Well, I didn't like Donald Trump, but Hillary Clinton scared me too. I believe, in fact, that this election has made me scared of both sides. I know that the protests were to be expected after the winner was announced, but their riots became too much to bear. For the other side, on this forum I seen some very intimidating news about how bad things will happen to us. I kind of wonder if people are over-reacting to the announced victory. But for this support forum, I have your sympathy.

I just feel tangled with thoughts right now. I know my parents get angry (beyond description) when they see so many people bashing on Trump and thinking he's an idiot. It intimidates me sometimes, too. But, I'd hate to strongly disapprove of my parents and criticize them as Trump-supporting idiots. Let alone come out to them about something big and life-changing, they will only get very angry, my dad especially is very passionate about this stuff.

At this point, all we can really do is keep an eye on them, and be prepared to call attention to anything damaging that might be attempted.

In the USA that is our First Amendment right and duty, part of how our government works. We will need to communicate with our elected representatives and their appointees to make sure they hear us and understand the direction we can give them.


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I think he was the best choice of the two.  If either could do anything to reduce spending and control the debt he would have the best chance.  Also, I believe that he will be fair with equal standards for everybody.  So far he is showing his desire of trying to unite all sides.

Remember we survived 8 years of a strictly one-sided liberal agenda with no effort to obtain cooperation from anybody who had different views.  I am glad that we don't have to look forward to another 4 years of that.

There is no reason for the demonstrations and riots which have taken place. 

The first president I recall was Dwight D. Eisenhower and there have been many after that. Some we felt would destroy the country and others we had great hopes for. Often neither turned out to be what we expected and there is something that protects the country and the people. Congress is not in the business of rubber stamping anything the president wants and even as far back as Washington, presidents have been complaining about congress. A secondary limitation is the supreme court that places another check on the president. Our government was designed to prevent the emotions of the people and the government from making drastic changes in the country. Yes, there have been times when the process doesn't work as well as it should but over time it tends to correct it's self.

I may be a bit of an optimist but I am unable to see where the future could be any worst that the past I lived through. If anything, I think the future has more possibilities than the past because the people expect it from our country. I recommend that you try to relax and allow some time to pass before you judge the new government. It could be far better than you think.

Quote from: redhot1 on November 22, 2016, 06:29:53 PM
I know my parents get angry (beyond description) when they see so many people bashing on Trump and thinking he's an idiot.

I voted for Hillary, and I despise Trump, but I don't think he's an idiot.  Far from it.  He's actually a genius.  He knew exactly how to tap into the various chords of discontent in the country and use that to his advantage to get himself elected as President.  With no previous political or military experience!  Say what you want about him, but he's very, very smart in that sense.

But he's also a total narcissist.  That may sound bad, but keep in mind Trump is 70 yrs old.  He doesn't have much more time to cement his legacy.  So I believe that will help keep him in check, as he will want his name and reputation to leave a lasting legacy long after he's passed.

The last point I'd like to make is that Trump is extremely unpredictable.  His words have no weight.  Already you can see he is backtracking on many of his campaign promises since winning the election.  He flip-flops all the time.  So it's really impossible to predict what a Trump presidency will look like.  Maybe it will be good?  Maybe it will be bad?  Trump supporters, by voting for him, chose the "blow stuff up with dynamite" option when they voted for Trump.  Who knows what will happen?

I voted for trump because I know the clintons background and knew a Hillary presidency would finish our country off and the Clinton foundation stood to gain billions in donations. I'm happy they lost and the American people won.

Rather than being scared, I recommend that you get prepared instead. 

Trump isn't really a threat the the LGBT community, the tea party GOP is the problem that the LGBT community is going to be facing.  If anything, hope that Trump make it through his term, because a Pence presidency is infinitely more terrifying. 

Trump already lied: he said he would investigate Hillary, now he says he won't. Same with the climate deals.

This is Politics, right? I guess he got what he wanted: ultimate power, and winning. I don't think much will change.

It's important to remember most politicians will say what they need to in order to get elected and then what happens afterwords is often different than what they told us. Some of that difference is due to the powers that be such as the balance of power that are political system has with a system of checks and balances. The result is Trump may want to do something, but if Congress or the Supreme Court overrule or don't approve then there isn't much he can do. Hugs
Mariah

Quote from: cheryl reeves on November 23, 2016, 07:48:52 AM
I voted for trump because I know the clintons background and knew a Hillary presidency would finish our country off and the Clinton foundation stood to gain billions in donations. I'm happy they lost and the American people won.

