I just started HRT this week. I wanted to ask the group if anyone else sorta matched my profile would advise me of their experience. Here's the background info:

I've been on low dosage spiro for about six years for a heart condition. I'm pretty sure it's a combination of the spiro, aging and weight gain that has given me a pair of smallish boobs. I measure 40" for the band size and 42" across the breasts. Some bra calculators would say that's a B cup, but it's really not the case for me. There's just not enough volume to fill a B cup that's not one of those stretch cup type.

I've seen reports from others that started HRT that say they "developed a bud underneath their areola" that varies in size. I think I have something like that but I'd say it's behind my areola and about the size of slightly flattened boiled egg. I'm not sure I can say which tissues are "bud," fat or muscle.

I'd love to hear the about the experiences from anyone that started HRT with some breast development.

All the best,
--AshleyP

I was on finasteride, a weak anti-androgen to prevent DHT production, for about 6 years before starting spironolactone and estrodiol.  I had moobs, A-cup roughly.

About a month after starting estrodiol I had breast tenderness, and a small hard lump behind the areola.  6 months in, I've got a pretty good B cup going already, pointy and slowly filling in, roughly Tanner Stage 3.  That hard lump is considerably larger and there is additional growth occurring.

Don't get any expectations. You might get what you want and you might not. I was expecting large B cups and what I got was 1 full small b and 1 barely rounded A cup. I'm only 1 year on hormones so hopefully I'll see more growth.

I can't wait to turn my moobs into boobs. I was actually looking at myself in the mirror after shaving. It sad, but, I saw I have moobs. I was fantasizing they were real. I really can't wait.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Buds are cute, they're like this little hard structure back there. But be careful they hurt like you would not believe. As for the bra size calculators online, idk. They all give me different bra sizes. I took the measurements for bust and band when I was completely exhaled and completely inhaled. It came out to 39 bust 33 band which I verified both and they felt about average. Some calculators have you take out 4-5 inches or something like that and then do your band. This one is saying I'm a 38 E which just sounds insane.

http://www.calculator.net/bra-size-calculator.html?bustsize=39&bustsizeunit=inch&framesize=33&framesizeunit=inch&x=50&y=18

Here's another one, 34DDD

http://www.sophisticatedpair.com/bra-size-calculator/

This one is giving me 38B

http://www.85b.org/bra_calc.php

I guess I'll get measured eventually and stop wearing sports bras haha. But yeah in my experience the moobs turn to boobs and get nice and firm hahaha.

Quote from: Angélique LaCava on November 29, 2016, 11:12:33 PM
Don't get any expectations. You might get what you want and you might not. I was expecting large B cups and what I got was 1 full small b and 1 barely rounded A cup. I'm only 1 year on hormones so hopefully I'll see more growth.

Wow that sounds awful! Have you talked to your doctor? I mean I know they CAN be different sizes in the end and grow differently, but that sounds a bit extreme. Also I'm blown away that you have only been on HRT for one year.

Quote from: Jean24 on November 30, 2016, 01:03:34 AM
Wow that sounds awful! Have you talked to your doctor? I mean I know they CAN be different sizes in the end and grow differently, but that sounds a bit extreme. Also I'm blown away that you have only been on HRT for one year.

no I haven't talked to her. I'll see how they get in a few months then I'll talk to her. What could she do to help tho? I've gotten blood work and she said my levels are perfect.

Quote from: Angélique LaCava on November 30, 2016, 01:15:13 AM
no I haven't talked to her. I'll see how they get in a few months then I'll talk to her. What could she do to help tho? I've gotten blood work and she said my levels are perfect.

Idk if she's giving you progesterone but it really is a critical hormone in general. Typically we don't get progesterone because doctors only like to acknowledge the health effects of progesterone on the uterus. But it really is critical, even right down to your bone health.

Specifically in the boobs department, it encourages growth far more than E does. It also helps prevent breast cancer while estrogen (remember the warnings about transgender HRT and increased risks of breast cancer??) increases it. Women are designed to have these 2 hormones and IMHO we shouldn't be without either one.

I had a slightly larger left breast last year in the midst of my growing but I was on a lot of synthetic oral progesterone and later an over the counter cream. It seems to have helped.

Also I'd like to stress that this is what your doctor MIGHT do and that this is what the hormones, Estrogen and Progesterone, have been found to do.

