Quote from: Sarah on January 20, 2008, 04:32:16 PM
I am having trouble recovering from this..
Are you saying that the official policy of the Medical System in the UK is that Transexualism and ->-bleeped-<- is a delusion?

That's what the U.K psychiatrists at Charing Cross GIC say. They are both against us and are unwilling to help us. I can provide you with a truckload of evidence if needed. They have stated in several letters to my GP that Transexualism is a delusion?

According to Psychiatrist Donald Montgomery I am under the illusion of being female. Funny that as everyone thinks I'm female...

I no longer attend Charing Cross GIC...but I'm still working on a case with several others who also attended their clinic to challenge them in court.

No, no, that's ok.
I'll take your word for it.
It's just sort of astounding that such biggotry exists within the official system.
That's terrible.
Why do people go to this Charing Cross?
I keep hearing about it, but if they are full of $#!t then why do people go there?
Why not just get a private doctor and do it yourself.
Probably far cheaper in the long run ya?

I mean is this center some sort of requirement to go to for getting help in the UK?

That would suck, I mean I would just pay somebody.

Sara

Quote from: Sarah on January 21, 2008, 03:27:13 PM
No, no, that's ok.
I'll take your word for it.
It's just sort of astounding that such biggotry exists within the official system.
That's terrible.
Why do people go to this Charing Cross?
I keep hearing about it, but if they are full of $#!t then why do people go there?
Why not just get a private doctor and do it yourself.
Probably far cheaper in the long run ya?

I mean is this center some sort of requirement to go to for getting help in the UK?

That would suck, I mean I would just pay somebody.

Sara

Not everyone has the financial means to pay privately. I don't for one. But I'd go find doctors willing to bend the rules, I won't let myself be imprisoned by defunct bureaucracy.

Transexualism and ->-bleeped-<- is a delusion?

For some it is.  There is a running post about post GRS regrets with person who more than likely should not have got it.  As Rachael says so perfectly, not all people who think they are sex X are.

Moreover there are a lot of things mixed in with this, the number of attempted suicides on this board alone are staggering.  Some of them may arise out of GID, but others might have other factors, that would come into play.

But he is the real deal I think.  Health care under the British system is rationed.  They only have X amount of money per year.  So there is a tendency to try to avoid putting people in a deal where they run up bills.  And somewhere some person is trying to decide if X amount should be put into GID or better pre-natal care.  I do not envy that choice.

Quote from: tekla on January 22, 2008, 02:20:27 PM
Transexualism and ->-bleeped-<- is a delusion?

For some it is.  There is a running post about post GRS regrets with person who more than likely should not have got it.  As Rachael says so perfectly, not all people who think they are sex X are.

Moreover there are a lot of things mixed in with this, the number of attempted suicides on this board alone are staggering.  Some of them may arise out of GID, but others might have other factors, that would come into play.

But he is the real deal I think.  Health care under the British system is rationed.  They only have X amount of money per year.  So there is a tendency to try to avoid putting people in a deal where they run up bills.  And somewhere some person is trying to decide if X amount should be put into GID or better pre-natal care.  I do not envy that choice.

As far as I'm concerned he is not the real deal. I'm under no delusion nor are the doctors at University College Hospital who undertook my genetic intersexed testing. I can prove it's a medical condition in my case and have the documentation. Obviously it's not always the case and not everyone is intersexed but it still doesn't give them the right to make unfounded generalisations of individuals they have only ever seen once for a 20 minute appointment.

Posted on: January 22, 2008, 05:03:58 PM

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Quote from: Schala on January 22, 2008, 01:52:42 PM
Not everyone has the financial means to pay privately. I don't for one. But I'd go find doctors willing to bend the rules, I won't let myself be imprisoned by defunct bureaucracy.

That's true but it's a catch 22 as their are no known qualified private gender psychiatrists either in the U.K.

Quote from: Berliegh on January 22, 2008, 05:03:58 PM

Quote from: tekla on January 22, 2008, 02:20:27 PM
Transexualism and ->-bleeped-<- is a delusion?

For some it is.  There is a running post about post GRS regrets with person who more than likely should not have got it.  As Rachael says so perfectly, not all people who think they are sex X are.

Moreover there are a lot of things mixed in with this, the number of attempted suicides on this board alone are staggering.  Some of them may arise out of GID, but others might have other factors, that would come into play.

But he is the real deal I think.  Health care under the British system is rationed.  They only have X amount of money per year.  So there is a tendency to try to avoid putting people in a deal where they run up bills.  And somewhere some person is trying to decide if X amount should be put into GID or better pre-natal care.  I do not envy that choice.

