Quote from: Denjin on August 26, 2016, 05:32:38 AM
Thanks for the comments.   I'm definitely not heavy - I'm tall and skinny.  I did have better resonance before all of I find that when I get the resonance right I'm also raising the pitch, which I shouldn't be doing now.

Why not? I think this is what those with 260 Hz recordings do, they try to hit a different resonance - and in the process the pitch changes. It was the same pre OP - when I did the resonance change, my pitch went from mid-lower male range to neutral range. I think it is linked. If I really try to change resonance, my pitch goes up from 180 to 220 or even 260 Hz on average... I feel odd then, though:
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1S4OwgFxZqs 220 Hz
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1qaTiz0J13g 270 Hz

So it's a bit of a choice which pitch and resonance to use post OP - there are better choices now than pre OP for sure (even reaching my usual 180 Hz would have been a strain pre OP) - but also its a it hard to find a good spot that feels good and also does not hurt or strain

Thanks, Anja. Both recordings sound good to me, but I prefer the slightly lower one. If I do a similar recording, the high pitch is a bit strained...

As for why I didn't think I should be raising pitch.  Basically, Dr. Kim said to 'just speak' and not to strain the throat muscles or anything.  However, proper resonance does require some amount of throat muscle use.  I'll do a recording later today once I'm all warmed up where I try a little bit.

Yes - I tried to speak as relaxed as possible post OP, but basically what is the result of that is that the pitch is lower than his estimated target and that I had a lot of breathiness - if I really want to change resonance and breathiness, it is needed to have some tension in the vocal muscles. So if I am really relaxed and try not to use any tension, I get 170 Hz, if I use some tension, just enough to make my voice have a feminine resonance, I actually do get to the 200-220 range that he predicted. If I put more effort into changing resonance, I end up even higher, but I think the 270 Hz range is not suiting me - I do not feel it strains me a lot - but it probably does strain my voice a bit more - maybe like using my trained voice pre-OP...

I can totally relate to what you're saying.  However, I've not really tried to do it and raise the voice a bit more at the same time.

Below is a reading when I put some effort into enunciating, etc.  Only results in a 10-15 Hz increase, so not too much stress I guess.
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1YAMj6VcPjp

What also matters in terms of pitch readings (average pitch, for example in PRAAT) is modulation/enunciation. So if you speak in a monotonous voice, the pitch will always be much lower than if you use your pitch range and modulate the voice by going up and down in pitch - because usually your monotonous pitch will be in the lower third of that range.
I demonstrated this, I believe in one of the threads on voice analysis. The lower pitch of the voice dows not change, but because there are more higher parts , the average goes up.

Hi   It's been a bit over six months since my surgery so thought my thread needed an update.

Here is a rainbow passage reading - I think it's slightly higher than normal since it's the end of the day.  If you would like some other recording, let me know, although I'll not leave the links up for too long.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0bCj2bVYurW

Generally my voice is strong enough and loud enough now that I don't have any issues.  As the healing apparently takes a year, I'm quite looking forward to how the next six months go.

Quote from: Denjin on October 17, 2016, 01:31:19 PM
Hi   It's been a bit over six months since my surgery so thought my thread needed an update.

Here is a rainbow passage reading - I think it's slightly higher than normal since it's the end of the day.  If you would like some other recording, let me know, although I'll not leave the links up for too long.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0bCj2bVYurW

Generally my voice is strong enough and loud enough now that I don't have any issues.  As the healing apparently takes a year, I'm quite looking forward to how the next six months go.

Hello Denjin!

I was totally unaware of this thread. What a treasure trove! Thank you for sharing this data.

You sound great and from what I understand the voice keeps on getting better.

Did you need additional botox after the initial injections? It sounds painful.

I have not had voice surgery but am being treated for what in lay terms is "bowed" vocal cords which means I cannot belt like I once did. I got scoped by an otolaryngologist and it confirmed what Yeson picked up(!!) from the mp3 I sent him. My otolaryngologist suggested gel injections around the vocal cords. The scope was totally non-painful but was kinda weird to have a relatively narrow tube inserted through my nostril. The gel is absorbed by the body over 2 to 3 months, so it is temporary so the vocal cords get support during vocal "physical therapy." I am wondering if this is something I should do? The doctor is standing by, but my speech person thinks I can heal without the injections. She also thinks I don't need vfs. But try and tell me that!

Jennie wrote on her youtube blog that she could do an acceptably high voice prior to Yeson but as I recall, she said she got stage fright, so to speak--pun fully intended, when she spoke with others. She said the Yeson surgery prevented her from falling into the low range. She, too, had an excellent result.

Again, thank you for the trove of information!

Hi!

The botox didn't hurt, really.  At least no more than it does if you have it anywhere else... I've not had to have any more injections as Dr. Kim doesn't think I need them.  He also never had me take the clonazepam, so guess I got lucky!

Hi Denjin

Did u get any withdrawal symptoms following cessation of Clonazepam?

Thanks

Quote from: Ritana on October 25, 2016, 03:53:58 PM
Hi Denjin

Did u get any withdrawal symptoms following cessation of Clonazepam?

