So this happens:

Today, 12/6/16 I had my last laser appointment of a single 6-session facial treatment package. The technician who treated me wants to see me again on January 3 and start me on a new facial package. Nothing is set in stone and in the drop of a hat, i can call and cancel, but here's the thing: i still have the facial hair shadow. After the previous session however, there is a part of the stubble that's been... erased... so to speak. It's barely noticeable though.

As i rub my finger against my chin, i feel a bald spot. I don't know if that means the hair won't be growing back there in that area but it feels smooth - a little grainy still yet but somewhat smooth. The place where i get my laser treatments do not want their clients having electrolysis 3 weeks before a laser appointment. I bring that up because i am considering having a electrolysis session.

The top reason i have to keep returning to the laser place because i would very much like to have this stubble removed a.s.a.p. Honestly, the hair doesn't seem to be growing back as persistently but the stubble is still there except for that one fading spot. But other than that, it doesn't look like it's going away. I'm hoping this next package will finish it off and make much of the hair stop. Then i would go for the electrolysis. I highly doubt electrolysis will help with the stubble.

This all makes me wonder: should i go ahead and order this new package or am i just wasting my dam money?

This is a tricky subject many because there are so many factors involved. Do you understand the hair growth cycle and how it effects laser treatment?

If you do then sorry but I will explain it really briefly and in simple terms. You have three phases of hair growth, dormant growing and dying (there are far more technical terms for these but for the sake of plain English) With laser it can only work on the Dark hair and works best with a lighter skin color. I have had 15 session now and I am very close to being able to count the number of black facial hairs I have. It does nothing for grey, blonde or light coloured hair.

For Laser to kill the follicle it must be in the growth stage unfortunately I don't know if there is an easy way to tell this. So you have to go on for a number of session. I will end up with about 20 in total they way things are going

Electrolysis kills any visible hair permanently depending on a couple of things. The first being that the correct current is applied and secondly applied long enough so the hair slides out easily. If there is any resistance at all then the chances are the follicle has not been killed. My electrologist who is excellent says she will get about a 90%+ first kill rate, she aims for a 100% kill but that is exceptionally difficult. This is currently the final solution for hair removal. I am a great believer in Laser providing the requirements are met so that you have the dark hair and lighter skin colors

Liz

I had mostly black facial hair and I did a years worth of laser using a late model high tech dual mode laser on my face and neck. The results were awesome.... for about a year. And then the crap started growing back, but this time it was full of thick white and grey hairs.

I gave up on laser and now i'm about 23 hours into electro. The thick ones hurt like the dickens when she zaps them, but I can see steady progress so i'm sticking with it and am enduring the pain.

Some people have great results on laser, while some - not so much. Your mileage may vary.

I have learned not to trust what the technicians for laser and electrolysis says. First laser, I used the latest laser for removal of dark hairs at a very well know laser place, Yet, after over 20 plus sessions I still had some dark hairs but now had white terminal hair. I do not have heavy facial hair growth.

So then came electrolysis. I had 200 plus hours of Thermal, never fully removed the terminal hairs. You can feel the stubble of terminal hairs at the begining and not so feelable after many sessions. They differ from vallus hairs in their length. I understand that cis females have this issue with a few hairs.

I then switched to galvanic and while more painful it seems to be very effective. But then again maybe after the years of battle they only need the final push.

Today, after battling for 3 years Im 99pct clear. I stilk go every 3 months to battle some tough stragglers

Quote from: Annaiyah on December 06, 2016, 07:25:09 PM
Today, 12/6/16 I had my last laser appointment of a single 6-session facial treatment package. The technician who treated me wants to see me again on January 3 and start me on a new facial package. Nothing is set in stone and in the drop of a hat, i can call and cancel, but here's the thing: i still have the facial hair shadow. After the previous session however, there is a part of the stubble that's been... erased... so to speak. It's barely noticeable though.

It takes a lot more than 6 laser treatments to remove all the facial hair.  I have very pale skin and jet black hair - a perfect candidate for laser.  Yet even after 6 treatments, I still had facial hair shadow.  I needed 5 more sessions to get rid of the gray shadow underneath my skin.  And it's not all gone yet.  There are still some stragglers, so I will go back for more.

It's normal to start with 6-treatment laser packages, but it's just a starter package.  You need more.

The real key to any of this is that you have to try and find what will work for you best. For me a combination of Laser and Electroysis is working for me...However as you can see some don't have as good a result. I think there are other factors such as the skill of the technician, then I was also told about how some places can permanently kill hairs when using laser but choose to use a lower setting to ensure the client keeps coming back. I got the impression it was a "trick of the trade" and also used by some who do electrolysis...this is all hearsay but I don't know how you would even be able to work it out although I did notice a huge difference in the laser results going from a large corporate company to a smaller 5 person operation. The techniques were very different and the small place who charged half the price actually gives me better results.

