Hi,

I am new to this site, but not new to the world of transitioning since I kinda did all of that about 13 years ago.  The reason I am posting here for the first time is that I am scheduled to go to Yeson in early February.  I just learned about Yeson a few weeks back after battling some depression over my voice.  My transition has been very successful, at least I think so, with the exception of my voice, which according to my friend is good, but makes me uncomfortable.  I know when I hear it I cringe and for the longest time, I just accepted that was all I could do. 

Now that I have found Yeson and am taking these steps, I wanted some insight into other's experiences.  The number one concern I have is not speaking or limiting how much I speak, be it for a week or for a whole month.  What techniques have people used to keep from speaking?  Or to prevent accidentally coughing, sneezing, or just saying some random word?

I do a bit of writing and I tend to run dialogues in my head speaking out the words occasionally.  It is just something I do, and I worry that it is so ingrained that I cannot help but do it.  I know that sounds crazy, but we all have our idiosyncrasies. 

I have read through (well skimmed actually—there is a lot on this site) about some of the experiences with Yeson, I would appreciate any insight you all have regarding the travel, jet lag, keeping yourself occupied for a week, etc.  As well as anything I should know about the procedure.  I am not nervous about the operation, but it has been over a decade since I had SRS and FFS.  Guidance and info is really what I am looking for. 

Thanks much in advance,
Sarah

Welcome to Susan's Place. I went with Dr Haben but there is much alike between the two doctors. Because I could, I started living with a 3 hour offset before I left. This made making the airline real easy even with an early flight because I was getting up at about 3am.

Yeson wants a month of no speaking where as I only need a week but ended up with two. The trick I used is the week before I left, I avoided speaking as much as possible, worked out ways of coughing, sneezing and other issues. I found that exhaling hard leaning forward could clear accumulations, and some foods like chocolate needed to be avoided. Sipping ice water, letting it warm a bit in your mouth before swallowing works to control coughs and helps with any pain you may feel. Last but not least Sneezing is an issue for me so I was on antihistamines once I returned home to avoid the local weeds.

In my case, the tools gave my mouth a real beating(stiff neck was the problem) so after surgery I wanted soft foods and soups. This isn't true of most cases but still you might want to have some soup available as it feels good going down at first.

Dr Haben says to control the things you can and don't worry about the things you can't. Both surgeries seem to be strong enough to withstand the occasional mistake so if you make one, don't worry about it. Just do the best you can.

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Hi Dena,

Thanks for the advice that is the stuff I need--little tricks and tips.  The things you don't think about.  I am a detail person, so I do tend to overthink things from time to time.     

I have already been spending more time thinking about the not talking and increasing my awareness of when I do.  Mostly I am amazed at how much I actually do talk to myself.  I guess that just stems from the work I do.  But you are probably right with practicing before actually having to do it.  I like the advice of controlling the things you can and not worrying about the things you cannot.

Thanks for the links, I have already read through them.  I actually remember this site from years ago, but most of my friends were on another message board that I cannot even remember what it was called.  I think it was the one Calpernia started up.  It is funny how time flies.

Much thanks again and I am thrilled that a resource such as this is still serving so many.  This makes me happy.
- Sarah

Better watch out as when I first came to this site, I was looking for voice surgery. You can still read my initial post(s) about it. Somewhere along the line when I wasn't looking they stuck this moderator badge on me. I think it had something to do with being older than the hills, being post surgical more than half my life and not being able to keep my mouth shut. 

HAHA...

Been there, done that.  I am going to try to keep a low profile.  I got my hands full wrangling 10 CIS women on a roller derby team, I don't think I could handle everyone on this site.  Not sure they could handle me... LOL

We already have a member who had voice surgery and is on a roller derby team. She had her surgery I think the week after mine as there were two appointments available when I took mine so she got the one after mine which was a week latter. This is the link to my thread that might be useful for you to read as it details most of the first few months.

This was quite helpful thank you.  It is nice to read the challenges and the progress following the procedure.

I also have a question about singing after VFS.  While I am not a professional singer, I do sing quite often.  I have a very dynamic range and perfect pitch.  Has anyone experienced issues retraining your singing voice?  Similarly, once the pitch is increased following surgery, would my range shift higher?