Thanks

Hi. He told me not to take it after every set of recordings I sent post surgery, including my six month one. Luckily...

I took the clonazepam for the full 3 months - and then after a break I had to get a refill for another 2 months. Each time I had to get off it, it was unpleasant. I took it slowly down over some weeks and still I had some increased anxiety, nervousness, dizzyness, weakness.

I believe I probably should take another round now as my voice now is rough again because I seem to abuse it too much with whatever I do while speaking - old habits again. But I will not do this again - better not send a recording to Dr Kim regarding this. I may get another round of voice therapy for it maybe - the pills are just there to make it temporarily easier - in the end the brain will have to learn how to use the muscles properly .

I am cutting down on clonazopam very slowly but I',m still experiencing severe anxiety, tiredness and dizziness. I doubt I will ever take it again in the future.

I don't understand why he has some people take it.  Did either of you have specific complaints after surgery that you let him know about?  Or, did he say to take the pills after hearing your recordings?

I still use my voice wrong (really need to find a voice therapist I can actually visit where I live) I think and I can feel some stress in my throat.  Still, I'd not want to take pills to sort it out...

I sent recordings about monthly and he kept telling me I should continue. When they ran out he said I should start again because the tremor was still there. I think it probably still is there. I did a talk this week - 90 minutes - and my voice had vocal fry that I could not get rid of, afterwards my voice was strained a lot for a day. I did this last year at about the same time and I did not have those issues so much. I still could blame it on the fact that it was just 9 months post op. Now I think it is mainly that I do not use my voice properly, something that worked during therapy but I have a hard time to transfer it to daily life or to such events wher eI have to speak very loudly.

I see.  Yeah, sounds like the situation is different.  I have some weird stressed-out feeling, but it is not all the time.  However, I do still have a tremor although I can't ell if it is any worse than before surgery.  No vocal fry or anything... 

This was their response to my last mail (which had the recording a few posts above):

Quote
You don't seem to need further medications but focus more on the resonance training.

Not sure why it says 'further' as I never took any at all... but I get the resonance comment every time.

I hope you get better!

It was the end of the work day and my voice felt a bit tired.  So, I was asking a girl if my voice was too quiet and she said it was fine and she had no problems hearing me.  She said my voice was 'husky', though.  I think that's a resonance thing?  I mean, I passed fine before and after my voice surgery.  However, I think I still haven't sorted out my resonance since I had the surgery. The old way just makes my voice higher or something.

Husky means you probably loose too much air when speaking. You may have a glottal gap that is not closing properly. This could come from using your old phonation patterns. The thing is - the way we used our voices before the surgey does not exactly work anymore. The trained modifications to change resonance or pitch do not work properly and can distort the new voice or make it less good, actually. Speaking in the old pitch also does not properly work.
One needs to find a new way. I think a good way is to somehow learn to relax about the voice. Talk softly, not trying to argue or to be loud - just very softly, relaxed and calm and see what happens. In my case the pitch is quite high then - around 190-200 probably - and the resonance is actually quite ok - but it breaks down if I force the voice using old patterns - I am still learning, but there are ways to make the voice louder that do not need force - basically staying relaxed but using more air which requires better breathing (abdominal breathing) - and not be afraid of using more air - more air means actually that there will be less air that is lost  its a bit of a paradox but has to do with aerodynamics. What I cannot control yet is if I am in an argument, discussion or try to be decisive or basically explaining someone what I need or what s/he has to do, then my voice is forced and gets lower and not as good resonance...

Anjaq,

You had your surgery over a yeae and a half- if I remember well, and you still need to tale medication to control your voice breaking issues??? Vfs is never to be talen lightheartedly!

I went to see a new voice theeapist yesterday because i'm told I sound older on the phone. I'm 29actually. The vouce therapist was surprised when she saw me. She said she thought i was a lady in my mid fourties (arghhhh)


Anyway, she said my voice timber is definitely a female one, and that I definitely sound female but my voice is a little raspy and broken....

Anyway, i'm about to.start a round of sessions with her. I feel. A little hopeless actually. 10 months after surgeey and i still cant speak with a clear voice.

No, I do not take any medication anymore. I took it during months 4-7 and 9-11 post OP. I did about 30 sessions of voice rehab in that time as well. My voice can be good now, I just have to break some old habits in some situations - I do have a bit more phlegm when it comes to the cold season - I always had that, but now it seems to somewhat affect my voice a bit more so I clear my throat more often before I speak. But its not a big change. I always have a runny nose and phlegm when it is below 10°C. When I am relaxed and do what we did in the rehab sessions, my voice is good - I never got misgendered because of it (an not mis-aged either).

You mentioned that your vouce started to break again, and that this is why you're considering going back on Clonazepam. That's why i said you're having to be on medication even after a year and a half post vfs.

In my case, I had two surgeries in one. The first was to trear vocal cords scarring. The second one was vfs. This is why my voice is still breaking. When voice breaks-it usually results in an.older voice.. Dr Remacle said, when i visited him about four months ago, that inflammation will usually subside a year post surgery. Fingers crossed!

To be honest, I'd rather have an.older woman's voice then have a high piched male male voice. That is why i don't regret vfs.