Quote from: Denise on December 08, 2016, 09:06:12 AM
Staci, for me I've always "known" I was being fake but in a few cases/instants it was a total sub conscience realization.  Every fiber in my body screamed at once "Being a woman is right, being a man is wrong."  I don't know how to explain it other than it was a feeling that washed over me right down to the core like a warm blanket.  It was the strangest sensation I'd felt ever.
- Dee

Dee, makes total sense....I completely understand what you mean.

Staci

gender dysphoria is simply in regards to aspects of gender, its anything about yourself that you see as being from opposite gender (male characteristics if your a transwoman and vs versa for transmen) which causes you to hate that thing about yourself and your body, it becomes disturbing to you and it works its way into how you see yourself,  one gets emotional and psychological relief when these things are corrected or less pronounced with HRT or by surgery!
If there are other aspects that you dislike about your self that are not related to seeing characteristics of the opposite gender, then this would be more like as being body image ie Im too fat , im too tall ect..


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Quote from: Yuusui on December 01, 2016, 07:53:26 AM
It has come up several times, mostly while talking to women, that they are frequently unhappy with there body too. How do you describe the difference between gender dysphoria and generally not being happy with your body. I am failing to come up with good talking points on this to help people understand.

Well to me they're both pretty distinct issues but since they both relate to body image there is a little overlap. The main difference however is, dysphoria is dislike of your body because it isnt female/male enough and being unhappy with your body doesn't have any gender related dislike just general dislike of some feature.

For example, I don't like how masculine my shoulders and arms are because they look like a guy's and that makes me umcomfortable and less girly showing them.

My older sister on the other hand doesn't like that her butt isn't as big as she wants it to be and wishes it were bigger.

I thought about this question a lot when I was on my way to identifying as trans*. These examples are how I tell the difference, so I'm using all "I" statements, but this can be generally applicable to anyone.

General dislike: I feel connected to my body, but I hate my body. (i.e: I look in the mirror and hate that I've gain/lost weight. I lament this fact, but still feel that my body is unfortunately my own)

Dysphoria: You feel disconnected from your body, yet you may like or dislike your body. (i.e: I look in the mirror and appreciate my body on some days, but feel like I'm checking out a stranger in my reflection. to further explain, if I saw someone on the street with my shape and parts, I'd think they're hot/attractive/nice looking. However, this body is not for me, and yes, thinking about that makes me quite sad.)

General Dislike AND Dysphoria: You feel disconnected from your body and you think your shell is unappealing IN GENERAL. (i.e: i hate what I see in the mirror because I find it unappealing, and I feel disconnected from what I see, which typically compounds my level of hatred)

Sidenote -- I do not believe dysphoria is limited to just trans* people. What makes gender dysphoria different from other forms is that the thought of "My body is not my own" is compounded with the sincere need and belief to present as the opposing gender, which, when practiced, relieves the pain of dysphoria.

Being an FTM raised by women and attempting to pass as one for many years, the difference comes down to hating my body because it is perceived as female vs hating parts for not being good enough. I have experienced both: hating my breasts and genitals because they were not the kind I though I should have vs hating my fat stomach because it isn't atractive or healthy.

Sent from my SM-G870W using Tapatalk

when you think about the opposite of gender dysphoria which is "gender congruence" (agreement, compatibility, harmony) within your gender , it helps to get a clearer definition! btw dysphoria can be about different issues being " a state of mental discomfort or suffering" gender dysphoria is only in regards to gender!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Hi Bluepaint,

Isn't it amazing how much our perspectives align as a community...

Quote from: Sno on December 06, 2016, 04:52:04 PM
..because inside we feel our bodies and expressions are wrong, a no-match, antisocietal misfit.
.. a desire to be comfortable, not acutely aware, a desire to be in the flow, not on the bank watching
... is a cause shown, alluded, pointed out by others, when the response is instinctively divergent to the standard programmed condition

My feelings are that the differentiation between dysphoria and dismorphia is one of perspective, one is from the inside, out (we can't change our expression and communication so we need to change our bodies to match them), versus the outside in of dismorphia, (too skinny, too tall, too short, too... ) .


Rowan

I don't find it a difficult thing to comprehend or explain when I look at it like this -

if any cis man or cis woman you know was forced to wake up tomorrow with the wrong genitals and body parts, and be treated the opposite gender, what kind of psychological impact would it have on them and what amount of impact.

I'm pretty confident in thinking a vast majority are not going to be "ok" with the new body they didn't ask for, and the new social role they are probably not comfortable in. I imagine many would need some heavy-duty psychological help to cope with it, if they could cope at all.

From my perspective this is precisely how dysphoria and being trans in general feels.

TKGW I'd say you are right when you put it that way. Perhaps that is the best way to express it to a cis person I think I have ever seen.

I wrote a really long answer (mostly for myself) to a question on quora from a cis male wanting to know what trans people experience. This was my final thought on that post. I felt it might make sense to cis men especially.


"For non trans people I think the best way I could describe being trans mentally is that every day you wake up and your brain is wired to expect a body you do not have. Imagine a set of wires that have no place to connect to so are shorted together. It can be like having a constant mental pain. Pain without the physical sensation of it. Perhaps that's the most accurate comparison."

its been an interesting thread! You can see that in so many ways we share much in how we feel and yet there are some very personal and distinct ways of seeing this as well! We are very much alike yet very different and this is great! I love hearing what my trans family thinks and feels! [emoji177]JulieC.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Thanks for all of the replies! It has giving me many ideas for future conversations. Keep it going!

I had this discussion with my sister-in-law several weeks back. 

She had said something about it being really hard to get her head around, and there was an awkward pause.  I moved over and sat down next to her, looked straight into her eyes, and with a very serious expression said, "Look, I'm pretty uncomfortable with this.  It's not you, just the way you look.  I'd feel better talking about this with you if you could just do a couple of things for me from now on.  I'd like you to dress in plain clothing, maybe a man's plaid shirt and jeans.  Stop using makeup, and cut your hair nice and short.  Maybe do something about your chest.  Talk in a deeper voice.  Maybe start doing guy stuff.  If you could just do that every day from now on I'd appreciate it."

She was sort of taken aback at first, then figured out what I was doing.  I told her to recall that first moment of discomfort she felt when I said this, and imagine it being there 24 hours a day for the rest of her life.  That's part of gender dysphoria.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Quote from: Yuusui on December 01, 2016, 07:53:26 AM
How do you describe the difference between gender dysphoria and generally not being happy with your body.

I tend to see it quite simply.

I don't hate my body. I hate that it's mine.

I fully appreciate that this is an incredibly hard thing for people not suffering with dysphoria to understand. It's a fundamental difference in perception, and one not easily explained.

The closest approximation I can give is this: Suppose you were wearing a pair of shoes that were two sizes too small. Changing those shoes to be the most expensive, most fashionable, most utterly gorgeous, envy-inspiring, jaw dropping shoes in the world would do no good if they were still two sizes too small, hurt your feet, and you couldn't walk properly in them.

You don't need shoes that look better, you need shoes that fit better.

I actually don't hate my body. In many ways I quite like it, especially since I lost a lot of weight. I have nice legs, and even without breasts look pretty cute... I think so anyway  lol And not bad for 59 years old.

What I dislike is my face. Well parts of it... like my nose, and my long upper lip, and lack of lips in general. Although I can look pretty good with makeup on (as in my avatar), but I'm not in anyway passible, except in a dark club or something. Plus I have a fairly coarse beard that needs to be removed.

So all my dysphoria is centered on my face.