Quote from: Jean24 on November 30, 2016, 01:33:29 AM
Idk if she's giving you progesterone but it really is a critical hormone in general. Typically we don't get progesterone because doctors only like to acknowledge the health effects of progesterone on the uterus. But it really is critical, even right down to your bone health.

Specifically in the boobs department, it encourages growth far more than E does. It also helps prevent breast cancer while estrogen (remember the warnings about transgender HRT and increased risks of breast cancer??) increases it. Women are designed to have these 2 hormones and IMHO we shouldn't be without either one.

I had a slightly larger left breast last year in the midst of my growing but I was on a lot of synthetic oral progesterone and later an over the counter cream. It seems to have helped.

Also I'd like to stress that this is what your doctor MIGHT do and that this is what the hormones, Estrogen and Progesterone, have been found to do.

ive been on progesterone since august.

Uneven growth seems pretty common.  Early on all my growth was on the right side.  Then that stopped, and the left side took off.  At this point the left side is about 100 cc larger than the right, so I have a 100 cc silicone pad tucked in the right cup on some bras so I don't fall over sideways .

Quote from: Jean24 on November 30, 2016, 01:33:29 AM
even right down to your bone health.

Have there been studies showing a positive effect of progesterone on bone health/metabolism?

QuoteSpecifically in the boobs department, it encourages growth far more than E does.

P appears to predominantly stimulate lobules and acini (for milk production) while estrogen, ducts (channels where milk circulates) in the breasts. P has also shown to decrease breast proliferation because it downregulates the effects of E, in postmenopausal and premenopausal women.

Fertil Steril. 1998 May;69(5):963-9.

"Increasing the estradiol concentration enhanced the number of cycling epithelial cells, whereas increasing the progesterone concentration significantly limited the number of cycling epithelial cells."

"Exposure to progesterone for 14 days reduced the estradiol-induced proliferation of normal breast epithelial cells in vivo."

Fertil Steril. 1995 Apr;63(4):785-91.

"Increased E2 concentration increases the number of cycling epithelial cells. Increased P concentration significantly decreases the number of cycling epithelial cells."

"Exposure to P for 10 to 13 days reduces E2-induced proliferation of normal breast epithelial cells in vivo."

Personally, I see an increase in breast volume with progesterone, with an increase in nipple size and areola size. They become more prominent, rounder and heavier.

QuoteIt also helps prevent breast cancer while estrogen (remember the warnings about transgender HRT and increased risks of breast cancer??) increases it.

Two things:

1) HRT does not appear to increase breast cancer risk in transgendered women.

Journal of Clinical & Translational Endocrinology 2 (2015) 55-60

"There is no increase in cancer prevalence or mortality due to transgender HT."

"While some guidelines for transgender medical care express concerns for elevated cancer risk with certain hormone regimes, current data suggest that the risk of cancer may not rise."

"Although studies are small, overall cancer incidence in transgender men and transgender women to-date has not been found to be different than their respective male and female controls [5]. There are no reports of change in breast cancer specific risk among transgender individuals on estrogen compared to secular trends of male breast cancer incidence. Rates are lower relative to secular trends of female breast cancer rates."

2) Estrogen taken alone in randomized controlled trials in ciswomen has shown to REDUCE breast cancer risk significantly.

BMJ. 2012 Oct 9;345

"A significant interaction was found between hormone replacement therapy and age at baseline for the composite endpoint mortality or breast cancer (P=0.028) with the younger women (<50 years) receiving hormone therapy having a significantly reduced risk (0.49, 0.28 to 0.87, P=0.015, fig 6). Women who had undergone hysterectomy (n=192) and received oestrogen alone had a decreased risk of death or breast cancer compared with women in the control group (0.42, 0.18 to 0.97; P=0.043; fig 6)."

Lancet Oncol. 2012 May;13(5):476-86

"By contrast with many observational studies, women in the Women's Health Initiative (WHI) trial who were randomly allocated to receive oestrogen alone had a lower incidence of invasive breast cancer than did those who received placebo."

"After a median follow-up of 11·8 years (IQR 9·1-12·9), the use of oestrogen for a median of 5·9 years (2·5-7·3) was associated with lower incidence of invasive breast cancer (151 cases, 0·27% per year) compared with placebo (199 cases, 0·35% per year; HR 0·77, 95% CI 0·62-0·95; p=0·02) with no difference (p=0·76) between intervention phase (0·79, 0·61-1·02) and post-intervention phase effects (0·75, 0·51-1·09)."