I am fine losing the ability to mimic Leonard Cohen...LOL, but I also want to make sure I can still belt out "You Know I'm No Good" by Amy Winehouse.   

Nothing is sure about VFS including a good outcome. Normally I recommend that VFS be considered as a last resort because failure could leave your voice worst off than it is. Doctors don't promise you that your range will shift and people with a large range tend not to see it shift. However I am the exception. Pre surgical my head voice was 130-190 hz which meant my only options for a feminine voice was surgery. Post surgical, I am may still not be at full range but I seem to be able to drop to about 140 hz and I peak out at about 700. My strongest voice comes at about 220 hz. One other disadvantage is you will not be able to produce the volume that you once could but it should be sufficient most of the time.

As for a singing voice, my male voice was bass so I never bother to sing after my voice changed. After all, that was before Johnny Cash made it big so there weren't that many popular songs that low.

To late That's what Dena thought when I helped enlist her. Having said that Dena's voice is a huge improvement as a result of voice surgery considering where she started. Both voice surgeons that are commonly used have different techniques so I'm sure you will be pleased regardless of which one you choose. Hugs
Mariah

Quote from: Inarasarah on November 27, 2016, 03:29:01 PM
HAHA...

Been there, done that.  I am going to try to keep a low profile.  I got my hands full wrangling 10 CIS women on a roller derby team, I don't think I could handle everyone on this site.  Not sure they could handle me... LOL

Thanks Mariah & Dena,

I am fairly certain I can regain, or at least not lose, my ability to sing.  Music is such an important part of my life that I cannot see myself not singing.  I grew up with vocal training and have been singing with vocal training since I was in the 9th grade, and I still use that training today.  So I am sure I can still do it.  Plus my friends would never let me not sing at karaoke.    I might have to find a new partner for "Paradise by the Dashboard Light"...LOL

The results that I have seen and heard from Yeson have very much impressed me, and opened my eyes that this could work for me.  Honestly, I was at a support group holiday party about 12 years ago and there was a woman there who had voice surgery, and her voice struck me as not natural, almost like Minnie Mouse, which frankly did not fit her body (IMHO).  So I focused more on altering my resonance and pitch through voice lessons by a wonderful local speech therapist.  According to by friend, who is actually accompanying to Seoul, she said my voice sounds fine, which is probably because she is my friend.

Looking back on my transition, I was very much involved in my local support group and at the local LGBT youth center.  I even served on the board of a national LGBT advocacy organization.  But about 9 years ago I step away from all of that.  I started playing roller derby and it sort of took over my life—it does that.  But I noticed during that time, I no longer hung around my old friends who I transitioned with and I no longer outwardly did a lot of advocacy support.  I kinda went stealth, I guess, even though I was never in the closet about being trans.  I just no longer focused on that aspect, and I fully embraced where I was at in life, be it work, sport, or friends.  My new circle of friends, in fact all of my close friends now are cis-women.  While I do not regret this, I find it hard to talk about some of these issues.  Especially after deciding to go to Yeson.  I needed to reach out to community again to help me answer these questions and to get some support.

I am happy to have found this place and people open to talking about VFS.  I have learned so much in just the last month.  It feels like when I was approaching FFS and SRS.  There is a jittery feeling—it is good, it is scary, it is exciting.  So thank you all for your kind words, and tolerating me for a while.

-Sarah


p.s. - Mariah, I notice by your ticker that you just had SRS...mazel tov!!  Congratz on the new vagina!

I have no doubt you will be able to, but do remember don't go trying to sing right after surgery. Your vocal cords are going to need major healing time before you can push them to the limits of sining. I know not being able to sing would be a pain. I love to sing too and I suppose that is something that helped make the vocal range I have easier to maintain and keep all these years. Hugs
Mariah

Quote from: Inarasarah on November 28, 2016, 09:50:21 AM
Thanks Mariah & Dena,

I am fairly certain I can regain, or at least not lose, my ability to sing.  Music is such an important part of my life that I cannot see myself not singing.  I grew up with vocal training and have been singing with vocal training since I was in the 9th grade, and I still use that training today.  So I am sure I can still do it.  Plus my friends would never let me not sing at karaoke.    I might have to find a new partner for "Paradise by the Dashboard Light"...LOL

The results that I have seen and heard from Yeson have very much impressed me, and opened my eyes that this could work for me.  Honestly, I was at a support group holiday party about 12 years ago and there was a woman there who had voice surgery, and her voice struck me as not natural, almost like Minnie Mouse, which frankly did not fit her body (IMHO).  So I focused more on altering my resonance and pitch through voice lessons by a wonderful local speech therapist.  According to by friend, who is actually accompanying to Seoul, she said my voice sounds fine, which is probably because she is my friend.