From the extensive reading the tendency seems to be for people to try and pluck dead laser hairs which is also very detrimental to the whole process as the follicle is not killed because the hair is taken rather letting it fall out, the resistance only has to be minor for the follicle to damage and not die. This will also change results

Liz

Ive had pretty substantial results in obly 3 sessions but Im told Im the 'perfect laser candidate' (incredibly pale skin and dark hair. Also we can use a very high frequency due to my extremely high threshold for pain and recovery time.) I still need to have my greys and lighter hairs removed via electrolysis though.

So I have used my IPL on my face 2 weeks, need to do it A third time. So the IPL ideally will heat the root/bulb of the hair and hopefully kill it as a laser should. After using it I have tried tweezing a few hairs. Every one I pull on now has a blackened base. But they still take a bit to pull the base out of the pore.
So this week I tried a few again. The hairs still pull hard but after shaving they are all shorter. It seems like they are very slowly being pushed out of the pore naturally. I guess my question is, with laser how long does it take to shed the hair remnants after treatment? Seems with the IPL it takes a good while. I really had hoped it would be easier to remove the dead hairs since it would make using the IPL way less painful if those dead dark colored hairs weren't in the skin anymore.

Quote from: josie76 on December 07, 2016, 05:23:02 AM
So I have used my IPL on my face 2 weeks, need to do it A third time. So the IPL ideally will heat the root/bulb of the hair and hopefully kill it as a laser should. After using it I have tried tweezing a few hairs. Every one I pull on now has a blackened base. But they still take a bit to pull the base out of the pore.
So this week I tried a few again. The hairs still pull hard but after shaving they are all shorter. It seems like they are very slowly being pushed out of the pore naturally. I guess my question is, with laser how long does it take to shed the hair remnants after treatment? Seems with the IPL it takes a good while. I really had hoped it would be easier to remove the dead hairs since it would make using the IPL way less painful if those dead dark colored hairs weren't in the skin anymore.

This is kind of expected. IPL is really the "weakest" of the options since the light pulse only has so much (little) power. A focused laser has a lot more power. For both the common way is to burn the hair follicle. I have been working with IPL too. It is easy and does not hurt much and it at least gives me an affordable head start. Used on my face for 6 times so far and I do notice a lot less hair, so it does somewhat work. Worked great on my hands.
In the end the device had the same cost than 2 professional sessions and based on how things are going, I would say I will save at least 10 professional sessions. However it is not perfect and I still have to deal with "grey / white" hair...

Alright, you guys.

I thought I'd take a couple of selfies so you guys can get a visual of what's going on with my face. Unfortunately the camera on my phone doesn't take the clearest of pictures so i did have to adjust the lighting a little bit after importing them into my laptop. But here you guys can see the 5:00 shadow i'm so eager to get rid of.

I wish i had taken these shots before January 2016, when i had my very first laser appointment but i plan to take more of these shots as i have more and more laser and electro sessions so i can see for myself if the stubble is actually fading or not.







Even though i'm feeling like the laser sessions will eliminate the five o'clock shadow, at this point, i'm feeling like i want to return to the electrolysis place... and have hour-long sessions, even as an hour-long session at the electro place costs $90+. At the laser place, a six-session facial package is $300. I'm not too concerned with price. I'm debating with myself whether to work on having the hair permanently removed or to keep going to the laser place.

I'm beginning to have mixed feelings because i don't know if the laser technician i'm seeing wants me to order another package because she legitimtely wants to help get rid of the hair or if she just wants to collect my money. To cancel January 3 or keep that appointment is the million dollar question. 

Quote from: Angela Drakken on December 07, 2016, 04:41:05 AM
Ive had pretty substantial results in obly 3 sessions but Im told Im the 'perfect laser candidate' (incredibly pale skin and dark hair. Also we can use a very high frequency due to my extremely high threshold for pain and recovery time.) I still need to have my greys and lighter hairs removed via electrolysis though.

I also had substantial results in 3 sessions.  It seemed like my facial hair was all gone!  But it ALL came back.  Due to the hair growth cycle (as described in a previous post on this thread), it just isn't possible to remove all your facial hair in just 3 or even 6 sessions.  It's scientifically impossible.

Quote from: Annaiyah on December 07, 2016, 08:50:58 AM
I thought I'd take a couple of selfies so you guys can get a visual of what's going on with my face.

Thank you for sharing your photos Annaiyah.  I'm sorry to say, but since your skin tone is dark, laser won't work for you.  For black people, laser hair removal is basically a waste of money.  It's because of the way it works: the energy from the laser is absorbed by the hair.  If you have dark skin, your skin absorbs the energy instead of the hair, so it doesn't work.  The opposite is true for people with light, blonde, or gray hair.  Those hairs won't absorb the energy from the laser.  Laser really only works for people with light skin and dark hair.