"In the oestrogen group, fewer women died from breast cancer (six deaths, 0·009% per year) compared with controls (16 deaths, 0·024% per year; HR 0·37, 95% CI 0·13-0·91; p=0·03). Fewer women in the oestrogen group died from any cause after a breast cancer diagnosis (30 deaths, 0·046% per year) than did controls (50 deaths, 0·076%; HR 0·62, 95% CI 0·39-0·97; p=0·04)."

Prz Menopauzalny. 2015 Jun; 14(2): 134–143.

"A recent publication presenting results obtained in the 13-year follow-up of women who took part in the Women's Health Initiative (WHI) study demonstrated that the total relative risk (RR) of breast cancer was 1.28 (1.11-1.48) in oestrogen/progestogen therapy, and 0.79 (0.65-0.97) in oestrogen monotherapy. The values were statistically significant in both cases, suggesting that the increase or decrease in the risk of breast cancer was crucially dependent on the presence of progestogen (in this case medroxyprogesterone acetate) [20]."

No increase in breast cancer risk was found with the use of bio-identical progesterone in other studies.

Fertil Steril. 2016 Oct 25.

"In the WHI study and the Danish Osteoporosis Prevention Study, women using ET after hysterectomy compared with placebo showed more than a 20% reduced risk of developing breast cancer and more than a 60% reduced risk of dying of breast cancer."

ET= estrogen therapy (estrogen alone)


Studies have also shown no increase in breast cancer incidence or even a decrease in women treated with estrogen after surviving breast cancer compared to placebo while high doses of estrogens have also shown promise in the treatment of breast cancer.

JAMA. 1962 Nov 10;182(6):632-6.

"9 of 15 patients, including 1 man, with advanced mammary cancer were improved by treatment with a combination (...) of progesterone and (...) estradiol benzoate administered intramuscularly every day."

"A combination of (...) of progesterone and (...) of estradiol benzoate injected intramuscularly and daily, induced measurable and clinically worthwhile improvement in 9 of 15 patients, including 1 man, with disseminated mammary cancer"

Cancer Treat Rep. 1979 Nov-Dec;63(11-12):1803-7.

"The effect of polyestradiol phosphate (Estradurin), a long-acting estrogen preparation given im, was assessed in 24 elderly postmenopausal patients with stage II or III primary or recurrent breast carcinoma. Although the drug has been available for many years, there has been no report in the literature of its use in treating breast carcinoma. The results of this study show that a total of 17 of 24 (70.8%) patients had evidence of tumor regression lasting a minimum of 3 months, while in 14 (58.3%) patients regression was maintained for greater than or equal to 6 months. Seven patients had complete (100%) tumor regression. Side effects were almost nonexistent and the agent has been shown to be effective, with good patient acceptability and guaranteed administration."

JAMA. 2009 August 19; 302(7): 774–780.

"The efficacy of a synthetic estrogen, diethylstilbestrol (DES) 1 in the treatment of breast cancer was first described by Haddow in the 1940's"

In this study, low and high dose oral 17-beta estradiol induced a clinical benefit rate of 28-29% in advanced breast carcinoma in post-menopausal women.

The same findings were reproduced in rats.

Quote from: Angélique LaCava on November 29, 2016, 11:12:33 PM
Don't get any expectations. You might get what you want and you might not. I was expecting large B cups and what I got was 1 full small b and 1 barely rounded A cup. I'm only 1 year on hormones so hopefully I'll see more growth.

J Sex Reprod Med Vol 1 No 1 Summer 2001
Towards optimal hormonal treatment of male to female gender identity disorder

"The breast, nipple, and areola develop just as during female puberty, taking usually three to six years. Body weight and genetic predisposition affect the final breast size."

Journal of the Gay and Lesbian Medical Association, Vol. 4, No. 4, 2000

"Although most breast development occurs in the first 1–2 years of hormonal therapy, 4–6 years may be required for full maturation (31)."

Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). 1982 Apr;16(4):359-68.

"The pattern of the pubertal process is one of sequential steps. Signs of puberty are the result of a rise in gonadotrophins and sex hormones. In girls oestrogens influence the development of breasts and vulva (Lee et al., 1976; Finkelstein, 1980). The average time period from the appearance of breast buds to full maturation of the breast has been found to be 4.5+2 years (Marshall & Tanner, 1969)."

