Have you heard about stories where cis-people (and non-binaries) believed they were transsexual, but later found out they weren't?
I'm just curious. I have heard a lot of people saying that there are mostly transsexual and sometimes non-binary people who questioning their gender, but cis people usually don't. It might be true it's rare cisgender people questioning their gender. But do cisgender people ever questioning their gender? Do it exist cisgender people and non-binary people who believes they are transsexual, before they realize they aren't? The media talks much about transsexual people who transition, but very rare about detransition/people who regret. The media mention cisgender people who thinks they are transgender even rarer.

I always thought the definition of cisgender was a person who didn't question their gender.  If you question it, you are somewhere on the trans spectrum.

Quote from: KathyLauren on October 31, 2016, 01:55:57 PM
I always thought the definition of cisgender was a person who didn't question their gender.  If you question it, you are somewhere on the trans spectrum.

Perhaps? I've no idea, since it's hard to keep myself updated at all these labels, terms and definitions. But what if a cisgender person assigned male at birth questioning their gender, but later found out they do identify themselves as the assigned sex; identify themselves as a guy? Are they still considered cis or are they considered trans?

Take it for what it is worth......

During the Maryland Senate sub-committee hearings for the Trans-Rights, aka Bathroom Bill, the loyal opposition trotted out 2-3 people who claimed that they, or their child was "tricked" into believing they were trans, went as far as having GCS and then..... OMG I am really Cis 

Oh, did I mention that they were testifying for the loyal opposition, otherwise known as the Bathroom Nutz?

I think they do exist in very rare cases, most likely a form of OCD, although I hesitate to call it such given how fervently that specific canard has been taken up by anti-trans activists. It is possible that it could be the case, although very rare, however, I expect dealing with such situations is integrated into the WPATH/Harry Benjamin Guidelines.
As one of my lecturers says, "when you hear hoofbeats, don't expect zebras"
Also, there is sometimes a conflation between gender identity and gender expression, one biologically determined and one determined by social constructs. A guy can be feminine, and a girl can be masculine. It does not necessarily make them trans, neither does a masculine/butch gender expression make a trans-girl a man.
However, while these individuals may have individual expressions, their identity is congruent with the way they perceive themselves and how others perceive them (part of our perception of ourselves is in how others perceive us). If you find your identity is incongruent with how you perceive yourself, or indeed wish to be perceived, then you are probably trans (although in the end only you can tell yourself that for sure).
Horses, not zebras.
Doubts are normal, but don't let them stop you from doing what you think is right.
Detransition rates are very low, mainly based on those who transitioned outside of the WPATH standards of care, as I think Walt Heyer did. Also, sometimes included are those forced to detransition for medical reasons / having children, who then decide to retransition at a later date. There is nothing wrong with detransition, as long as you think it's the right thing for you to do, just make sure you actually think that though and that it's not just depression talking, depression is a liar. Furthermore, many of those who detransition (even Walt) still wish they could live as their preferred gender if they could just magically wake up exactly how they would want to be. In my opinion those people are still trans, they just made a decision, which must be respected (regardless of the outcome) not to transition.

As for people who claim that they were "tricked" (similar to the case of Charles (formerly Samantha) Kane or Walt Heyer) I find that they are just bitter and embarrassed and try to find a way to normalise their experiences by dragging the rest of the world down with them. I would say it's reprehensible, but I just feel pity for them instead.

I have seen several instances of apparently cisgender people "deciding" that they are transgender and later changing their mind.  In all cases, there was a mental pathology behind their choices.  I saw the story of two people in a video documentary somewhere.  I recall that one of them actually had a diagnosis for borderline personality disorder.  (This is a disorder where the person does not really know who they are, so they tend to "try on" different personas.  You can see how this would be a problem.)  The other person was assigned male at birth, transitioned to female at 20, then detransitioned back to male at 40.  As a female he was beautiful and desirable, and as a male he had far, far more muscle than a standard transition dose of testosterone would give you.  I got the impression that both transitions had more to do with the effect he wanted to have on other people than with how he felt about what he saw in the mirror.

My ex-husband is a tall, muscular, gorgeous, ex-Navy pilot, ex-airline pilot, has Masters in engineering, etc. He was a great husband in many ways, great dancer, gave me two-hour foot rubs every night, etc. BUT he was very jealous of anything that took my attention off of him, gossipy, a Mama's boy, treacherous, rigid, fussy..girly in some ways..even ironed his shirts and pants every day, dressed impeccably.