I totally support that position.

Quote from: 2cherry on November 23, 2016, 10:26:24 AM
Trump already lied: he said he would investigate Hillary, now he says he won't. Same with the climate deals.

This is Politics, right? I guess he got what he wanted: ultimate power, and winning. I don't think much will change.

Trump said he would not actively pursue it but would not stop the ongoing investigations on related issues. Given that and some of his other re-thinking, it appears that he is really concerned about uniting the country and moving forward on the most important issues.

WE OWE HIM  THE OPPORTUNITY TO TRY.

Trump lied, Hillary lied.  Big surprise.  Both are politicians.

In other controversial and surprising news, the sun will rise in the morning!!!!!


It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves

I do not think Donald Trump is an idiot.  But I do think he has way too much in common with some of history's more nefarious dictators for me to be comfortable with him.  I don't compare him to Hitler, like some people.  No, I think he has far, far more in common with a Philippine dictator, Ferdinand Marcos. 

And I know from whence I speak.  I was in the Philippines quite a few times after Marcos was deposed (by the People Power revolution in 1986) and I saw the aftermath of his rule with my own eyes.

Marcos came to power by being elected in a democracy that was closely modeled on our own --after all, the Philippines was an American colony from 1902 to 1947.  He then abolished term limits, curtailed freedom of the press, made sure the media printed only what he wanted, and then used the threat of a shadowy communist insurgency in the Philippines, and the Vietnam War to abolish elections and declare martial law.  And he mercilessly imprisoned and persecuted his political opponents.  His regime was a nonstop orgy of cronyism, self dealing, and stealing from his own government.  And of course all the members of his family grew rich and powerful as well.  Various Marcos relatives and in laws are still in power in several parts of the Philippines.

We are already seeing the beginnings of this with the Trump regime, but on a global scale -- phone calls to the President of Argentina to restart the stalled Trump Tower project in Buenos Aires, attempts to reward a favored British politician to stop the wind farms that are spoiling the views of the Trump golf courses in Scotland, and Trump charging the government for housing secret service agents at Trump Tower and for rides on his airplane.  And he is manipulating freedom of the press by refusing to communicate with media outlets he does not agree with, and refusing to allow them to cover his activity.  And he has his children on his transition team, and has them running his businesses, and he has them sitting in on high level meetings with foreign heads of state, such as the Prime Minister of Japan.  And although those meetings are supposed to be coordinated through the State Department, he is going around the State Department and contacting foreign leaders directly.

The result of twenty years of rule by Marcos?  While the Philippine economy grew under his rule, it benefited only the wealthy.  The rich got richer and fewer in number, the poor got poorer and more numerous, and the middle class disappeared.  The Philippines went from an American style democracy to an oligarchy whose economy was controlled by the Twenty-One Families.  And kidnap for ransom became a growth industry -- to the point that when my first wife had to go back there to visit family during his regime, she had to hire bodyguards to constantly shadow her.

No, Donald Trump is no idiot.  He is very very clever.  And very very narcissistic -- just like Ferdinand Marcos was.

Hey Redhot,

You must experience some very interesting political theatre at home?  It is sooo easy to have political passions.  Voting is so cherished a right that we do it in private

The greater the level of political power the greater the distance from the average citizen.  You and I are unlikely to have much impact, beyond our vote, on the direction of Washington DC.  Rather than despair or feel powerless I suggest the old activist mantra and/or bumper sticker "Think Globally and Act Locally."  We now have the ability to be well informed about any and everything with a little research.  We can make the biggest positive difference in our own life and in our immediate community.  Be the change you want to see and do it right at home.  While we cannot dictate how others act we can chose to respond with thoughtful perceptions of our own.  We can laugh at nonsense or get inflamed like a boil to what end?

I worried when McGovern was defeated and war raged in Vietnam (1972).  I learned first hand that war destroys everything, including the truth.  The guy who won was Nixon and under his reign we got the Clean Air and Water Act and more progressive legislation.  And then he was impeached and forced from office, in humiliation, for his crimes.  Stuff like that can happen again so i suggest the big picture is almost more entertainment than real consequence.  The world still revolves around the Sun after all.

