It's early days for me during transition but I have attempted to stay guarded on feeling particularly good about any of it. Mostly because given my appearance, I'm not entirely convinced I'll make a particularly masculine man, nor should I take the best photos (or those good enough people are wiling to take and show online) as proof that everyone's transition turns out a huge success and everyone will successfully get through it.

As strict as I have been about that I realized earlier today that some expectation have crept in and I have been feeling as though some things are a given. And I also realized what I'd been seeing around here and other places seemed on the whole very positive and hopeful and so on. I can't help feeling like there must be another side to the story than that.

So my question is, has anyone here found transition a failure, or aspects of it in which they have found failure and/or disappointment, and what they have decided to do about it?

I'm asking because I would like a balanced view of the process from those who have gone through it and I sense a little more optimism on the subject from my doctors and acquaintances than corresponds with the usual pattern of my everyday experiences. I wonder if a lot of stories about disappointment are missing or something because I can hardly imagine everyone who goes through transition doesn't have their downs as well as their ups. There are so many resources out there dripping with optimism and YouTube videos avoiding this question I have to ask it.

So if anyone wants to share, please do. I'd like to know what parts of the process didn't meet expectations, brutal honesty, etc.

I feel there needs to be a counterpoint to all the talking up about it out there... just feels wrong not to have a view from all sides.

Perhaps you dont hear a lot of failure stories because, in comparison, when a lot of people transition theyre chipping away at all the inconsistencies in their life and seeing things as much better than before, because in comparison things just feel great.


I'm pretty confident in looking like myself, but for others I dont know what expectations people expect to lead, how much is viable change based on their gender and how much is aesthetic driven. Do people want to look like a man, or a certain kind of man. Are they not hairy/muscular/toned/chiseled enough, or are they not looking anything masculine-like.

For me, I had the expectation that I wouldnt be very manly buildwise, and Im okay with that. Im okay with having a feminine build or being boyish. A lot of my success has been coming to terms and acceptance with things that are me, rather than being in despair about the unchangeable.

My only failure is that regardless of bottom surgeries, it will never look or feel like the real thing...in another way that somewhat doesnt matter because strangers will not see that, only me and my partner who loves me and doesnt care.

I failed in being socially accepted. Family will never magically open up and see you as you are, regardless of how many years you felt that way or how happy and good you've felt thereafter.


So yes, maybe there's a bit of faulure, but there's some things you can accept and feel haply about. Even cis people do this. Everyone does it. Its a part of coming to terms with and loving yourself regardless of the obstacles

Overall I feel good about it. Nothing I have done up to this point has disappointed me, and I don't regret any of it. The only time I ever hear of folks being disappointed, IMO hearing their stories it seems like they were misinformed from the get go (like as far as how long things can take to happen on HRT - that's probably the biggest complaint I hear anywhere) or possibly should have waited longer to transition. Or not transition at all.

Quote from: WolfNightV4X1 on December 15, 2016, 03:46:10 PM
My only failure is that regardless of bottom surgeries, it will never look or feel like the real thing...in another way that somewhat doesnt matter because strangers will not see that, only me and my partner who loves me and doesnt care.

How much research have you done into bottom surgery? This is pretty contrary to the experiences of the majority of post-op guys out there today.

When I was a guy, and by that I mean when I was doing my best guy interpretation, I did it very well. Six foot tall, 220 pounds, solid muscle, deep male voice. I had all the physical attributes down. I played the part, and I played it well. I played the alpha male and played it well. It was an act of course, but my body and mannerisms allowed me to pull it off with zero issues. I was generally the toughest, baddest guy in the room.
     I remember one of my dear friends, five foot tall, 120 pounds....maybe, maybe.  Really kind of a high squeaky voice when I ruminate on it. Everything about him should have been effeminate. Nothing could have been further from the truth. Married a  beautiful woman, had a couple of lovely, bright kids and made an excellent living working as a team leader for one of the biggest optical companies on the planet. Had a huge hand in the Hubble Space Mission. I and many others had a huge respect for this guy. He carried himself with masculine class, grace and style. He was always the classy guy in the room....always. If we'd have thrown a wig and dress and breast forms on him and he'd of played along, he'd just have been another woman in the room. Nobody......nobody, would have ever thought of him that way. He was always the hale and hearty fellow well met and I never met anyone that had anything negative to say about him. We all had a deep and abiding respect for him. I would personally seek his council whenever the opportunity arose. He was smart, wise and compassionate.
      What should you take form this little anecdote? What you will, I suppose. But I would like to say one thing before I depart, if you're the man you think you are, your shell has little to do with the matter. I know that because my friend proved that to me. He was one of my epiphanies for realizing my physical form didn't doom me to an existence that didn't fit my soul.  You either are or you aren't a man. The package ain't who you are.  Deal with that and then, follow your heart. The rest will most probably fall into place.... Best, Lisa