We divorced in 2010 and I moved to Thailand to teach, where an old friend outed me as a partial transmale. I then realized I've thought of myself as male all my life, but I have enough female identity to stay as I am. Besides, Thailand accepts a Third gender, so nobody cares what you call yourself or how you dress. I'm asexual/demisexual, so never bothered to pursue another relationship, although people of both genders kept trying to interest me.

A few months ago my ex started emailing me on some pretext, saying that he missed me, that he wished he were as brave as I am (I'd told him I'm partially transmale),said he wanted to come out as bisexual. I told him off, said I wasn't interested, and beside, wasn't he still married? Not my problem.

But after a month or so he returned to the chase..he wanted to move to Thailand, his wife had health problems so couldn't have relations, thought sex was dirty, he wanted to come out as bi. I gave him the same irritated response, saying I had no intention of being his halfway house while he dated men.

BUT then, several days ago, he said he is going to transition to live as a woman. He said he feels more like an "other" if he were to check a gender box, but wants to dress as a woman and grow breasts. And, move to Thailand and be with me, because I'm the only man for her.

This has me floored. He had my attention at "You're the only man for me!"

I'm a bit puzzled. It seemed to come out nowhere. Can people suddenly be trans?? I guess, that was true in my case, so I can't really dismiss him. But he's still married, and taking care of a sick wife (he says) who can barely walk.
He was a treacherous sort in the past, and I keep wondering if this is some ploy to gain my sympathy, plus give him a valid reason to dump his marriage.

Another weird thing; I'm very attracted to tall, muscular women and transwomen, although not sexually, being demisexual. I had just been thinking that my "ideal mate" would be a female version of my ex.

I'm used to transwomen telling tales of feeling that way all their lives..this is weird.

WHAT???

Raell,

Welcome to the site.

There is a lot of tough stuff you have shared in your post. Thanks for sharing it. It almost feels more like an introduction. While we discourage cross posting(posting the same thing in two areas) I could see splitting this off the current topic and moving it to introductions then writing a different comment for this topic. If you would like that to happen, just post in this topic and I will take care of it(the splitting and moving of this one into intros).

This sounds just a little complex. I will not go too far off the topic of this thread and welcoming you; except, to ask if your ex is seeing a gender therapist. I would highly encourage them to before making any more major decisions. Just all seems fast and rash in the face of a somewhat challenging(traumatic) situation they are dealing with.

I also want to share some links with you. They are mostly welcome information and the rules that govern the site. If you have not had a chance to look through them, please take a moment to:

• Site Terms of Service and rules to live by
  
• Standard Terms and Definitions
  
• Post Ranks (including when you can upload an avatar)
  
• Reputation rules
  
• News posting & quoting guidelines
  
• Photo, avatars, and signature images policy
  

Once again, welcome to Susan's. Look around, ask questions and join in.

With warmth,

Joanna

Raell, people cannot suddenly be trans, but they can be transgender and so deeply closeted as to be in denial about it all their life, and they can suddenly start to put aside the denial.  It was that way with me.  I attempted transition three prior times in my life, but kept telling myself I was a man, and that I was just doing research out of curiosity.

BUT:  This is an extremely serious phase of life issue that needs to be addressed by a gender therapist (and maybe a general therapist as well).  I tend to be extremely suspicious of any seemingly mature adult or person in middle age who suddenly says "I'm transgender" unless the next thing they say is "I signed up to see a gender therapist," or "I saw a gender therapist and got diagnosed."

The red flags go up fast when someone wants to skip the therapy or keeps finding reasons to put it off indefinitely, especially where they either seem to want to use their newfound transgender status to influence relationships with others or where they run off and start suddenly living a transgender lifestyle without regard for the feelings of others around them, and I've seen both.  WPATH standards exist for a reason.

You said your ex husband was jealous of anything that took your attention off him, and that he was treacherous in the past.  I would not accept any claim that he was transgender until and unless a therapist had made a differential diagnosis and ruled out other things, such as narcissistic personality disorder -- which your description of him is consistent with.  I am not saying he has any other disorder.  I am just saying don't take his word for it that he is transgender.

Now the disclaimer:  I am not a therapist and these are just my opinions.

imo a lot of people (within the past couple years especially) are confusing gender roles with gender identity. this is leading some people who are not transsexual to begin transitioning if they are comfortable with their body, but don't live by traditional gender roles. this ends badly and they end up getting body dysphoria for going on HRT/etc. just something i have observed online. gender roles =/= gender identity, important to remember

I'm sure plenty of people do regret it because many transsexuals are treated like second class citizens.

Quote from: Xirafel on November 03, 2016, 07:35:07 AM
I'm sure plenty of people do regret it because many transsexuals are treated like second class citizens.