As far as I'm concerned he is not the real deal. I'm under no delusion nor are the doctors at University College Hospital who undertook my genetic intersexed testing. I can prove it's a medical condition in my case and have the documentation. Obviously it's not always the case and not everyone is intersexed but it still doesn't give them the right to make unfounded generalisations of individuals they have only ever seen once for a 20 minute appointment.

Even someone with an 'obvious' intersex condition (easily detectable, not necessarily visually apparent) can get doctors deny truth or treatment. Call them delusional and what not...

I know a few who do have factors that aren't ambiguous (who obviously point to something intersex) and shrinks, docs and endos keep denying those factors exist.

I think it's more than a lack of desire to pay for those things. I think people get squeamish about the existance of something outside the neat little 'opposite sex' theory (that determines intersex to not exist).

People are affected by what we are taught to believe in. We tend to discount our eyes and our science before we discount firmly held ideas. The docs that Schala are referencing are good examples, regardless the scientific nature of their work.

People see what we expect to see most of the time; what we have reference to in our pasts.

The Caribs who greeted Columbus and the Indians on the Veracruz coast who first saw Cortez ships saw 'nothing.' They said so. It took some days of the ships actually being their until they were 'seen.'

For those who 'believe' either that IS or TS don't exist or cannot exist or that IS is always 'taken care of' at birth possibly are viewing something so very foreign to their concepts that they really are unable to comprehend what they are seeing.

Nichole

Quote from: Nichole W. on January 22, 2008, 05:36:28 PM
People are affected by what we are taught to believe in. We tend to discount our eyes and our science before we discount firmly held ideas. The docs that Schala are referencing are good examples, regardless the scientific nature of their work.

People see what we expect to see most of the time; what we have reference to in our pasts.

The Caribs who greeted Columbus and the Indians on the Veracruz coast who first saw Cortez ships saw 'nothing.' They said so. It took some days of the ships actually being their until they were 'seen.'

For those who 'believe' either that IS or TS don't exist or cannot exist or that IS is always 'taken care of' at birth possibly are viewing something so very foreign to their concepts that they really are unable to comprehend what they are seeing.

Nichole

No, these psychiatrists are making wild assuptions that we are all delusional....regardless of how convincingly passable we look or don't look in a 20 minute appointment.

Quote from: Berliegh on January 22, 2008, 06:01:33 PM
No, these psychiatrists are making wild assuptions that we are all delusional....regardless of how convincingly passable we look or don't look in a 20 minute appointment.

Of course, then we are all subject to seeing and interpreting behavior as we wish.

I am not trying to suggest that those doctors are competent and just being misunderstood, Berleigh. What i am suggesting is that what they belive overrides what their eyes actually see. Their brains interpret that in a way that allows them to say that you are delusional. They very literally, in John Lennon's words, "are looking through you."

N~

It takes me 20 minutes (granted I'm not a speed queen) to tune a guitar for a concert.  Somehow it seems that it would take more than that to make a good decision about this.

Hi all
I go along with what Berliegh said about a twenty minute appointment. I didn't have a qualified therapist out in the toolies where I was living, I was lucky to have a psychiatrist whom I went to see once a month for my bipolar disorder. He sent me to the right places to see the right folks, one was the Clarke Institute for an evaluation. The second was to see and endocrinologist, both in Toronto around 240 miles return trip. Got the endo to  establish my qualifications for a prescription for hormones which she sent to my physician in my home town. I did most of all the rest of this stuff on my own. My shrink who didn't know much more then I knew about Transexuality at least knew the right places I needed to go.

Now if you are intersexed Berlleigh hon, I can't see how in Sam Hell your docs could miss such a thing as IS. I am only a sensitive and I can feel stuff in people and probably be able to pick up on energy impulses such as that being emitted from something like that like extra organs in a person.. I can tell when a woman is pregnant just by putting my hand lightly on their abdomen. But you would think that these Dr's where you are must have sufficient modern medical implements at their disposal to detect something like part of a uterus and ovaries.

Cindy 

Quote from: cindybc on January 23, 2008, 01:55:54 AM
Hi all
I go along with what Berliegh said about a twenty minute appointment. I didn't have a qualified therapist out in the toolies where I was living, I was lucky to have a psychiatrist whom I went to see once a month for my bipolar disorder. He sent me to the right places to see the right folks, one was the Clarke Institute for an evaluation. The second was to see and endocrinologist, both in Toronto around 240 miles return trip. Got the endo to  establish my qualifications for a prescription for hormones which she sent to my physician in my home town. I did most of all the rest of this stuff on my own. My shrink who didn't know much more then I knew about Transexuality at least knew the right places I needed to go.