Looking back on my transition, I was very much involved in my local support group and at the local LGBT youth center.  I even served on the board of a national LGBT advocacy organization.  But about 9 years ago I step away from all of that.  I started playing roller derby and it sort of took over my life—it does that.  But I noticed during that time, I no longer hung around my old friends who I transitioned with and I no longer outwardly did a lot of advocacy support.  I kinda went stealth, I guess, even though I was never in the closet about being trans.  I just no longer focused on that aspect, and I fully embraced where I was at in life, be it work, sport, or friends.  My new circle of friends, in fact all of my close friends now are cis-women.  While I do not regret this, I find it hard to talk about some of these issues.  Especially after deciding to go to Yeson.  I needed to reach out to community again to help me answer these questions and to get some support.

I am happy to have found this place and people open to talking about VFS.  I have learned so much in just the last month.  It feels like when I was approaching FFS and SRS.  There is a jittery feeling—it is good, it is scary, it is exciting.  So thank you all for your kind words, and tolerating me for a while.

-Sarah

Yep I am aware, and I will follow all of the post surigcal recovery rules to the letter.

All good things come to those who wait.

-S

That is the one thing as I'm starting and moving on with my life is that I'm moving into more of a stealth role outside of here too. Other than a few people as I move into that role of getting married and having in laws in the like very few of them will actually no about my past so I can totally understand that. I think it is something we do over time as we grow and just live our lives that we leave that past behind us. The two weeks I spent after my surgery in Arizona with my fiancé were wonderful and well we just lived like any other couple would and no one around us knew the never mind about my past. We didn't talk about  and it wasn't brought up. So I can understand. it's natural and just part of this process. Congrats on everything you have accomplished.

Quote from: Inarasarah on November 28, 2016, 09:50:21 AM
Looking back on my transition, I was very much involved in my local support group and at the local LGBT youth center.  I even served on the board of a national LGBT advocacy organization.  But about 9 years ago I step away from all of that.  I started playing roller derby and it sort of took over my life—it does that.  But I noticed during that time, I no longer hung around my old friends who I transitioned with and I no longer outwardly did a lot of advocacy support.  I kinda went stealth, I guess, even though I was never in the closet about being trans.  I just no longer focused on that aspect, and I fully embraced where I was at in life, be it work, sport, or friends.  My new circle of friends, in fact all of my close friends now are cis-women.  While I do not regret this, I find it hard to talk about some of these issues.  Especially after deciding to go to Yeson.  I needed to reach out to community again to help me answer these questions and to get some support.

Thank you. I'm happy with it and very quickly that past of something else is being forgotten completely. It's what we are here for. You have that one thing just needs a little fixing to allow you to be more comfortable with things and so you search out info to deal with that issue. It's how I found this place. I needed just two pieces of info and got them before even joining. Then I just stuck around to help other since I know how difficult it can be especially when your first trying to figure things out. Good luck with VFS. Hugs
Mariah

Quote from: Inarasarah on November 28, 2016, 09:50:21 AM

I am happy to have found this place and people open to talking about VFS.  I have learned so much in just the last month.  It feels like when I was approaching FFS and SRS.  There is a jittery feeling—it is good, it is scary, it is exciting.  So thank you all for your kind words, and tolerating me for a while.

-Sarah


p.s. - Mariah, I notice by your ticker that you just had SRS...mazel tov!!  Congratz on the new vagina!