As a child of the 60's and a former Draft Card holder I knew all to well what the consequences of an election meant. Likely the same for your parents. "Life and Death" lost a lot of meaning in the ensuing 50 years. Today's protesters are carrying on like it is the end of the world as we know it.

Philosophically speaking... the result of ANY election is the end of the world as we know it. It's not my first time. Hopefully not my last time.

The last eight years have resulted in more division in our country, more violence toward law enforcement, more racial unrest, more unemployment with fewer people seeking work, fewer jobs for people who seek them, more welfare, greater debt than we have ever experienced, a lack of world dominance, less ability to defend our country, more political corruption of power, etc., etc. then we have experienced in my lifetime and longer.  The alternative would have only been a continuance of the same to a greater degree.

I now have more hope for the future.  Pray for the success of our new leader and for our country as we have always done.  Our system has built-in checks and balances which are effective if they are not abused as we have recently experienced.

Quote from: mac1 on November 24, 2016, 10:02:58 AM
The last eight years have resulted in more division in our country, more violence toward law enforcement, more racial unrest, more unemployment with fewer people seeking work, fewer jobs for people who seek them, more welfare, greater debt than we have ever experienced, a lack of world dominance, less ability to defend our country, more political corruption of power, etc., etc. then we have experienced in my lifetime and longer.  The alternative would have only been a continuance of the same to a greater degree.

I now have more hope for the future.  Pray for the success of our new leader and for our country as we have always done.  Our system has built-in checks and balances which are effective if they are not abused as we have recently experienced.

So are we seeing less divisiveness lately?  Do we recall what the unemployment rate and stock market were doing when  President Obama took office?  Have we actually checked on who created more debt?  Do we really need to dominate the world?  Yes, I imagine a lot of people are praying right now and they may be fearful of a perceived right white backlash perhaps?
We truly are one people and the proof is in the DNA of all living things on this planet.  Let's focus on building community that shares and cares for one and all.  And a happy thanksgiving too.

Actually the division is a result of social inequalities rooted in prejudice, or for the white Americans that made up Trumps base feeling left behind. Minorities rioted because they're being targeted unfairly, and though people compare them to criminals it's important to remember Martin Luther King was a criminal and was arrested many times over. He even explained that rioting and looting isn't about the crap people take, it's a way to make people notice you, if you're too quiet and orderly than no one notices or cares. As far as Trumps base goes, many towns in the midwest are in shambles and have suffered the worst from the economic collapse in our country, as most care tends to go to inner cities on the coasts. They literally have been left behind and Trump tricked them into thinking he would make it all better.

Trump isn't going to heal the divisions in this country though, he only barely spoke out against hate crimes or the alt right after being pushed to by everyone and it was easier to get him to comment on Pence's treatment at Hamilton than it was getting him to acknowledge that anything was actually going on.

But if you think Trump "seems like an okay guy" look at the people he has elected to work with, the people he's dragged into office with him all have long histories legislating against us. People like Pence, Steve Bannon, Ted Cruz. Seriously just look at his transition team, anyone who said wait and see, he's literally already made choices that are bad for us. Do you really think these people aren't going to do what they spent their entire careers doing already? Even if Trump turned out to be an alright person, he wouldn't even have the power to stop them because Republicans control every branch of government right now, and the thought that they'll behave any differently now is founded upon nothing.

Quote from: Tessa James on November 24, 2016, 12:12:37 PM
So are we seeing less divisiveness lately?  Do we recall what the unemployment rate and stock market were doing when  President Obama took office?  Have we actually checked on who created more debt?  Do we really need to dominate the world?  Yes, I imagine a lot of people are praying right now and they may be fearful of a perceived right white backlash perhaps?
We truly are one people and the proof is in the DNA of all living things on this planet.  Let's focus on building community that shares and cares for one and all.  And a happy thanksgiving too.

Not sure who is really responsible for the debt but it has more than doubled in the past 8 years. The one thing of which I can be certain; you can't actually blame Bush.

The debt has been climbing steadily under both parties since Reagan was elected.  Only one president since then has reduced the deficit and that was a Democrat, Bill Clinton.


It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves