Would some trans-women who want to transition or take hormones admit that it's not as much about personality (even though that may still play a part in it) as about being looked at as pretty or feminine?

I can't see myself actually seeing a gender specialist or taking hormones in the nearer future, because I want to focus on other things right now, and find other little ways I can be pretty or more feminine. And if I do happen to decide I want hormones one day, in that case I wish I didn't leave such a big social media or internet footprint. If that is me, then I wish I could've had an idea like that since I was very little.

Anyway, I first got the idea that I wanted to be more physically feminine and pretty, but later on, personality became a secondary consideration as well. I might be androgynous, leaning towards female.

I just want somebody I can more relate to.

I certainly like the idea of being feminine, I in no way want to have SRS but HRT is certainly an option for me to better deal with my dysphoria. i have been shaving my body, taking better care of my skin and dressing at home to feel more feminine, it will only get you so far IMO. i still dont feel that i am to that point where I am done transitioning. it is certainly worthwhile to go to therapy though. I have had only 3 visits so far and i am having a very positive experience with it. She is helping me find ways to deal with my anger issues ive had since puberty.

ADMIT? Like it's a dirty little secret?

It's true that I sat with being trans for 20 years of not undertaking hrt or GCS. In that time I've transitioned socially and deciding to start hrt - which I knew would be a prelude to vaginoplasty was an acknowledgement that I was ready to let go of any expectations of being objectively pretty.

Physical beauty is only skin deep and accepting that has been the key to moving forward.

Recognize that very few women natal or trans feel secure in their appearance. That insecurity is very much an effect of the sexist double standards that are so much a part of our society.

So no, for me it's not about being seen as pretty because that's not very likely in the cards and in fact I'm trading being an attractive male for becoming a female who won't pass or if you prefer, an apparently male person with breasts and a vagina doing what I can to appear as femme as possible.

So feeling comfortable in my own skin is the driver and the only thing that surgery is going to change outwardly will be removing a bulge that doesn't go very well with most feminine fashions. All the rest is the hormones and 20 years of working to be the most complete human I can. That human happens to be relatively feminine in brain and social interaction or as you would put it "personality"; I would rather call it "identity".

There are trans women who pass visually and yet are fairly easy to clock because they remain socialised as males. I have already found that most of the women I know have accepted me as one of their number. It feels like coming home.

Hah!  My youngest daughter (age 25) asked me about this.

Pretty?  Dear, I'm almost 63, crepey skin, constant bee stung face from endless electrolysis, thick-waisted, big-shouldered, etc.  My dream of beauty is to not be called "Sir", or "Hey, bud" at the grocery store.  Maybe if I go shopping in the dark...

Pretty? I know better.  Not Happening.

I have found that explaing my motivation regarding transitioning is impossible when speaking to the cis gendered. They think its either to be beautiful, wear womens clothes or sleep with men. When I tell them its none of that, they stare blankly at me. Although being pretty would be nice, I'd be delusional if that was why I was transitioning. Even if it were possible or probable.

I think everybody wants to be attractive but for me a 6-12 hour surgical procedure, a month or more of recovery and about $50,000 in cost may be a bit more than it's worth. In my case with a surgical procedure that long there may be a very real risk of death so for now, I live with what I am.

Heck, yes, I want to be pretty.  But, like Michelle, I've left it a bit late, so that is not as realistic an option as it might have been a few decades ago.  I'll have to settle for dressing well.  But, yes, that is front and centre in my motivation for transitioning. 

Still, as I explore who I really am, I am aware of body dysphoria and social dysphoria.  They were buried more deeply than being pretty and feminine, but they are there.  So I am going to the whole package.

I wouldn't say the idea of pretty necessarily became a part of my thinking until I started the transition. I really just despised being treated like a guy.

Quote from: Emileeeee on November 18, 2016, 07:28:37 AM
I really just despised being treated like a guy.

I agree (except for the tense -- despised vs. despise -- I'm not full time.)