Now if you are intersexed Berlleigh hon, I can't see how in Sam Hell your docs could miss such a thing as IS. I am only a sensitive and I can feel stuff in people and probably be able to pick up on energy impulses such as that being emitted from something like that like extra organs in a person.. I can tell when a woman is pregnant just by putting my hand lightly on their abdomen. But you would think that these Dr's where you are must have sufficient modern medical implements at their disposal to detect something like part of a uterus and ovaries.

Cindy 

Not everyone who is intersexed has internal female organs as well. Some can just have female chromosones and a female bone density.

The psychiatrists at Charing Cross GIC have no links with medical experts or links with people providing testing for intersexed conditions. This I had done independently somewhere else, so there is no connection with the two sources.

Charing Cross GIC have no idea I am intersexed and wouldn't ever bother to be interested or want to find out. The way Charing Cross GIC is run is very different and they don't have facilities for treatment or support. It is only based on psychiatry and psychiatric anylisis and is not related to the various treatments you would assiciate with gender dysphoria.

Who are these people?
Is this like the place of official refferal if you go to the NHS for treatment for such a thing?

Like "I am TS or IS, and I would like treatment" , "Ok, go to Charing Cross"?

I mean, it doesn't make any sense to me that people go there if they suck, unless it is part of the official state sponsored program in the UK or somhow part of the  loop.


Also, why don't you go to France for diagnosis?

I mean, the tube runs accross the channel, why not just take some money saved for a few months and spend a weekend in France?
If you need to pay sombody over there then do it. French people are nice.

I mean, you all UK'eres talk about affordability like you have no income. Anybody wtioh any amount of income can at least save a couple of hundred bucks (or the UK equivalant in pounds or euros) in the amount of time that they are asking you to wait.

It seems like if the only options there are go through the NHS or go Private, I would go private. Even if you have to go outside for a diagnosis and save money for a while.

I mean, its just HRT.

For surgery, what with the costs involved, it might be  worth the wait. But while you are waiting, you might as well be on HRT.

The surgery wait is actually the same for us, if not longer consdereing that most people don't have 60,000 dollars lying arround.

So I mean that's what I would do.
I would save a bit of cash, plan some Holiday time, and go to France.
(or wherever) and get the diagnosis, and the prescriptions, bring it back, and start HRT.
Then, I would go through the process needed for applying for surgery.

This is all of course assuming I live'ed there.

Now I have heard that there is at least one private therapist in the UK who is Trans, themself.
Even if they charge like 200 dollars an hour, it is still more efficiant in the  long run than using the NHS.
I mean think about it. What do you do for a living? how much is your time worth?
Do you want to wait that long?
For the price of a nice weekend in Champagne or Venice or Naples(maybe cheaper considering train ticket prices, etc.) you could have a diagnosis and treatment referal for HRT.
Sure it's expensive, but it's cheaper than waiting.
Certainly at the rate I charge per hour.
I mean it sounds like by the time the NHS is done with you, you could have alredy been there and back several times if needed.
Or seen a thereapist in house in the UK privately, even if they charge a lot.

My two cents,

Sara

Hi Berliegh
That really burns me up that the Physician who diagnosed you as being IS and Charing Cross diagnosed you as delusional? It don't make sense at all. I believe you have moved to Scotland to get the opinion of another Shrink, I hope that shrink can recognise the fact that you are IS. You may get better results on that one. If not maybe Frans might not be that bad of an Idea and you are still welcome to come to BC if you so desire.

Good luck and may God bless.

Cindy

Quote from: Sarah on January 23, 2008, 12:20:42 PM
Who are these people?
Is this like the place of official refferal if you go to the NHS for treatment for such a thing?

Like "I am TS or IS, and I would like treatment" , "Ok, go to Charing Cross"?

I mean, it doesn't make any sense to me that people go there if they suck, unless it is part of the official state sponsored program in the UK or somhow part of the  loop.


For surgery, what with the costs involved, it might be  worth the wait. But while you are waiting, you might as well be on HRT.

The surgery wait is actually the same for us, if not longer consdereing that most people don't have 60,000 dollars lying arround.

Now I have heard that there is at least one private therapist in the UK who is Trans, themself.
Even if they charge like 200 dollars an hour, it is still more efficiant in the  long run than using the NHS.
I mean think about it. What do you do for a living? how much is your time worth?
Do you want to wait that long?
Or seen a thereapist in house in the UK privately, even if they charge a lot.

