Ladies and gentlemen,

     I've lived in San Francisco for the past 23 years and, though I'm trans., I really wish to live somewhere semi-rural or even in a small city far from California.  I am concerned though and I wonder what life is like for trans-persons at any stage in their transition or post transition.  Do any of you in places like Arizona, Utah, Idaho, Montana, etc. deal with difficulties and such?  I know, I know, San Francisco is touted as a great place for us MTFs and FTMs, and it's, mostly, without issues.  I'm just in need of a much less crowded environment and a slower pace of life.  Also, I'm really exhausted with clogged streets, highways, public places, etc.  I'm just done with a very crowded environment.  What say you?

As someone who has transitioned in a rural town (in Canada but only 6 miles from the ND border) it can be tough. If you pass or don't dress to attract a lot of attention most people are OK but there are a lot of aholes out there. I have had an OK time. I pass well and have a very laid back attitude and I haven't had any problems. Keep in mind there are TONS of backwoods people who are small minded, but at the end of the day it will be what you make of it. 

I am from a bedroom community near phoenix and next to an alfalfa field. Not far away from me is park land with a mountain on it and also near by is an Indian reservation. The catch is like any town the freeways get clogged during rush hour but in my case, I live 3 miles from work and I have no need to go near the freeway.

As far as trans help, just about anything you might need is available locally including a gender surgeon. I have never had a problem in public and as a part of work I run parts at industrial stores.

Housing is quite cheap as I sold a 1200 square foot condo in Anaheim then bought a 2000 square foot house with about a third of the money left over. If you want to live farther out, you can be more isolated. If you want cooler weather, there are several mountain communities that have real winters with milder summers.

Without knowing the type of work you do and just how isolated you want to be, it's difficult picking an exact location but as long as the climate is comfortable to you, Arizona isn't a bad choice.

I grew up in a small town and was entirely uncomfortable with the gossip that seems inevitable in some small communities. I've lived in Boston all of my adult life and have spent enough time travelling in the boonies to firmly believe I don't want any part of small town life. In a city I have choices of international communities, and am glad to be in a place that fundamentally leans to open minded.

If I were to go rural it's possible that Vermont would work. I've been in small towns in Ohio, Washington, Maine, NH and while there are good points to all of those (well less so Ohio), I would research an area well before moving.

Quote from: SadieBlake on November 28, 2016, 06:52:07 AMI would research an area well before moving.

^^^ Yes, this.

Any rural area is going to have its share of rednecks.  You have to judge how nice (or otherwise) the rednecks are where you want to live.  Where I live, they have a reputation for being really nice, so negative reactions are more likely to include shunning than physical violence. 

Gossip is the fuel that keeps rural communities alive.  If your house is hidden by trees, you can have as much privacy as you want, but anything that can be seen or heard from the road will be public knowledge in 10 minutes.

I am not yet out in my community, and I have to plan my coming out with gossip in mind.  Whoever I tell first, everyone else will know in minutes.  So I have to plan it so that I tell the people first who are most likely to be offended if they don't hear it directly from me.  I have actually had to flowchart the process!

I have spent about all of my life living within a 10 mile radius of NYC. TBH - the NJ side of that circle. I had 2 failed transition experiments and know without a doubt in my not so quaint "Village" the locals will be out with pitch forks and torches if they had a clue about my trans status

Contrast that to 7 years ago when it became clear I needed to take the trans beast on for real, started going to a TG Support group, in time began living part time female, all in rural West Virginia. As in 2-3 hours from DC and 2-3hours from Pittsburgh. (as in 90 minutes to a 'Local' support group)

If I actually lived in NYC I am sure life would be different. On the whole, I'd take crystal clear skies, friendly people, real civility, over PC anytime

You live in one of the Holy Grail's of places to live. For anyone, by the by... and not just Trans folks....
     I am in one of the fly-overs and came from Orange County, CA. after 50 years there. I live in an enclave of educated folks but as a previous poster stated, there are plenty of good ole' boys to be found. Tolerant, is not what I would call the mid west unless you're actually a loaf of white bread. Think hard and long before you move from where you're at. If for no other reason than services for folks like us are, well, rarer than hen's teeth. If you feel the need to bail, I'd look at places Like Eugene, Eureka, Shasta, Redding, Oroville.....you get the idea. Don't isolate yourself like I did. If you're as sorry as I am, you'll spend a lot of time kicking yourself. Good luck though, whatever you may do.

