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advice on hair removal

Started by AnamethatstartswithE, November 11, 2016, 07:46:15 AM

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AnamethatstartswithE

So I had a consult at a hair removal place yesterday, I chickened out and said that I was only interested in chest and back hair removal. My plan is that I would do one session for back and chest (this would be the first permanent step I would make towards transition, which is scaring the bejeezus out of me). If I don't freak out I'd ask to add beard. My body hair bothers me way more than my facial hair, and I can afford both. I haven't been able to find good information about how much body hair reduces with hormones, and I don't want hairy boobs. I also don't want to spend too much if I don't have to. I think I might be letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. I'm in a weird state where I feel frustrated that I haven't already transitioned, but trying to actually take any steps causes crippling fear. Any advice, does my plans sound sound?
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Dena

Body hair can be reduced with HRT. I had very little to start with but I have seen a reduction under my arms and with my pubic hair. Facial hair is the most difficult to deal with once you go full time so it doesn't hurt to get a head start on it. You can be full time and keep the body hair covered while you work on it. Body hair should also be easer to remove after you are on HRT where as facial hair will be more difficult than body hair.

In the end, it's your call but the transition burns so much money that I would go for preserving money and keeping my options open. A compromise might be to work on the neck line first and then move up or down depending on how you feel in the future.
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zirconia

From past discussions with several electrologists and one vice president of a beauty clinic chain, male facial removal and/or contouring is a common request, and getting ever more commonplace. If you're afraid of how the clinic may react, I don't think you'll risk much by asking. I doubt you'll be refused treatment.

If you have the funds I'd also suggest starting with the face—at least if you want to be perceived as female by people you meet—and working on the body as time permits. The face will almost invariably take more time to clear than the body, and is usually visible...
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LizK

Quote from: AnamethatstartswithE on November 11, 2016, 07:46:15 AM
So I had a consult at a hair removal place yesterday, I chickened out and said that I was only interested in chest and back hair removal. My plan is that I would do one session for back and chest (this would be the first permanent step I would make towards transition, which is scaring the bejeezus out of me). If I don't freak out I'd ask to add beard. My body hair bothers me way more than my facial hair, and I can afford both. I haven't been able to find good information about how much body hair reduces with hormones, and I don't want hairy boobs. I also don't want to spend too much if I don't have to. I think I might be letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. I'm in a weird state where I feel frustrated that I haven't already transitioned, but trying to actually take any steps causes crippling fear. Any advice, does my plans sound sound?

Take a big deep breath...what is the worst that can happen?

They laugh? They ridicule? or is it more likely they nod politely and rub their hands together knowing if they do this right you are about to spend thousands of dollars with them!!!! Yahoo money, money, money!

I didn't know that many men have partial or full beard removal but they do and it is far more common than I realised either. If you have dark facial hair have a go at laser. As far as "bang for bucks" go you won't go too wrong. If you get a good result then you will be very surprised at how quickly laser clears as long as you are using the right type of laser. I am on the finishing side with laser (Elux 810 Laser) now and don't have many treatments left before it becomes a matter of chasing down the stragglers.

I had laser for my chest/stomach Pre HRT and it seems to have worked pretty well...the hair has basically gone. I have light covered hair/turning to fuzz left on my chest...not much but a few on my breasts...these are becoming less and less and I don't have any black hairs at all. 5 sessions of laser got them although I never had much to start with.

Within 24 hrs of my First laser session I could see a difference in my face and as the hairs began to shed it looked better and better, after 14 days I was astounded. By my second or third treatment I could tell which hairs had been zapped and which hadn't in most cases.

Save yourself some real grief and learn about the hair cycle and how it works...this is critical, otherwise you will feel like you are making no progress at all.