So overall I do consider my transition so far to be successful, I pass 99% of the time now with a haircut and colour that is probably more associated with girls- dyed undercut that's long and I brush to the side. I thank my decent facial hair genes for my passing.

But I will say that my voice has been a HUGE disappointment. I never expected decent facial hair, I never expected good lower growth, I never expected much of anything (though I hoped) except that my voice would drop to male range. I had never heard of a trans guy whose voice didn't drop to male range. My voice certainly dropped but it isn't passing as male without my face. Phones, drive throughs, all that, my voice doesn't pass and I get misgendered. Luckily anyone who sees my face genders me correctly though. In my case I'm able to focus on the things I did get, for example my facial hair is at a decent point now. But my voice was always what I was most dysphoric about in terms of what T could fix. It really gets to me sometimes.

I also have a friend who has barely gotten anything from T. I've been meaning to tell him to see about androgen insensitivity syndrome or something. Because he really isn't seeing anything and he started T about when I did. I don't know if that's a possibility but I think in his case something is actually wrong.

I can't help but be disappointed with my facial hair. It's hard for me to not compare myself to other guys (FTM and cis) when it comes to that.
As it stands, I have an okay(ish) mustache, some long/dark and patchy hairs under my chin and bottom lip, *very* scant sideburns and very scant hair along my jawline. I'm covered in vellus hairs that keep getting longer but not thickening/darkening.
I try to remind myself that I'm only 13 months in and then I see a guy that's 6-8 months along and has a ton of noticeable hair. It's frustrating.
Admittedly, part of that was my fault for setting my hopes so high for quick growth; it was the only thing of which I was 'certain'. Dumb, dumb.

I pass 100% of the time without it to everyone but myself. Looking in the mirror, though, it's hard for me to not see traces of 'her' without it.

Interesting thoughts from all, please keep them coming.

Does anyone who began transition feel as I do at this point, that although you know you're undergoing transition you're not quite able to believe that you are, even if you are seeing results? I've not been on T long and although I am seeing results - marked growth down there, voice is now quite hoarse-sounding and cracks because I'm simply not used to the range, and I even found a large, very dark hair on my chin this evening that I hadn't spotted ever before... the idea that these changes will fully materialize and the result look male at all seem a distant possibility?

I guess I hadn't realized till now just how hopelessly I'd been living my life...

So much so it's hard to see hope even when it's staring me in the face.


I was out walking earlier and a thought came to me that I'd not had before. Those dreams so many people have where their teeth are falling out, or their skin is peeling away, or their face is melting... most of us have had them in some form or other and they are pretty unpleasant and tend to disturb or terrify us. And it strikes me that the fear of transition not working out right is exactly the same thing - it's the fear that what makes you appear normal to the world, your public presence, your face, your identity and grasp on it... to lose the grip on that is like losing all your teeth all of a sudden, or losing all your skin. I'm not able to articulate this well but that base fear seems like the same thing to me - the prospect of being in a transitional state between one thing and another is uncomfortably similar in sensation to this idea. I just hope I don't end up looking like a monstrosity. I've not seen a picture of a transman who has, but still the instinctive "fear" is there.

Quote from: FTMax on December 15, 2016, 03:56:17 PM

How much research have you done into bottom surgery? This is pretty contrary to the experiences of the majority of post-op guys out there today.