I'm not talking about people who regrets because discrimination etc. I'm asking if you have heard about cis-people (People who aren't trans') who believes they were trans before figuring out they aren't. Anyway, thanks for reply.

By and large i think if someone says they are trans, they are. Now that doesnt mean they need to do hrt, surgery, ect. It could be non binary, trans-feminine, tom-boy, femboy, ect. First thing is always first, counseling. With that said i also say regret is generally very little. Some people regret it and are bitter and big babies about it (ex Walt Heyer) whereas others jumped the plunge but took responsibility for it and  also by and large are pretty cool people in general ( ex Danielle Bunten Berry). I must say regret is almost always non-existent tho. But therapy is a must!!

Quote from: SailorMars1994 on November 03, 2016, 12:15:40 PM
By and large i think if someone says they are trans, they are. Now that doesnt mean they need to do hrt, surgery, ect. It could be non binary, trans-feminine, tom-boy, femboy, ect. First thing is always first, counseling. With that said i also say regret is generally very little. Some people regret it and are bitter and big babies about it (ex Walt Heyer) whereas others jumped the plunge but took responsibility for it and  also by and large are pretty cool people in general ( ex Danielle Bunten Berry). I must say regret is almost always non-existent tho. But therapy is a must!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have self-doubt frequently, but only because the image I see in the mirror isn't the way I feel inside. I've tried for so long to develop my body to fit the role I was assigned as a male. So, one could argue that I'm a trans woman who regrets ever repressing her feelings because she wanted to "go with the flow". I spent much of my time studying the Tao Te Ching and it helped me to accept "my place" as it was given to me, but I failed to realize that the very same book doesn't necessarily advocate going with the flow, at all. I won't go down the rabbit hole on that one, but everybody who I've come out to has said that it was unexpected and that they didn't see it coming. They said that I don't act effeminate at all and that I only show manly characteristics. As difficult as it was hearing that, it only highlighted that I was able to fill the role I was assigned quite well and that I had done a good job of hiding in plain sight.

It has been a breath of fresh air for me to continue taking steps toward my goal of presenting how I feel. I'm making the right choice, in my perspective. I doubt that I'll regret transitioning.

Quote from: groudon18 on November 03, 2016, 04:15:53 AM
imo a lot of people (within the past couple years especially) are confusing gender roles with gender identity. this is leading some people who are not transsexual to begin transitioning

I'd just throw a caution note here.   While I like feminine clothing, they don't really do beans for my identity disconnect, perhaps because none of the other women in my life actually wear feminine clothing, lol.   However, roles DO, for me.   Basically, I find relief and comfort in emulating and adopting the various roles my grandmother had in her home.   

Someone could take your viewpoint, observe me in my shorts and tshirt, saying, "I'm trans..."; and question whether I was actually transgender.     Now, to a certain extent, I can shrug and say, "don't care"; Informed Consent, judgmental folks can take a hike.   But eventually, I'll need to run down the wpath checkoffs in order to pursue grs; and I'd really appreciate it if folks with very narrow views of transgender behavior, didn't get in my way.  Not accusing you specifically of anything, just that it wasn't long ago that transgender people coached each other in order to tell the psych what they wanted to hear.   I'd like to get additional value out of that psychiatrist, and not lie, but I have to break the standard narrative to do it.

:-D

QuoteWhile I like feminine clothing, they don't really do beans for my identity disconnect

This is a key concept.  Many struggle over gender issues, most of us are soothed by wearing gender congruent clothing (which I personally distinguish as much different than "crossdressing" for its own sake) as part of the desire to assume gender congruent behaviors and social roles.

I had something of an epiphany recently with the help of my therapist and resumption of a meditation practice.   I was able to diffuse the dysphoria to negligible levels, mainly through the meditation practice.  If you have not done formal meditation (I'd learned the Zen discipline) it is perhaps not immediately obvious how this worked for me.  Best I can do to explain it is this:  I was able to gain substantially greater understanding and insight into my internal psychological milieu where I realized the intrinsic nature of my identity was an aspect of my internal identity and consciousness and not dependent upon my physical body or the details of my social roles.  Whether this releaf from dysphoria and the very strong desire I had to dress gender congruently as well as torture of internal debate about the seeming impossibility of transition given my current life situation. 

This was an unexpected outcome for me, shocking in fact.  I was on the verge of seeking HRT prior to starting therapy and resuming meditation.  To be clear, I don't consider myself any less trans now than prior to all this.  Moreover, I am not suggesting that this is the solution to avoid transition.  In a perfect world (or if I were stronger and able to face the overwhelming task of transition) I would probably transition.   I am just tickled pink that I've found a way to manage dysphoria. 

