I get ther one day, And I hope the rest of you do too

To anyone else I would echo the end is when you are happy wherever that may be.

For myself SRS is definitely my finish line.

All historic friends and family all know I've changed with a massive increase in love (not even a question of acceptance they simply love me and I love them too but they hated him and with good reason)
New friends just know me as Jerrica and my gender is never questioned (I even had doubts about my new friend questioning or knowing until she referred to periods during our chat and her saying "you know what I mean" to which I smiled and agreed without a thought)
Strangers also always just see me which is great because I am just me

To the world I already am just another woman; nothing remarkable just another regular woman.

I am a normal woman and feel as such as long as I am at least wearing a pair of knickers but.....

I cannot let anyone see me naked as I feel ashamed and disfigured about my genitalia.
Every time I have to strip for my shower or even go to the loo I sigh at that which makes me different even right now thinking about it.

The thought that it not only marks me as different but the knowledge that my genitals can actually kill me if my meds were stopped has been terrifying at times especially when I had delays getting a new batch. I actually had to consider a lemming impression or self surgery and nobody should ever have to think about such things as being their only 2 choices if something happens.

After SRS I can then only die like any other woman and I like that a lot.

The last piece of him to be removed and the last piece of me to be fixed.

Being able to see myself naked without experiencing revulsion, the knowledge that I am safe from T poisoning, the freedom to not fear a wardrobe malfunction while swimming or wearing tight clothing and finally for the freedom to have my ultimate treat to go for a spa day to get a top to toe massage.

As for future relationships and sex I'll think about them when I grow up and worry about it like any other girl.
Sure I can't have any more kids and I'll have a history (most of which I can't remember anyway) but so do many women.

So yeah defo SRS for the end of this transition.

As for growing up from girl to woman I'm sure that'll have plenty of fun to be discovered and it's share of heartaches but such is life for all women.