I feel like your laser technician is not being honest with you.  They should have told you from the start that laser hair removal would be ineffective for you due to your skin tone.  One of the TG support groups I go to is lead by a black woman.  She told me that she tried laser too, and admitted that it was a waste of time and money.

Sarah I guess what I meant was before IPL hairs have that white root on them. Using it has turned that black. They seem to have separated from any growth point but they only very slowly seem to work up to the surface to shed.
My IPL gives me a sunburn feeling for a day or so where I used it on my facial hair. There's so many hairs I think I am actually getting a sunder all skin burn from it. On my forearms, legs, or chest that doesn't happen. Just a quick hot spot when I press the button. I have a Remington and use the full level 5 setting on it. So far my only complaint is the bulbs get hot and burn out pretty regular.

Quote from: EmilyMK03 on December 07, 2016, 09:36:34 AMThank you for sharing your photos Annaiyah.  I'm sorry to say, but since your skin tone is dark, laser won't work for you.  For black people, laser hair removal is basically a waste of money.  It's because of the way it works: the energy from the laser is absorbed by the hair.  If you have dark skin, your skin absorbs the energy instead of the hair, so it doesn't work.  The opposite is true for people with light, blonde, or gray hair.  Those hairs won't absorb the energy from the laser.  Laser really only works for people with light skin and dark hair.

I feel like your laser technician is not being honest with you.  They should have told you from the start that laser hair removal would be ineffective for you due to your skin tone.  One of the TG support groups I go to is lead by a black woman.  She told me that she tried laser too, and admitted that it was a waste of time and money.

Emily, thank you for your input. Yeah, that's really unfortunate. I mean... $300... wasted! Well... actually $160 of my personal money wasted. The other $120 to cover the last two sessions was paid as a gift. But don't even get me started on the fare money that it takes me to get up there and back that i didn't include! 

I don't know about anywhere else but at one point i did have my belly line, armpits, and breasts treated as well... by a different technician who works at the same business, who unfortunately doesn't seem to be there anymore, but anyway, the hair on the area below my belly button don't seem to be growing back. Every time i check for hair there seems to be none. There is still hair on my breasts but it's very fine and only noticeable up close and is much finer than before i had that area treated. My armpit hair is still a little persistent.

Having said all that, if i ever go back to this location, it'll probably just be to have my legs done. At this point, i'm looking at going to the electrolysis place for the sake of having the facial hair permanently removed. But as much as i do want my facial hair permanently removed, i really want my stubble gone.

If all else fails i'll turn to skin bleaching but i'm afraid to go there so i'm only going that route as a last resort.

That is a real shame you will likely get mixed results.

Personally I would find a good Electrolysis clinic and stick with that. I would think that your laser technician should have told you how the laser works and why your results may not be anywhere near what you expected.

Also a general note about laser treatment many who use IPL claim to be doing laser treatment(which technically they are). Yes they are but it is nothing like say the Elux810 professional laser (80K to buy) which is designed to remove hair and under ideal conditions it does it very well. IPL is the weakest form of laser you could use and is usually what type are sold to home users as "In home laser therapy" When I have my laser you can physical see any hair I missed shaving shrivelled up, you can see the hairs the laser has killed very easily and after about a week the dead ones begin to push out of the skin just like they were growing...within 14 Days they should be all but finished.

Good Luck

Liz

Thanks Elizabeth, that's what I was wondering about. I'd say my facial hair is taking longer than 14 days to exit the skin. Seems like most of them may be 1/3 of the way at 2 weeks.

No doubt there is a big energy difference between home and professional machines. I looked up the laser you mentioned. It can go up to 120 Juels per cm while a home IPL goes up to 8 Juels per cm.

Well anyway my home IPL seems to be working. I'm just trying to figure out what to really expect from it. If I can see more facial hair falling out I'll be satisfied with the purchase price of it.

I spoke to my Laser technician about this and she says we used to use it all the time and got great results...She told me things took a bit longer but I think with IPL the conditions have to be pretty good to get anywhere near a satisfactory result for facial hair in an acceptable time frame. With the right skin tone and hair color you can have brilliant results as many will attest to but if the clinic is not realistic with the client then is it any wonder people get annoyed when they don't get the result.

As to when the hair will purge itself..it can go on up till 3-4 weeks. I was rubbing at a spot on my cheek in the mirror and there happened to be a dark hair sitting in the middle of the area I was rubbing. It popped up and out after a few seconds of me brushing my finger over it. Dead hear feel different...anyway hope you get some good results

Liz

Just saw your pics. I dont believe that laser can be effective for you. Kust like others have said its ineffective on white, blonde, red  hairs and also ineffective on dark skin. You should just do electrolysis, laser would be throwing money away.