QuoteI'd like to get additional value out of that psychiatrist, and not lie, but I have to break the standard narrative to do it.

So to this point, I was entirely forthright with my therapist and it led to a very good outcome.  I don't think my experience is necessarily typical of,  or extensible to most.  For many, it is so obvious that full transition is the only path to follow.  For others, the path is not so clear.  I was clearly in the later category and very happy I went into therapy with an open mind.  Also, I chose a therapist who was very experienced in gender therapy but primarily an extensively experienced PhD therapist who does the entire range of psychotherapeutic methodologies as well as psychoanalysis.

As it is often said on in this forum, YMMV.

Steph

Quote from: Sebby Michelango on October 31, 2016, 01:17:53 PM
Have you heard about stories where cis-people (and non-binaries) believed they were transsexual, but later found out they weren't?
I'm just curious. I have heard a lot of people saying that there are mostly transsexual and sometimes non-binary people who questioning their gender, but cis people usually don't. It might be true it's rare cisgender people questioning their gender. But do cisgender people ever questioning their gender? Do it exist cisgender people and non-binary people who believes they are transsexual, before they realize they aren't? The media talks much about transsexual people who transition, but very rare about detransition/people who regret. The media mention cisgender people who thinks they are transgender even rarer.

Yes, I have. I've seen people who said they were trans/non-binary and 3 or 4 years on didn't get any surgeries and decided it was just a phase of some sort and reverted back to whatever they were doing before it.

Yes, some of them do question it. And most of them that I know of don't go a whole lot further than that. If they do, they are very likely to be trans and not cis.

Actually I think some media outlets focus a lot MORE on detransitioning people and people who regretted, than healthy and happy trans people, and some of these do have very conservative agendas so it's no surprise.

Quote from: T.K.G.W. on November 03, 2016, 07:55:23 PM
Yes, I have. I've seen people who said they were trans/non-binary and 3 or 4 years on didn't get any surgeries and decided it was just a phase of some sort and reverted back to whatever they were doing before it.

Yes, some of them do question it. And most of them that I know of don't go a whole lot further than that. If they do, they are very likely to be trans and not cis.

Actually I think some media outlets focus a lot MORE on detransitioning people and people who regretted, than healthy and happy trans people, and some of these do have very conservative agendas so it's no surprise.

Another factor to consider is while many people can be trans, many of them may want to transition, just how many "Need" to? Doing a full social and medical transition is a MAJOR life change fraught with many challenges still in today's world.

I have absolutely zero doubt I am tans. I felt this way since I was like 4. I also spent may years fighting it, doing "What was expected". It was an easier path to take after 2 previous  failed transition experiments.

I am thankful my GD is not so overwhelming that there is no other viable option for me then transition. Yet I needed to "Transition". I changed a heck of a lot these past 7 years. Most days I don't "Need" to do a full social transition, just want to. But it's not a perfect world, I have other options available which allow me to balance many to all my conflicting needs most of the time.

I'm in an odd place. I was assigned female at birth, but when my mother said "no" to more than two kids, my father raised me as male. I was punished severely for any interest in anything feminine. I was praised when I showed male behavior. My father viciously taught me how to present as male; vocal tones, word choice, body language, stride, taking up space, I could go on. My father frequently told me I was the son he wanted; I believe he would have been delighted if I chose to transition to male. I am misgendered despite wearing very femme clothing because of this. I've worked on some of it, but I only have so many spoons.

In addition, I have a severe case of PCOS, and my voice dropped and cracked during puberty. My voice is more masculine than feminine, unless I specifically pitch it higher. When I was tested, I had cis male levels of T, and that had an effect. I have a more masculine body shape, and significant upper arm muscles and broad shoulders. Even with HBC (which other trans women have said is equivalent to HRT), my T levels are still very high for a cis woman. And my experiences have not been that of a cis woman; because of being misgendered, I am taken for "one of the guys" and gain some amount of male privilege. I also have significant body hair and it is extremely dysphoric.

While my body is female, I identify under the trans* umbrella but I don't have a specific word to describe me. I'm not sure if there is one. I know I'm not cis, and have for a few years now. I still struggle with feelings of appropriation, because I don't have the same challenges that trans women face. At the same time, I'm not always gendered as a woman, either. Every time I'm misgendered, it triggers dysphoria.

I'm not sure if this is relevant to the subject, but I wrote it out, so I'll post it anyway. <3