This is a transsexual thing, but the way the boards are set up, being genderqueer it's not exactly MtF or FtM.
I've started making some email enquiries about genital reassignment surgery for genderqueer people. I still have a few other minor bits and pieces to do, but this would be my last big surgery for transition before I'm "done." For the others, it hasn't mattered that I'm genderqueer and don't identify as male/female, just that I had the psych evaluations and was found to be well informed, of sound mind and understood what I was doing.
But this surgeon uses some uncomfortable phrases, such as "real life experience," and how long I have been "full time" and so on. I have been in active transition for four years now, and have had some pretty "full time" alternations made to my body - but what they're obviously getting at is "full time as a WOMAN OR MAN." I don't do that. I live full time as a genderqueer.
My version of GRS will also be queer - I have no interest in tailoring my results to look cis. My genitals "passing" for cis would actually be undesirable for me.
I've done some research and come to a pretty good middle ground, but I'm unsure of how acceptable that's going to be if the binary is pushed here. I don't want to have to pretend to be binary gendered just to get what I need done.
The most likely place to have this done is in Thailand, but I seem not to be able to find much info on what results are like there. Everywhere else that offers if is going to be too expensive when travel costs, accommodations, and currency conversions are taken into account. Plus I cut costs not needing the whole thing done.
Anyone else who is genderqueer had GRS? Was the binary pushed for you? Did you go for a middle ground option, or a binary result? Why?
Also anyone know where I can find reliable info on the standards in Thailand for reassignment surgery, or anyone who has had surgery there and had an opinion?

You can get around the RLE in Thailand, but Suporn for one won't do non-standard SRS. I've no idea about the others.

I suspect it would be difficult to locate a doctor that would preform a non binary surgery. The problem is the current surgeries have been refined over time - some based on surgeries performed 50 years ago. A new surgery would be entirely experimental and it may not be possible to guarantee the results. Any surgeon doing a non binary surgery would have a very low surgery count on that procedure compared to a standard surgery count in the hundreds for the lessor experienced surgeons. Skilled surgeons may run into the thousands of surgeries. I would advise very careful surgeon evaluation before selecting your surgeon for the best possible results.

Frightening thread in a way.

I dont have any info on it.  The surgeries i am aware of have been binary.

Even for nbs.

I know of no nonbinary surgeries among those i know.

Good luck, hope some good info comes out of this for you.

@ satinjoy - why frightening?
@ Dena - you'd be surprised. I've done some researching and correspondence with the hospital offering it and found a wonderfully genderqueer option which is one of the "stages" of full genital surgery that they have to start off with anyway. One just simply decides not to go through with all the stages and stays middle ground. My concern was  raised with the language, and whether it indicates they're going to insist I identify as a binary gender in order to go ahead with surgery. I don't want to be dishonest and say I identify as man or woman, because that isn't so, plus I don't believe genderqueers should have to play this game and tell people what they want to hear/will accept to be allowed to transition (eg gatekeeping).
And yeah, I needed some more feedback on whether getting surgery in Thailand is going to end up one of those horror stories you hear about people getting lopsided boobs and so on because they went abroad for surgery to avoid costs. Because honestly, a surgeon is taking a scalpel to your genitals quite literally here, it's nothing to be flippant about. Also urology is involved which is a notoriously problem-fraught area even without being transsexual thrown in. More info needed, but I can't find any reviews at all.
Just putting it out there. I'd love some more info on this, and whether anyone who is genderqueer ever even goes in for genital surgery, let alone genderqueer/nonbinary surgery.

I don't know what you mean by a non-binary GRS, but the variations I've heard of include orchiectomy, penectomy, cosmetic (no depth), and colon-vaginolplasty, penile-inversion (the usual) and non-penile inversion (Suporn in particular). Can't think of anything else right now, but if there is I'm curious (just curious, its not my thing).

You can definitely get GRS in Thailand without identifying binary just as long as you have a letter from a psych. If you're having difficulty there's probably a few ways of getting one of those as well. Some time back I spent a lot of time looking into this as I was considering getting GRS without socially transitioning.

Thailand has some great surgeons and its where I'd go personally, and its not to save money. Here's a couple

My wonderful surgeries SRS, BA and FFS at PAI Bangkok

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=204651.0

This one's Suporn so you can see he's good, but as I mentioned he won't do any variations.

https://www.the-ress.net/files/SRS-With-Dr-Suporn-2015.pdf

I become grightened as soon as any healthcare professional becomes the decision maker as to what I can and cannot do with my body.