You do have a finite number of hair follicles on your face and you can remove them with varying methods. Finally, patience...you must have plenty of patience  ;)

Liz
Transition Begun 25 September 2015
HRT since 17 May 2016,
Fulltime from 8 March 2017,
GCS 4 December 2018
Voice Surgery 01 February 2019
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Mariah

I agree with the others that start with your face. You may find much of the rest will go away in time while on hormones. Hugs
Mariah
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask me.
[email]mariahsusans.orgstaff@yahoo.com[/email]
I am also spouse of a transgender person.
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Sophia Sage

Face and voice, face and voice.
What you look forward to has already come, but you do not recognize it.
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Ashley3

This is long, my "recommendation" (you need to make your own unique choices) is at the end of this post, and is really just a list of my general trajectory with hair removal. With that said, the following background is based on what I sense if your trepidation...

I can really appreciate the stymying effects of "crippling fear" in the journey. Your thoughts remind me of what my situation was like...

More than a decade ago, I really wanted to experience hair removal because I knew I wanted it, but it was at odds with how I knew I needed to look not to be put into a "bad" bucket defined by our society, friends, influences. I finally got to the point of shaving my arms and legs because I just had to try it... but that had me petrified anyone would see during the following work week, so I wore long sleeve business shirts and all that. Pretty much, I don't think anyone knew. But that was only a few times... I was too afraid to have it become part of my regular regime because it would certainly be exposed at some point, like going to the beach or something.

After more than a decade of that sort of thing now and then with purging and closeted this/that, and lots of pointless painful diploratories, I started to revisit hair removal again a few years ago. This time I navigated to a local care provider's laser hair removal several times over about a year. I was again petrified, this time about calling them to even ask questions. :) That is what we call repression.

I finally did call, feeling a little frightened and embarrassed but I just had to go, and the person answering the call, who ended up doing all of my laser sessions, was so welcoming and informative. If memory serves me correctly, she was my first supportive trans care provider. The night before that first session I had the typical fear which gets me to second-guess what I'm doing and all that. I had gotten within inches of a rhinoplasty in the 90s but couldn't unwrap from a lot of conflicting input connected with meeting expectations of others.

I could see those "night before" feelings were the same thing... those negative thoughts weren't going to "work" this time. But what were they? What were those feelings? (more on this below)

I went to that first appointment, that care provider so so wonderful. A beautiful person who I will always remember and cherish as a much needed enabler of sorts (we usually use that word "enabler" in a bad way, but I have learned I really need enablement... and I accept such with full responsibility... that is key... each of us has to accept full responsibility for our decisions, but that doesn't mean enablement is a bad thing either).

So there I am sitting on the laser table and wondering "is this right?" etc. ... but it's important to say that was a logical thought whose power (expectations of others) was diminishing for various good reasons... so I was just left with this uncertain but positive feeling which was ultimately certain. (again, more on this below)

The first laser zap occurred and at that exact moment I knew THIS WAS EXACTLY THE THING I SHOULD HAVE DONE YEARS AGO! :) There was no going back. I was finally being an autonomous person not at the mercy of the expectations of others... and I knew it was right, and I was so utterly happy. It was a huge relief, something was being fixed/righted, and it was something of a religious experience. It was the beginning of removing the shackles which prevented me from seeing I could be more feminine. It was against so many expectations of society, yet it was correct. Society's norms are not always right, perhaps oft incorrect.

So I kept saying "more on this" above... here's what I've learned so far about transitional decsions: I can never know that any decision will be a certain win in advance.

What I really learned: With so many life decisions, there is often not certainty that the decision will be the best thing. This may seem simple to many, so why was I learning this at that time? Well, living trying to please others and live up the expectations of others for many decades, I got into the habit of avoiding taking risks with big life decisions by not making them myself, but by seeking input in a way where I was ultimately not making the choice.

Now here's the tricky part: I talked about enablement above... I think that can actually be good, if not necessary, but there's a difference between having positive support for a decision I make, and my seeking an answer I don't wish to make on my own when I really should. It's subtle but for me one of the big wins of transition is finally becoming a person who can make the call on what I think is right for my own life. I say to many, I've spent much of my life on life's couch. It's sad but that's my deck of cards and so I'm now picking up the pieces and it all began with my making decisions that were removed from getting growth-stunting answers from society's numbing hollow expectations rather than my own self.