Doesn't everyone want to be seen as attractive?

I was always considered an attractive guy, but those facial features don't translate into an attractive woman. What I don't want it to look like a guy in a dress.

So unfortunately for me, I'm not going full time until I get some FFS. I don't need a lot, but I feel I need some to look the way I want.

I'd like to look however I would have ended up if I'd not had testosterone running through my veins for decades.  Whether that's butt ugly, absolutely stunning or somewhere in between, I don't really care too much, I just want to look like me.

Every woman wants to be looked at as "pretty". I'd like to end up just being seen as feminine. Just to be seen as I am inside is enough.

Yes, I want to be pretty, feel pretty and wear pretty clothes. Maybe a big part is trying to catch up on missing out for 44 years...

How far would I go for it? Not sure. So far any "cosmetic" surgery has not been in the plans - but who knows.

I want to look conventionally beautiful. The stereotypical American media driven idea of beauty. But I am not but it is not the end of the world. If I did not get to transition when that would be the end of the world. Pre transition I was widely considered a handsome "man" and now I am mostly considered an ugly woman. For the most part my looks fit the gender stereotype of femininity.  That is good enough for me. I do not think I will ever have plastic surgery again. I get a few hairs on above my upper lip chin and jaw line which I shave. That causes itchy pimples. My boobs are small compare with the rest of me. That makes me feel unpretty but for me the surgeries and paying for those surgeries is not worth it. I am not going to get liposuction either. I feel like I needed to pass I was not trying to look like a supermodel.

I can't say that I'm that interested in looking pretty or looking young. I try to be
realistic about things. A woman at work (who doesn't know I'm trans) said to me
that I looked "just lovely" which did make me happy. There seems to be confusion
about this. When I talk about making plans for some facial surgery, people think
that I am trying to make myself beautiful and what I'm really want is just to look
more like a woman. I don't want to be seen as a guy .. to be called sir!

 When I was kid in school I used to ask myself why was I born a boy. I wanted to be like the other girls and I didn't care if I would be the ugliest girl in school.
  I was full time six months before I started hormones being seen as pretty never factored in, being treated as woman is what matters. That I passed most of the time back then I owe  to my demeanor.

Quote from: redhot1 on November 17, 2016, 10:12:21 PM
Would some trans-women who want to transition or take hormones admit that it's not as much about personality (even though that may still play a part in it) as about being looked at as pretty or feminine?
I just want somebody I can more relate to.

Since the age of seven I have wanted to be as pretty as my sister. Think Ellie May from Beverly Hillbillies. It almost has been an obsession. I found out after 64 years that I am transgender about 8 months ago. I alway knew I was different. Deciding on HRT is the best thing I have ever done for myself thus far. I am much more comfortable in my own skin like something was being withheld all these years and now it has returned. I used to wake up grouchy and ill tempered. Now I am much more cognizant of my mood swings and make adjustments. So personality wise HRT has improved that immensely. The pretty part I guess is in the eye of the beholder because when I look in the mirror I see a supermodel. well sort of. 

For me there is definitely a difference between attractive, pretty, and handsome.

In my case being "pretty" is part of the "passing" variable equation. Being pretty can certainly assist in successful social interactions as a woman. Society has mental models of the generic gender category. If you can tap into that so people don't think twice or question what they see it can contribute to them ignoring information that doesn't fit that mental model.

So if I present as "pretty" and thus fit the female mental model it's much easier to interact even if I have shortcomings such as voice, a bit of stubble (for electrolysis) non typical body language etc.

The invisible gorilla test works along the same lines
http://theinvisiblegorilla.com/gorilla_experiment.html

Desirable. Attractive. Not having rocks thrown at me. Those things sure. To me "Pretty" is winning the gene-pool lottery. I'm not allowed to even buy a ticket

Come on be honest. Don't you just want to be pretty enough that some guy is intrigued enough to pull over and help you fix your flat tire?