I talked to a girl who lived with her boyfriend in Vermont and she said she had a pretty easy time. I was like "Vermont?!" but she said it was great. Not only was she trans but she was a black girl dating a white guy, so add the interracial element as well. She did live in the city though, but bear in mind seeing as how you are from SanFran, a huge city that's popular, has pro sports teams, a tourist destination, etc, by comparison the city in some other states is more like the "city." I know it may not be ideal because you did ask for "semi-rural" but as you are well aware being trans we have to be careful, our choices may be limited, and rural living can be tough, and I want you and others who may be from bigger cities to perhaps consider that the smaller cities in some other places may be a good compromise. I have heard a few good things about New England from others as well. Maybe that can provide a bit of a lead for you. But I hope you like snow, Cali girl. 

Quote from: Katherine Strawn on November 28, 2016, 12:20:39 AM
Ladies and gentlemen,

I've lived in San Francisco for the past 23 years and, though I'm trans., I really wish to live somewhere semi-rural or even in a small city far from California.  I am concerned though and I wonder what life is like for trans-persons at any stage in their transition or post transition.  Do any of you in places like Arizona, Utah, Idaho, Montana, etc. deal with difficulties and such?  I know, I know, San Francisco is touted as a great place for us MTFs and FTMs, and it's, mostly, without issues.  I'm just in need of a much less crowded environment and a slower pace of life.  Also, I'm really exhausted with clogged streets, highways, public places, etc.  I'm just done with a very crowded environment.  What say you?

I would not recommend AZ, and instead recommend you live somewhere else. Phoenix is not transgender friendly and neither are its suburbs. Tucson is your best bet in that state. I spent ~27 years of my life there and couldn't wait to get out. I would suggest staying in a blue state if you are openly transgender because even the big "liberal" cities inland or in the South that seem transgender friendly, like Atlanta or New Orleans see influence from the hate filled lands that surround them.

The difficulties that I dealt with in Phoenix were not being taken seriously, being in a state where everyone was fine with me not getting my surgeries paid for or my medications covered even though the same surgeries and medications are covered for cisgender women, and the hate and violence there against us is pretty impressive. I remember a week before I left for Cali a transgender woman was murdered a few miles from my family home. My mom didn't want me to return to Cali for school this year but I did, and a week later the police killed this poor transgender guy. The longer I'm out here the less I want to return, seems like I get a sign around the time I'm being pressured to stay too.

And another thing: Most people in Arizona just suck. Their economy sucks. It's built on mining and the state/local governments. They don't even have enough sense to start up a solar panel company in a place where it cracks 100 degrees every day for 4 months straight and you can go days without seeing a single cloud. No, they wait for the Chinese, Spanish, and Australian solar companies to come in lol.

My suggestion is inland Washington. After that maybe Oregon, New York, and some rural parts of New England.

DO NOT go to Utah. EVER. The only exception to that rule is if you don't want to drive around it. Just scratch that off of your list right now.

Quote from: Jean24 on November 29, 2016, 03:21:30 PM
And another thing: Most people in Arizona just suck. Their economy sucks. It's built on mining and the state/local governments. They don't even have enough sense to start up a solar panel company in a place where it cracks 100 degrees every day for 4 months straight and you can go days without seeing a single cloud. No, they wait for the Chinese, Spanish, and Australian solar companies to come in lol.

Copper, Cattle, Cotton, Citrus and Climate. As for solar, who needs it when you have 3 nuclear reactors running 24/7 instead of shutting down at sunset.

Just a 4 hour drive over the hill for you is Reno.  The city is big enough to have all you need and there are plenty of communities around Reno that feel semi-rural that are minutes from downtown.  Decent sized (albeit somewhat disconnected) trans population here too.  Just mentioning it because it is close and really not that bad of a place for transfolk.

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If you want to find out if people will accept you. Put on your best Sunday morning outfit and head off to church. I hear they Love thy neighbor. Put it to the test.

Quote from: Michaela Whimsy on November 29, 2016, 04:59:27 PM
Just a 4 hour drive over the hill for you is Reno.  The city is big enough to have all you need and there are plenty of communities around Reno that feel semi-rural that are minutes from downtown.  Decent sized (albeit somewhat disconnected) trans population here too.  Just mentioning it because it is close and really not that bad of a place for transfolk.

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Yes...Sparks comes to mind. And SF is always just over the hill.

Quote from: Dena on November 29, 2016, 04:37:15 PM
Copper, Cattle, Cotton, Citrus and Climate. As for solar, who needs it when you have 3 nuclear reactors running 24/7 instead of shutting down at sunset.

You're thinking PV solar panels. I wouldn't go near them in Arizona anymore. That type of solar has been made so expensive by Arizonans that there's no real reason to get them anymore in Arizona. Chalk that one up the to the "small government conservatives" who get elected there thanks to their own corporate interests. Even the governor is an ex Cold Stone executive.

http://www.wallstreetdaily.com/2014/12/11/solar-power-rate-increases/

Thermal solar plants generate power at night. A plant 0.6% the size of the US could power the entire US. Meanwhile, Palo Verde generates nuclear waste and has had multiple safety infractions and which is not exactly surprising for a plant that cools itself with sewage.