It's a great skill, and one people should seek to achieve, to be able to hear the input of others, but to really be able to get in touch with one's own decision and move on that, perhaps using the input.

In my case, I was largely behaving by fitting into boxes defined by others, disregarding my soul's calls, and only doing things that got a stamp of approval. This is such a poisonous stance. I am extremely fortunate to have found the antidote: Not rejecting the input and influences of others, but maturely considering them and then truly making my own decision, even if I'm uncertain about that choice's outcome. This latter clause so so important...

The other big lesson: Because of the aforementioned dysfunction, I was not accustomed to the process of making a decision and being uncertain. People who want to move forward with any life exploration, from transition, to simply buying a new car or house or whatever... people who want to move forward with decisions like that often have the understanding that it's okay to make a choice and not be 100% certain. That is because of one simple fact: There is often no certainty with many life decisions, especially big life decisions, and avoiding uncertainty by having others implicitly make decisions for oneself is effectively a decision, and it is actually not one without uncertainty... I'd even say more uncertainty one will be unhappy while certainty that same one will make others happy by living life as a hollow caricature or " checked box" to please the expectations of others.

Okay, so that was long-winded, and perhaps I wrote it more so because I needed to express and share that. So let me thank you for your post which prompted that! :)

Here's what I'll say: I was frightened and went for full body laser removal and it was great, but it was after many painful years of avoiding it. I tried shaving beforehand and knew from that experience that it was right but I wanted it to be permanent like a woman would experience, not some guy stubble... that was too fake for me. I wanted to use no makeup or light foundation like so many women, not cakey makeup to cover stubble, stubble which I never ever successfully grew out, I never liked. So finally getting laser fixed a lot of things for me. That step was a huge huge win for me.

From that, everything rolled forward. I went to gender therapy, came out more and more. Got my rhino a year later... the rhino I'd put off decades earlier because I was infected with the expectations and impressions of others and was totally not listening to what I wanted.  I actually initially went to electrolysis to remove hair that laser was missing but after a few electrolysis appointments, it fell right into beard/facial hair removal via electrolysis which, by the way, despite having done full body with laser, the step of facial hair removal with electrolysis had all of the same anxieties as before laser's first zap... perhaps slightly less anxiety but still there. All to say, despite having done chest/legs etc., staring facial hair was, for all intents and purposes, yet another big step as if I'd not done the other stuff... on the electrolysis table, after the first electrolysis zaps on my face, I knew it was right.

I have not looked back!

Key: I accepted all decisions were my own and was willing to live with any mistakes. That's required to make big life decisions. I may "buy the house" and realize it's not right for me afterwards. Welcome to the world. What I realize is my sense of things and wisdom is better than it appears. Sitting on life's couch to avoid all corner cases is a painful sad life. As well, the negativity based on the expectations of others was mostly disconnected with my sense of what was right for me. I was being driven, not in my own driver's seat.  But the key point here: All of my decisions are using my best wisdom and I own them lock stock and barrel... the joy is that I'm making great choices and becoming happy... I'm taking risks in a responsible way and reaping the benefits.

My recommended order is only to myself based on my own experience, so I share it not as a prescription, but as hopefully something which might offer you something to think about. In order of occurrence...


  • Shaving at home, home depilatories, perhaps epilation. I did not like any of these but they were also good first learning steps. I wasted a lot of money on depilatories. A waste, but I learned something I guess. I also did get to experience hair removal with epilation but it was short lived... I didn't want masculine maintenance and appearance.
  • Laser of legs and/or chest. This is relatively safe as it's least visible. If you feel regret afterwards, you can still function in the male world since many men get such hair removal (I say this because it's not unreasonable for primary concerns to be what others think... so I say this in relation to that dilemma... if one is unsure boy mode is gone forever). I actually went for legs/chest/face laser at once, but laser was ineffective on my facial hair so it was sort of like facial hair removal never happened with laser, just legs/chest. Also, laser most always requires multiple sessions, so one can always try a session to see how one feels afterwards. Given the first session may not zap everything, one can always back off if desired. It's important to remember that—even if unlikely—laser doesn't guarantee a first session will not remove all affected hair, so be prepared for that rare occurrence on a single session. I'm just saying the likelihood that such will not happen can be part of evaluating risks and points where one and try and stop or continue.
  • Electrolysis for touchup of the former laser.
  • Electrolysis for full face.
  • Live joyously after having righted things. :)

Best of luck... hope the above wasn't too verbose. Thank you!
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AnamethatstartswithE

Thank you all,

I think bring it up when I call to make the appointment. I think one of my problems with this is that for two decades my brain spent an inordinate amount of time trying to make sure I never gave any sort of sign that I wanted to be female. It is still difficult to even come close to talking about secrets that I have spent the majority of my life convinced I would take to the grave. I actually did 2 triathlons so I would have an excuse to shave my legs/body. Since I let the T-nie out of the bottle a little over a year ago I have kept most of my body shaved, and if anyone ever noticed they never said anything. One of the positives of being trans is fully realizing that people really don't pay attention to you or care that much about what you do, it's really quite liberating.

I think part of my trepidation came from something that I wonder if other people get. every 3-5weeks I get like a day and a half where there is no dysphoria whatsoever, and the consult was during that period. I really have to believe that it's hormone related. It's back and I really do want to get rid of some of this hair. (did I mention I hate having body hair) part of what's convinced me to move towards transitioning is that even when I don't have the dysphoria I don't think "hey I kind of like being a guy," it's more "do I really have to turn my life upside-down." Anyway thanks for following this ramble.
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Ashley3

Quote from: AnamethatstartswithE on November 11, 2016, 06:39:48 PM
... I wonder if other people get. every 3-5weeks I get like a day and a half where there is no dysphoria whatsoever, and the consult was during that period. ...

My understanding is that, for many... if not all transitioners, fluctuations like that are quite normal.

It's a really great thing to discuss in gender therapy. A good caring gender therapist will have usually seen/heard it all so you can really get a good sense from such a therapist as to such normalcy.

There are beliefs by many that so-called gender dysphoria is really expression dysphoria born form depriving oneself of expression of one's gender (search for "gender expression deprivation anxiety disorder"). So for some, the act of taking steps does relieve so-called dysphoria in ways that can feel odd at first, or effect one's consideration of transitional steps. HRT can do this as well...  I have personally found that HRT takes time to understand. The initial weeks/months are not only about awaiting exciting changes, but also in "getting to know" HRT and the changes, all while seeing fluctuations in levels of dysphoria. In the long run I've really come to appreciate the subtle changes internally. The lost dysphoria is no longer an oddity.

As well, mood swings outside of gender issues can affect drives as well. For example, if one is down, one might have more doubts than if one is chipper... generally speaking.

In your case, it sounds like there can be periods of time ranging in days or weeks... while I think gender therapy is the best place to discuss those, I'd be surprised if many here didn't call that out as "expected" and completely normal, while also offering direct experiences. That's basically what I've heard.
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bonniesnyder

Good Advice! Thanks for sharing with us.
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barbie

I purchased my 2nd Tria to remove the hairs in the bikini area and some remaining fine hairs in my jaw, legs and armpits. Yes. body and armpit hair removal is far easier compared with the hairs in the beard and toes. If your hair color is dark, then you may consider Tria, too. My 2nd Tria costed ca. US$500.

barbie~~
Just do it.
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Jacqueline

Quote from: bonniesnyder on November 14, 2016, 03:58:23 AM
Good Advice! Thanks for sharing with us.

Welcome to the site.

I hope that is only the beginning of the good advice you will get here.

I also want to share some links with you. They are mostly welcome information and the rules that govern the site. If you have not had a chance to look through them, please take a moment to:


Things that you should read



Once again, welcome to Susan's. Look around, ask questions and join in.

With warmth,

Joanna
1st Therapy: February 2015
First Endo visit & HRT StartJanuary 29, 2016
Jacqueline from Joanna July 18, 2017
Full Time June 1, 2018





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