Okay well....let me rephrase that. Bottom surgery in general isnt bad and the results are good, but initially looking into it it never seemed for me, Im not saying its not successful for other men. That said though I've only briefly looked into it so I couldve missed its potential by not looking more deeply into it.

To me initially speaking, bottom surgery seems even more unnatural than top surgery. With the chest at least its completely 100% real, there is no difference between the female and male chest besides fat or lack of fat, so removing it, despite leaving scars, makes one more male. Genitals are trickier though, it just seems more a constructed imitation rather than the real thing.

Phalloplasties are good for girth and size and imitate the look of an average male penis. Metoidioplasties use your own homologous organ and change it to be more penislike. They make it so you can urinate from both. which is awesome. Phallos need a rod to imitate hardness though,  and even though metoids can do it theres not much length so its not something you can use on a partner. Metoids seem to keep your se
nsitivity in the area of the penis, phallos just seem to press the previous genital area like a button rather than sensitivity in the external penis region (Not sure, though) Neither of them can ejaculate (I think?). Neither of them are 100% in being exactly like the real thing.

Of the two metoidioplasties sounds more natural and real to me, but I wonder if I can justify the cost. I'd more sooner get top surgery than that. I can probably live with and accept my penislike qualities as is, albeit being dissapointed it will never be a real penis as one could ever be.

Perhaps part of it is Im scared of that change in that area, Im not sure why. Everything else Ive looked forward to as soon as Ive heard, and Im excited for those changes. Maybe thats just a challenge I'd more likely face if I want to or not after I do get top surgery.



All that aside, I've thought of something else Im a bit dissapointed in. As far as being scared of change, Im worried about how I'll look with age. I dont want to age. I like being a young teenager, I cant imagine myself as much as an older man. Im worried about taking too much testosterone rather than enough to be a young man. What am I going to be like years from now and am I really going to pass as a man like that? I really just want to freeze time.

That...and I failed at having a childhood as a boy. Repressed feelings and concerns that showed in the form of rejecting female gender roles in my older age. I remember people treated me like a girl, gifting me girl gifts or having me play with other unlike minded kids. I spent so much time exaggeratting my interests and traits while implying I was a girl to prove I wasnt like other girls. I imagine how much of the roles I could have evaded and things I couldve done if I had been a little boy. That's time I wont get back no matter what

DISCLAIMER: Sorry for responding to a guy-thread   

Hmm. Perhaps it has to do with shifting expectations.

when I started out, nobody ever thought I was female. Luckily, HRT has been like a miracle drug, and I've changed rapidly. But this goes in phases, both physically and mentally.

When starting out, my wish was NOT to be seen as a man anymore, not to have his crippling social dysphoria that comes with society's wishes for male behavior. To that end, a lot of results are satisfactory. I was equally OK with being misgendered from time to time, even being a non-passable transwoman was better than being a man.

After having been on HRT for about 13,5 months now, I can say that goal has long since been fulfilled. Last May, I started to notice I had passing privilege on first sight, aka walking around and while having short conversations. So, my wishes slowly adjusted itself, from being OK with being non-passable, I started to want to be passable at second glance.

That moment came last August, when I discovered some old friends didn't recognize me at all anymore, and others who didn't know me even didn't notice after having had a two-hour conversation with me. That taught me the voice, face and general appearance were OK.

However, there was still this rather masculine waistline which, of course, can be hidden with the right attire. Together with the 24/7 passing came the go-ahead from my insurance company for SRS. This shifted my views and desires yet again, because I wanted to be passable without wearing any clothing as well! As my transition went on and my self-image changed accordingly, so did my feelings to have 'proper' vaginal intercourse with a man grow. Exponentially.

Luckily, I've been noticing my waistline is slowly decreasing in the last few months, and my hip-circumference slowly increasing. I've even hit this point a month ago, where my ass was definitely wider than my waist. Basic hourglass-figure established. However, there's still way too much masculine abdominal and visceral fat there.

Point is: what made me happy before (HRT, limited passing, full passing with clothing on) isn't enough anymore. Now, I'm starting to get an appetite for what's REALLY possible: SRS, a female shape and most of all; MEN! This also influences my dysphoria, being read as a girl just doesn't cut it anymore, since together with all of these realizations came the innate knowledge: I'm already a woman.

So now I want my entire body to reflect that truth, and I want for men to adore me just because of that female body. I'm not there yet, but it's getting closer. My dysphoria is shifting along with my preferences. Generally, my dysphoria is less, but the dysphoria about specific body-parts that I deemed "OK" is getting worse now.

- just my two cents!

Quote from: WolfNightV4X1 on December 16, 2016, 05:03:08 AM

Quote from: FTMax on December 15, 2016, 03:56:17 PM

How much research have you done into bottom surgery? This is pretty contrary to the experiences of the majority of post-op guys out there today.

Okay well....let me rephrase that. Bottom surgery in general isnt bad and the results are good, but initially looking into it it never seemed for me, Im not saying its not successful for other men. That said though I've only briefly looked into it so I couldve missed its potential by not looking more deeply into it.

To me initially speaking, bottom surgery seems even more unnatural than top surgery. With the chest at least its completely 100% real, there is no difference between the female and male chest besides fat or lack of fat, so removing it, despite leaving scars, makes one more male. Genitals are trickier though, it just seems more a constructed imitation rather than the real thing.

Phalloplasties are good for girth and size and imitate the look of an average male penis. Metoidioplasties use your own homologous organ and change it to be more penislike. They make it so you can urinate from both. which is awesome. Phallos need a rod to imitate hardness though,  and even though metoids can do it theres not much length so its not something you can use on a partner. Metoids seem to keep your se
nsitivity in the area of the penis, phallos just seem to press the previous genital area like a button rather than sensitivity in the external penis region (Not sure, though) Neither of them can ejaculate (I think?). Neither of them are 100% in being exactly like the real thing.

Of the two metoidioplasties sounds more natural and real to me, but I wonder if I can justify the cost. I'd more sooner get top surgery than that. I can probably live with and accept my penislike qualities as is, albeit being dissapointed it will never be a real penis as one could ever be.

Perhaps part of it is Im scared of that change in that area, Im not sure why. Everything else Ive looked forward to as soon as Ive heard, and Im excited for those changes. Maybe thats just a challenge I'd more likely face if I want to or not after I do get top surgery.

Most phallos done today regain full sensation through microsurgery, though some utilize donor sites that don't allow for microsurgery to be performed immediately and are limited in that regard. Some people are able to produce ejaculate with either procedure depending on whether or not certain glands are left intact, not sperm though. Many guys can use their post-meta penis on a partner. There are other methods you could use to get hard enough with phallo to penetrate, though most guys seem to like the rods and inflatables.

The main point is - with either method - it's a penis and it functions in much the same way as a cis guy's penis would. There's nothing imitated about it. A strap-on or packer is an imitation. A penis that is the result of phalloplasty or metoidioplasty is not.

I'm not saying bottom surgery is right for everyone, but in general there is a lot of dismissive or negative talk from guys who are pre-op and who have not done the due diligence of research that would enable them to speak on the subject authoritatively. Some of that is people being scared off by the expense and trying to justify not spending the money because it's "not good enough". Some of it is people looking only at decades old information. But the fact is that I've yet to see somebody who is completely dissatisfied at the end of their bottom surgery process, and I think more guys would consider it an option to relieve their dysphoria if they had accurate, up to date information  instead of partial truths or outdated facts from folks who frankly don't know enough to responsibly comment on it.

Sorry OP for momentary derail.

Ah understood,sorry to come off as ignorant and dismissive, I hadnt meant to call bottom surgeries an imitation as if it werent the real thing for many guys based on structure and function. But that does inform me quite a bit, thanks!

I was extremely disappointed when I first started T. My bodyweight shifted and I got extremely bloated in my face. I just looked horrible and was so upset seeing how other guys looked. Now, I have lost a lot of weight and my face has slimmed out into a more masculine form. The only thing i'm a bit sad about is my chest. I had top surgery about a year ago and I feel like I can't build my chest up at all.. so I look flat like a teenage boy. Overall though i'm pretty please so far with everything else and my facial hair took a lot of time. My hair is very patchy but I've been trying different beard oils which seem to help.

Your mood might be a roller coaster for a bit but you just have to fight thru it. When you start noticing more results you'll be happy and maybe even be quite surprised at your transformation . Also do your best to avoid looking at other trans guys because it can be, at times, extremely discouraging. I know it was for me because I always had a low self esteem.

I've only been on T 9 months so I feel like it's too early to really answer your question but I will say that I am not disappointed by T because my mental health has improved so profoundly on it. My changes have come slowly but that's not my #1 reason for taking T. Unlike some guys I don't anticipate ever stopping T and I'm starting to seriously consider removing my ovaries to stop the last vestiges of hormonal depression.

We're all different so your personal journey doesn't have to look like mine. Yeah, there are some guys after a year or two on T who are very frustrated. You should be seeing some changes though, albeit slowly, and if not something is wrong with your dose or you could have AIS and you need to find that out. I used to wish I had AIS but now I'm very glad I don't!

Quote from: AnxietyDisord3r on December 18, 2016, 06:18:49 AM
Unlike some guys I don't anticipate ever stopping T and I'm starting to seriously consider removing my ovaries to stop the last vestiges of hormonal depression.

I may be wrong so correct me if I am, but I'd been told that once an average male dose of T in the body becomes routine, the ovaries stop producing. The same happens if you have ovaries and take sufficient estrogen for a female - the ovaries are told by the brain to quit producing so much because there is already enough. This was what happened after I quit a long-term birth control pill regimen - it took 8 months + for my ovaries to begin producing anything after quitting because they'd essentially shut down while E was being provided from elsewhere. Granted I over-took the pills so much the ovaries became defunct in their production, but the same is probably going to occur with T? You are taking more than enough sex hormone for the body, it's likely your brain/ovaries will eventually adapt to it and stop acting like ovaries.

Like you though I noticed a huge improvement in mood and reduction in anxiety (after something like 2 days). There's no way I'd want to stop taking it for that reason alone, never mind any other benefits it might end up giving.

My biggest 'disappointment' is lack of facial hair.  It has been years and no sideburns and very little mustache hairs, neck fur is all there though.

My real biggest disappointment is not starting so many  years earlier.

Interesting thread here. I was immediately read as male upon starting T. The only thing I'd like to change is amount of facial hair. I want more. Especially my stache and you can see the topic I started on that. I get caught up in comparing myself to cis guys but I work with college students and so many of them can't get good facial hair. I had a co-worker that could only get a good 5 o'clock shadow. And another that could only manage a thin, wispy beard. Both cis. So I'm not really hung up on that anymore at all.

I've worked to get my body muscular and to have that masculine upside down V look. But I have a bad knee and I can't work my lower body as well so I'm disappointed in the shape of my legs. I think they look feminine still compared to my upper body but it's probably just good old fashioned chicken legs from skipping leg days lol. Sometimes I have to stop myself and realize that I am seeing masculinity through the eyes of someone that has had to go through a lot to be a man. So would a cis guy be insecure about his legs in my situation? Yes, but he wouldn't think they are "girly". So it's just negative self talk.

You know what would be disappointing? Never having pulled the trigger on taking T.

As far as the mini discussion on Phalloplasty: I really think trans guys that unfortunately cannot have surgery because they can't afford it or insurance doesn't cover it or have physical issues that prohibit it or are scared to go through with it, tend to have a pessimistic view of it. To mentally deal with not being able to do it.

I wouldn't say my transition was a "failure" necessarily. There have been a significant amount of changes, many of which I'm happy with. However, I seem to have an unhealthy habit of deliberately comparing myself to other guys, especially trans guys, resulting in my feeling especially inadequate. After 2 years of T, I still have not had a whole lot of luck in the face masculinization and fat redistribution department, which has been really frustrating. I think now that a lot of the things I was dysphoric about pre-T have changed to my liking, I have a lot more focus directed towards the stuff that's left, or things I'm just insecure about in general - especially those that can't be changed.