Quote from: Jean24 on November 29, 2016, 10:00:25 PM
Thermal solar plants generate power at night. A plant 0.6% the size of the US could power the entire US. Meanwhile, Palo Verde generates nuclear waste and has had multiple safety infractions and which is not exactly surprising for a plant that cools itself with sewage.

So you propose covering a quarter of Arizona in solar power plant. That sounds environmentally friendly. By  the way, that's about 22,000 square miles.

Quote from: Dena on November 29, 2016, 10:16:40 PM
So you propose covering a quarter of Arizona in solar power plant. That sounds environmentally friendly. By  the way, that's about 22,000 square miles.

Arizona? No they would never allow it lol that would make sense. So would building arrays on top of the sprawl of buildings and shaded parking lots that cover tens of thousands of square miles. But I'm honestly happy about this, I hope the dimwitted folks who "run" Arizona keep with their plan! It has allowed California to take over. In 2014 we produced more solar than the whole USA did from 1970-2011. In 2015, more than any single reactor at Palo Verde. Keep up the good work!

I lived in a rural place pre-transition and moved to the DC area for college. Like you, I'm getting a bit tired of the hustle and bustle and am looking for an exit plan. I think all of the advice here has been excellent so far, so I will add in:

Don't just research the place you think you want to move to, but go stay there for a period of time as much as your funds will allow. Often things look great online based on pictures, there are few or no questionable events in the local newspapers, you can't find anything negative in local online forums that you can access. But you'll go and discover things that won't work with your lifestyle - maybe the housing you're looking at is actually in a not so nice part of town, maybe everything closes down at 8pm every night, maybe nothing is open on Sundays, maybe the main thoroughfare gets so clogged during commute times that it takes you an extra half hour or more to get from point A to point B. Maybe you just flat out don't feel comfortable walking unaccompanied in public.

Definitely, definitely make a local stay a part of your research process when you think you've narrowed it down, but before you're starting to look for housing. Small towns and rural areas often seem charming or idyllic on the outside looking in. Don't commit to moving somewhere only to find that it's really not actually a good fit based on your needs and comfort level.

Quote from: FTMax on November 30, 2016, 09:45:36 AM
I lived in a rural place pre-transition and moved to the DC area for college. Like you, I'm getting a bit tired of the hustle and bustle and am looking for an exit plan. I think all of the advice here has been excellent so far, so I will add in:

Don't just research the place you think you want to move to, but go stay there for a period of time as much as your funds will allow. Often things look great online based on pictures, there are few or no questionable events in the local newspapers, you can't find anything negative in local online forums that you can access. But you'll go and discover things that won't work with your lifestyle - maybe the housing you're looking at is actually in a not so nice part of town, maybe everything closes down at 8pm every night, maybe nothing is open on Sundays, maybe the main thoroughfare gets so clogged during commute times that it takes you an extra half hour or more to get from point A to point B. Maybe you just flat out don't feel comfortable walking unaccompanied in public.

Definitely, definitely make a local stay a part of your research process when you think you've narrowed it down, but before you're starting to look for housing. Small towns and rural areas often seem charming or idyllic on the outside looking in. Don't commit to moving somewhere only to find that it's really not actually a good fit based on your needs and comfort level.

That's some awesome useful advice, Max. You need to write the book!  Save people a ton of heartache, grief and $$$.

I know a woman who does astrological relocation con$ulting.  As one factor in deciding, it helps.  Also I urbanized when I was 25 and have regretted it since. Fear of economic reality is what keeps me from bucolicizing. So I have surburbanized myself, which in a way is worse than urban core.  I hate cities too.

    I just want to thank you all for your thoughtful responses!  Yeah, life's filled with challenges, isn't it?  The response about Reno being a relatively "trans-friendly" place to live is helpful.  I've been considering nearby Virginia City, Nevada as I really love that little, sleepy, antique, Victorian, doll-house, Old West town.  Challenges, challenges.  What's a girl to do?  I do love San Francisco still.  It's just that it's become WAY too crowded over the past ten years!  I know that I would miss it, but at the same time, I'm really done with it.  I'm an RN so I'm sure that finding employment elsewhere won't be impossible.  My favorite cousin, from Marin County, lives in Missoula, Montana, a college town.  He's gay, very supportive of me, and has several gay friends and they all really like Missoula.  That's another possibility for me, as well.  Hmm. 

     Thank you all again!  ;-D  Your responses to me are honest and I do feel everyone's support.  Feel free to keep the reponses coming.  XO