It kicks up some fear stuff for me.  Especially when rle is brought up since I live as a fluid androgyne in multiple presentations IRL accross the spectrum in daily living.

I'll be following this thread with dome interest here.  I dont particularly like the idea of full grs for myself either.

Having lost everything by doing a binary work transition in FL and then coming to NY stealth as a male to get work in construction, any references to forced binary presentations to get surgury results in the fear whiplash.

Great thread.  I dont want to hijack it and i want to know more about partial grs.  This is fascinating.

@ AnnoyMs - yep, that's who I've been emailing with - http://pai.co.th/category/gender-reassignment/
So thanks heaps for that review, that should be really helpful. It is just a bit iffy as I've never been to Thailand before, and my needs are a bit unusual. I wanted to make sure they were ok to go with and that I could achieve the results I'm after there, and there were no horror stories of people being disfigured or having to go through years of urology problems due to surgery.
I was aware however that Thailand have been champions for gender reassignment for decades now, and thus have more practice and are more comfortable with these types of surgeries than many western surgeons. They also price reasonably which is more than I can say for some other places, charging into 60K for GRS, especially if there are complications. Associated costs like accommodations and so on would also be lower in Thailand which is encouraging.
Keep in mind that all the examples you've listed there are trans feminine. While some of my transition has been MtF along the way, there is also a fair bit of FtM transition for me. Being genderqueer in my way means I really have to undertake two transitions at once a bit.
@ satinjoy - I hear you on the gatekeepers. I tend to get into fighting them a bit, getting around things, until they can't dictate what I can and cannot do to my own body.

I'm non-binary mostly in that passing isn't really a plan - I'd love to pass as female and I plan on a normal GRS. That said all of the people I've worked with are fine with my plan, I had to do some work but nothing onerous and my therapists were working toward ensuring everything would clear with the insurance co.

I asked my surgeon about keeping a testicle surgically inserted in the event I wanted an endogenous source of testosterone but that was before I'd decided that I *never" want to be influenced by T again. In any case he rejected the idea, saying even though I'd known people who'd done this in the past he felt it was a bad idea and he gave reasons I couldn't argue with.

Anyhow up to the point that you want a non standard procedure I think you're ok. How that will fly, you'll have to work out, most surgeons want to stick to a well proven game plan and mine is more open to my input than others if known (mostly professionally).

CV, I don't think there's anything to worry about on quality and safety at PAI. If you review Warlockmaker's posts (and not just the one in that thread), and see exactly why she chose them it should reassure you. I'd not normally put too much weight on a single person's opinion, but I do in this case. It still bothers me that there's so few other reports about them, but I'm quite confident they are good.

Read this one as well, but there's plenty more. You can see they are more flexible on requirements than other places.

Wonderful transition without any RLE
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=209027.0

Regarding Thailand in general it doesn't mean too much. There's appalling surgeons in Thailand as well as world leaders, and a corresponding huge price range for SRS (maybe 7 to 1). When you hear how good or bad "Thailand" is you need to find out who the surgeon was.

To add to the chorus, like Sadie I sought SRS which would let me keep my testicles in the inguinal canal, but give a binary mtf result externally (I've heard of this being done for a binary mtf patient before by Meltzer).  I got a big 'NO' (or ominous silence) from every surgeon I contacted.  It's super super frustrating - especially when I'm straight up told "No, because then you won't be a true female".  Well, duh!  That's the point!!

In the end I said 'stuff it, I never liked testosterone anyway!' and decided to live without them.  But why should we let surgeons dictate what bodies we're allowed to have?

Anyway, T-minus 10 months to bottom surgery for me.  Maybe they'll let me keep them in a jar to take home instead?

Quote from: CV on December 13, 2016, 07:19:46 PM
@ AnnoyMs - yep, that's who I've been emailing with - http://pai.co.th/category/gender-reassignment/
I wanted to make sure they were ok to go with and that I could achieve the results I'm after there, and there were no horror stories of people being disfigured or having to go through years of urology problems due to surgery.

While it seems unlikely there's not many reports from people who've had SRS with PAI so you can't really draw that conclusion. However Dr Preecha has published a paper "Male-to-female vaginoplasty: Preecha's surgical technique" with info on the complications rate (but its only for 400 surgeries).

People have had reports of problems from other surgeons, so its always possible. If you do manage to get something non-standard I think you'll increase your risk of problems as they won't have any experience with it.