Quote from: Angélique LaCava on November 29, 2016, 11:12:33 PM
Don't get any expectations. You might get what you want and you might not. I was expecting large B cups and what I got was 1 full small b and 1 barely rounded A cup. I'm only 1 year on hormones so hopefully I'll see more growth.

Didn't you already get a breast augmentation? Doesn't that mess things up when they're still growing? :s

In any case, boob development takes YEARS. For cis-women, up to 10 years, actually. The same counts for us, but we usually get a bit less than our cis-cousins.

In any case, I've been on HRT for 13 months now and mine are still growing steadily. Guys seem to like them plenty

Quote from: elineq on November 30, 2016, 12:19:25 PM
Didn't you already get a breast augmentation? Doesn't that mess things up when they're still growing? :s

In any case, boob development takes YEARS. For cis-women, up to 10 years, actually. The same counts for us, but we usually get a bit less than our cis-cousins.

In any case, I've been on HRT for 13 months now and mine are still growing steadily. Guys seem to like them plenty

i wasn't  complaining about mine till the other day. Every guy I've been with since starting hormones never complained.... I hooked up with a guy the other night and when I took off my top he expressed how small he thought they were and was like "they are still developing though right" and I said yea and he said "well you still have time to grow boobs".

Quote from: Michelle_P on November 29, 2016, 11:10:18 PM

About a month after starting estrodiol I had breast tenderness, and a small hard lump behind the areola.  6 months in, I've got a pretty good B cup going already, pointy and slowly filling in, roughly Tanner Stage 3.  That hard lump is considerably larger and there is additional growth occurring.

Michelle, how large was that lump when you noticed it and what size is it now? Thanks for the input.

All the best,
--AshleyP

Ashley I developed  some level of gynecomastia as an 18 yo and secretly loved it.  Occasionally when wearing a t-shirt someone would say, hey you have titties like a little girl!  I would reply, thanks for noticing   I don't know why I developed like that?  My partner suggested because of pot smoking in Vietnam   My breasts have always been important to me and I felt them to be twice their actual size anyway.  And now with HRT they really are as I push a nice B cup.  I am delighted every day and only need to look down or squeeze myself to feel wonderful, real and validated.

To KayXo: Thank you for staying abreast of the science and data.   I credit you, in some measure, for now being happily on micronized progesterone.  This is a place to learn and share yes?

Quote from: AshleyP on November 30, 2016, 01:08:37 PM
Michelle, how large was that lump when you noticed it and what size is it now? Thanks for the input.

Initially it was a hard, sore little spot maybe 3/4 inch across.  Now it's a tight cluster of hard tissue (the developing simple mammary glands within the complex) about 2 1/2 inches across, a bit irregular, surrounded by a good bit of soft tissue.

Quote from: Angélique LaCava on November 30, 2016, 10:32:34 AM
ive been on progesterone since august.

Well that's good. It took me about 4 months afterward for it to start evening out, I hope it kicks in for you soon.

Quote from: Tessa James on November 30, 2016, 02:26:04 PMI credit you, in some measure, for now being happily on progestin.  This is a place to learn and share yes?

Yes, it is. If you are on bio-identical progesterone, you are not on a progestin. Progestins include all progestogens that aren't bio-identical while progestogens is the umbrella term for all of them, including progesterone AND progestins.

Quote from: KayXo on November 30, 2016, 05:47:27 PM
Yes, it is. If you are on bio-identical progesterone, you are not on a progestin. Progestins include all progestogens that aren't bio-identical while progestogens is the umbrella term for all of them, including progesterone AND progestins.

Like I said, I'm just starting HRT, but I noticed on the stamped prescription form that the clinic uses there were entries for estrogen, spiro and Provera and blank lines for entry of the frequency and dosage amount (there was even a line for ftm testosterone injections). So I'm assuming  they prescribe Provera by default. There's a huge difference in cost between medroxyprogesterone acetate (Provera) and micronized progesterone (Prometrium). Out of pocket, it appears that Prometrium is over 10 times the expense of Provera. Perhaps that's why Provera is widely used.

Kay, do you cycle your progesterone? And I thank you too, Kay, for the information and input that you provide.

--AshleyP

Quote from: KayXo on November 30, 2016, 05:47:27 PM
Yes, it is. If you are on bio-identical progesterone, you are not on a progestin. Progestins include all progestogens that aren't bio-identical while progestogens is the umbrella term for all of them, including progesterone AND progestins.

Thanks again, i sit corrected