One negative effect of T I have noticed though is that I've sort of had to rebuild my social life, in a way. For one, my anxiety skyrocketed once I started being stealth. Albeit, it's been gradually improving and I'm a lot better now, but there was a period of time where I felt out of place, like I couldn't connect with guys or girls. Cis guys especially were difficult to talk to, as I would constantly feel like I didn't fit in and they could tell. I think a lot of it stemmed from an irrational fear of people clocking me. I also have noticed a significant decrease in empathy. Before T, I could cry at anything. In fact, I would say I was more emotional than average. Now, I struggle to connect emotionally, and when people try to share their feelings with me I just get uncomfortable and don't know how to respond. That could easily be attributed to depression as well, but it is a common side effect of testosterone. I also have tremendous anxiety about being in a (romantic) relationship, but that's a whole nother can of worms I don't feel the need to open right now.

Now, I still struggle with knowing the fact that I'll never be a cis guy, and no matter how many surgeries I have my past will always be there. However, things like top surgery, working out, and the continual changes of T have helped to an extent. I hope to continue to improve my self-esteem and social skills, but I do think hormones and the whole trans experience is often romanticized. I think the hardest part is just having patience.

I am over 5 years on T and I have had 3 operations to date. When I used to dream years ago about what it would be like to get to this point, I used to imagine it would be an amazing place and honestly it is. I pass consistently, I cannot remember the last time I didn't pass. I got a thirst for life agajn, went back to college and then to uni. Am i disappointed in some areas? Yes. Dating is difficult, it has been my experience that the most success I have had is with people who have fancied me for a while and really got to know me before finding out I'm trans. I have managed to date 1 person in the last 5 years and it lasted maybe...3-4 months. Online dating hasn't done anything for me, I've gained a lot of 'likes' but then they visit my profile which says I am trans and I never hear a thing from them. This for me has been the hardest thing to deal with, I have never experienced a serious relationship and I am consistently the only single person in my group of friends. (However this is just my experience, a trans friend of mine who is also FTM met his cis girlfriend online a year after starting his transition and nearly 4 years on they're still together).

My other disappointment is the realisation that I will always have trouble fitting into certain clothes. Long sleeved shirts are a nightmare, the smallest size is usually a 15 inch neck, mine is 13 1\2. I can find more casual ones that fit my shoulders and chest perfectly, but won't fit around my hips. I also cannot find shirts that will fit my arms, they're just too long. The shortest jeans are a 30 inch inside leg. My legs are 28 inches. My waist is 30 inches. Nowhere does 30" 28" jeans, the closest I can get is 30" 30". For trousers I have no choice but to ask someone to see them so they're shorter for me.

Finally, scars. There was a moment a year ago when I got quite down because I felt like I was starting to look like something from Frankenstein. Unfortunately my scars from the operations I have had so fsr, have never really faded, thankfully however when considering phalloplasty options I chose to go with the abdominal option and so with clothes on, I have no visible scaring.

Anyways despite all that, what I have gained from transitioning far exceeds those disappointments. That's not to say they don't get to me (currently, I'm having a massive self esteem and loneliness problem due to the dating situation) but Ive never regretted my decision and I'd do it all over again. Life is worth living now, that far exceeds the issues transitioning has brought me.

Quote from: Jam on December 26, 2016, 05:33:11 PM
Anyways despite all that, what I have gained from transitioning far exceeds those disappointments. That's not to say they don't get to me (currently, I'm having a massive self esteem and loneliness problem due to the dating situation) but Ive never regretted my decision and I'd do it all over again. Life is worth living now, that far exceeds the issues transitioning has brought me.

Yes, I can relate to this so much. Dating has been a colossal disappointment. I don't know if or why I thought it would be better post transition because it is almost impossible and feeling like I'll never have a girlfriend is super depressing.

^ Yea, I've heard about the difficulty with dating and hopefully I'm prepared for that. It's not what I want, but I do know a few relationships didn't bring me contentment before so there's no reason for me to assume they will again. People are very difficult and tiring creatures, even when you love them. Sometimes you just can't please them no matter what you do, and I guess I count myself among that.

It's a shame to think I probably would have married someone if it wasn't for this TG thing, and I would have been fine with that. But it was not to be. Between that and finally shedding this "skin", I'll go with being alone for the rest of my life so long as I can be who I am. I was always alone anyway, my brain did it's developing while alone, and formed its understanding of the world while alone. So I am still - underneath - a loner.