My two cents,

Sara

Ok Sarah.....In the U.K there are various points of referral in the U.K depending on where you live. Because I live in London I get the short straw of the postcode lottery and my PCT (Health Authority) sent me to Charing Cross in 2001. Not my choice at all but this where you get sent to if you live in London. Charing Cross GIC are really employed by the NHS to either stall or get rid of potential transsxuals. They are not employed to treat people but employed to stall them for a long as humanly possible.

Other NHS gender clinics around the U.K are more favourable and less damaging but if you live in a certain area you will not be able to go to another clinic outside of your PCT (Health Authority) area. I have now tried to go to a clinic in Scotland as they may be able to grant me a surgery referral which was declined along with HRT by Charing Cross GIC in 2003. But they say I must be a Scotish resident in order to access treatment in Scotland.

I saw a private consultant in 2003 to start on HRT which I was refused by Charing Cross. The NHS put the private consultant out of business because he was helping people with Gender Dysphoria. He has since been aquitted and the NHS (namely Charing Cross) lost their case.

There are no U.K qualified therapists in house who are able to provide SRS referrals and Dr Richard Curtis who you mention in your post (who is also trans) Dr Curtis is a qualified GP but is not a qualified psychiatrist, so I am not able to use him to access a referral. He charges $400 an hour by the way!

The only answer for U.K residents is to go overseas or search for a private consultant. The economical climate isn't good in our country and it's true many people are on poor wages trying to balance their lives against high income tax, high gas and fuel bills, expensive mortgages, expensive food costs which are not covered by the present low wage system.

I agree people shouldn't bitch so much about the lack of support and treatment within the NHS but at the same time we pay out high taxes and National Insurance directly towards the NHS. The only way (as I found out the hard way after 10 years of fighting with the NHS) is to get out of the system altogether and try and find the money to go elsewhere...

Well that sucks.
I'm sorry that you and others have had to go through that.
So they created a Gender Identity Center just to discourage Transexuals?

That sucks.
What a ripoff.

I am so sorry you guys have to go through that.

I would totally move to Scotland, except you probably can't due to job reasons huh?

Wow.
So at least you have a private therapist did I get you right?
That's good, at least you have that.
I don't know why there wouldn't be more private gender therapists in the UK, it seems like there is a huge market for it.

So they gave that one guy a hard time for his practice?
Like is it illeagal to have a private practice in the UK?
Or did they just not like his circumventing the system for people to give them referrals?

I guess so huh? I mean if they put in place a phoney gender center just to keep out transexuals, then they really must be corrupt.

Who has oversight over all this? There must be a party responsible that you could sue, or otherwise deal with legaly.

Sara

Quote from: Sarah on January 23, 2008, 09:42:23 PM
Well that sucks.
I'm sorry that you and others have had to go through that.
So they created a Gender Identity Center just to discourage Transexuals?

So they gave that one guy a hard time for his practice?
Like is it illeagal to have a private practice in the UK?
Or did they just not like his circumventing the system for people to give them referrals?

I guess so huh? I mean if they put in place a phoney gender center just to keep out transexuals, then they really must be corrupt.


Sara

That is exactely what they are doing. You have nailed it......
Charing Cross GIC are corrupt and they put private consultant Dr Russell Reid out of business because he was helping transsexuals. They accused him in court of not complying with the HBSOC but in fact it's Charing Cross do not comply with the HBSOC. I, like many others supported him in his court case. The many transexuals who gave support for Russell was awesome. Charing Cross don't like private practitioners on their patch and it won't be long before they start on Richard Curtis as well.

http://russellreid.blogspot.com/

Charing Cross make too much money out of other PCT's (health authorities) and private comnsultants take patients away from them, so they can't make the money from those potential PCT's. A lot of it is to do with Charing Cross making money out of other PCT's out of the London area.

Charing Cross GIC is exactely how you put it Sarah, a phoney gender centre. It's set up by the NHS who never inspect or follow up progress reports on patients just as long as the transsexuals are out of the system. They have no treatment program or technicians, just 4 psychiatrists in a school room empolyed to bully, be little and intimidate transsexuals as much as possible.

I've moved on these days but it's still unfinished business and it's left a nasty taste in my mouth and the fact that I wasted 7 years of my life attending that clinic.

See "Something Rotten in the State of the Profession": http://www.pfc.org.uk/files/essays-transhealth.pdf