I still wanted to make sure because so many forget our voices have to be at there best to be able to sing well and when there not well disastrous things can occur with our vocal cords so it is why I wanted to be sure to note the importance of that considering how fragile our vocal cords really are. Hugs
Mariah

Quote from: Inarasarah on November 28, 2016, 10:04:52 AM
Yep I am aware, and I will follow all of the post surigcal recovery rules to the letter.

All good things come to those who wait.

-S

Oh Scottsdale 

My third trip down there was for SRS.  Does Dr. Toby still have that mustache?  I actually find that I have gone back to Phoenix a lot over the last 13 years since SRS.  Many times to play derby and once to the Phoenix comic-con (yep I am a nerd).  Each time I go there I do think back to my stay, and the friends that were there with me, and the friends I went down there with for their surgeries.  Good memories.

Best wishes for your marriage, it is a wonderful thing and the fact your fiancé was with you throughout your surgery speaks volumes to me.  I wish you both happiness and long life together.  I am certain it will be wonderful.

Cheers to you both,
-Sarah

I don't recall the mustache on Dr. Meltzer at all. Then again I was living in the moment too. Yeah I went to the Phoenix Comic Con Fan fest just days before my surgery with my fiancé and that was blast. Thank You. Me too. Yeah I had my fiancé with me all along and then I had help of Dena on top of that which came in handy when I started dilations. Cheers. Hugs
Mariah

Quote from: Inarasarah on November 28, 2016, 10:19:41 AM
Oh Scottsdale 

My third trip down there was for SRS.  Does Dr. Toby still have that mustache?  I actually find that I have gone back to Phoenix a lot over the last 13 years since SRS.  Many times to play derby and once to the Phoenix comic-con (yep I am a nerd).  Each time I go there I do think back to my stay, and the friends that were there with me, and the friends I went down there with for their surgeries.  Good memories.

Best wishes for your marriage, it is a wonderful thing and the fact your fiancé was with you throughout your surgery speaks volumes to me.  I wish you both happiness and long life together.  I am certain it will be wonderful.

Cheers to you both,
-Sarah

Quote from: Inarasarah on November 28, 2016, 09:50:21 AM
The results that I have seen and heard from Yeson have very much impressed me, and opened my eyes that this could work for me.  Honestly, I was at a support group holiday party about 12 years ago and there was a woman there who had voice surgery, and her voice struck me as not natural, almost like Minnie Mouse, which frankly did not fit her body (IMHO).  So I focused more on altering my resonance and pitch through voice lessons by a wonderful local speech therapist.  According to by friend, who is actually accompanying to Seoul, she said my voice sounds fine, which is probably because she is my friend.

That can be one of the complications of the surgery. The tie must not exceed 50% or you will lose voice quality. In my case I am near 50% because I needed all the increase in pitch that was possible. Dr Haben said he could give me 60 hz but I ended up with about 80 hz. It's possible for the cords in the process of healing to exceed the 50% mark and we have one member who that happened to.

The other issue is therapy. Another member was pushing 250 hz because she thought pitch was the only issue and the voice sounded false. Lowering the pitch gave her more range to work with and produced a more natural sounding voice. Surgery is only half the voice and therapy or knowing how to use the voice is the other half. As you have had therapy already it sound not be difficult for you to take advantage of the new voice.

Dena,

This is what I am hoping.  I have already had vocal training, and I hope that I am able to utilize that to my advantage.  Ultimately, if I can pass on the phone, I will be ecstatic.

Cheers

Hi I saw Dr. Kim earlier this year - my thread should be further down on the list I think. Documented what I did in Korea and some other things.

I can definitely sing a lot more easily after the surgery. However I am not sure if it is due to the surgery or the voice exercises I'm doing (Dr. Kim will give you some to do).

Your voice will sound natural afterwards, baring some sort of adverse 'event'.  The way they used to do the voice surgeries in the past had a much greater tendency to result in the minnie mouse-type voice.  Also, I reckon that most of the time you're only going to get 40-60Hz from Yeson and not the 75Hz that is bandied about a lot.  As others have said, resonance doesn't change and if you have a very good trained voice now you'll have to relearn that a bit afterwards I think.  My old resonance method results in my voice being too high (I was linking resonance and pitch somehow), so it's been taking me a while to get it down again.

Still, I'm very happy!  Best of luck and ask any questions you want, of course!