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Re-examining m views on FFS!

Started by bluepaint, December 23, 2016, 11:36:36 AM

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bluepaint

I have recently been in a forum in regards to FFS, this and a recent story about a young lady from Toronto ( Utuber) Stef Santaji who asked for funding online for her surgeries as made me reexamine my views and values in regards to FFS. I can certainly understand why its important to appear more feminine but theres also the issue of how far to go (or one needs to go?) to feel satisfied and what message does this send in trans persons being accepted regardless of our outer shells in a society so driven by appearance and also beauty?


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DawnOday

When you can be a big butted woman and receive $25k for just attending a party because you are a big butted woman. A 5'2" inch woman with a big butt. Not my idea of beauty but for some...  I do agree probably because I am older now and well, my runway days are far behind me. Yes in my 20's I had a frame suitable for the runway. For Lane Bryant, running between 140 - 160 lbs. But the impossible standard of beauty is not realized as the lottery it is. Being accepted for my humanity, empathy, sympathy is what I want to be recognized for. Not that I have somehow stuffed my size 14 male foot into a size 13 female shoe. Or I've found comparable women's clothing to fit my 6'3" 220 lb frame. Now for someone like Archlord who is 5' 7" and 185 lbs you can see the stunning results of the surgeries from beginning to end and she will never have trouble passing and she is still questioning. , But me? No way Jose. But everyone deserves acceptance whatever they decide.
Dawn Oday

It just feels right   :icon_hug: :icon_hug: :icon_kiss: :icon_kiss: :icon_kiss:

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First indication I was different- 1956 kindergarten
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Dena

After coming to this site and discovering FFS, it has an appeal to me as I have a few additional feature that could probably use work. The problem is it's costly  and the surgery is brutal. My brother died as the result of a 6 hour surgery so there is a possible risk I could face the same danger with a 12 hour surgery. When you get right down to it, being passable should be the real goal and hopefully now I am on a proper HRT program, that will be enough.
Rebirth Date 1982 - PMs are welcome - Use [email]dena@susans.org[/email] or Discord if your unable to PM - Skype is available - My Transition
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Kadence1

Quote from: Dena on December 23, 2016, 02:15:58 PM
After coming to this site and discovering FFS, it has an appeal to me as I have a few additional feature that could probably use work. The problem is it's costly  and the surgery is brutal. My brother died as the result of a 6 hour surgery so there is a possible risk I could face the same danger with a 12 hour surgery. When you get right down to it, being passable should be the real goal and hopefully now I am on a proper HRT program, that will be enough.

Oh my gosh!! I'm so sorry to hear about your brother :( that's scary!!! I have major anxiety when it comes to surgery and anesthesia. I always think once I go under I'll never wake up or something even though I've been told numerous times that it's super rare :'(


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AnonyMs

I'm unclear, how have your views changed? I've been watching her video's and nothing I saw changed my views on anything. I'm all in favor of doing whatever you want for yourself and if others take some message from that, its up to them.

I quite like her video's even though its the kind of thing I'd never normally watch. The fact that I'm even watching her video's is really quite odd, so I find her quite interesting. I've a feeling she's quite smart, especially with the business side of things. Good on her.

Her FFS video's are really well done, very powerful. A step away from the lightness of everything else and I expect it will make a lasting impact on her career.

Her channel
https://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceSane/videos
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bluepaint

Quote from: AnonyMs on December 23, 2016, 02:44:40 PM
I'm unclear, how have your views changed? I've been watching her video's and nothing I saw changed my views on anything. I'm all in favor of doing whatever you want for yourself and if others take some message from that, its up to them.

I quite like her video's even though its the kind of thing I'd never normally watch. The fact that I'm even watching her video's is really quite odd, so I find her quite interesting. I've a feeling she's quite smart, especially with the business side of things. Good on her.

Her FFS video's are really well done, very powerful. A step away from the lightness of everything else and I expect it will make a lasting impact on her career.

Her channel
https://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceSane/videos
Im not attacking her putting her down in anyway, her FFS story has been trending lately and I found her quite stunning before and Im happy for her if this will help her feel better about herself but I was simply asking myself what  I was feeling about it all in regards to myself and society and asking others their opinion on how they see FFS in their lives as well!
Not all women look (in our ideals of) what is feminine, women (and men for that part) come in all shapes and sizes!
Personally, after chatting in the FFS group site, I got the impression that this (like any other cosmetic surgeries) can for some become an obsession, especially if dysphoria might colour our perceptions of ourselves? 
Theres also question of how society sees trans women and men and the norms of beauty that are imposed on women in general?
I hope that this might clarify the motives that made me post my thread? Blessings! Julie

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Dena

Quote from: Kadence1 on December 23, 2016, 02:38:21 PM
Oh my gosh!! I'm so sorry to hear about your brother :( that's scary!!! I have major anxiety when it comes to surgery and anesthesia. I always think once I go under I'll never wake up or something even though I've been told numerous times that it's super rare :'(


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What happened to my brother is his kidneys shut down and the hospital staff didn't catch on to the fact he wasn't producing urine. They continued IV feeding and two gallons latter, his heart wasn't able to handle it. Nobody will admit that's what happened but I got ahold of all the medical records and spent several days going over them putting the pieces together.

In healthy people surgical complications are rare and what happened to my brother was rare but treatable. It's one of the advantages of taking somebody with you to ask questions if something seems a little off. If you don't have somebody with you, pay attention to what is happening and ask questions if you don't know.
Rebirth Date 1982 - PMs are welcome - Use [email]dena@susans.org[/email] or Discord if your unable to PM - Skype is available - My Transition
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Angela Drakken

I've been strongly considering mild FFS in the future, having a heart condition (deformed valve) I have my concerns about being put under, but I've had lots of surgeries before and many more await. :3
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Maybebaby56

Quote from: Dena on December 23, 2016, 02:15:58 PM
After coming to this site and discovering FFS, it has an appeal to me as I have a few additional feature that could probably use work. The problem is it's costly  and the surgery is brutal. My brother died as the result of a 6 hour surgery so there is a possible risk I could face the same danger with a 12 hour surgery. When you get right down to it, being passable should be the real goal and hopefully now I am on a proper HRT program, that will be enough.

Dena, I am so sorry you lost your brother.  I am an only child, so I don't know exactly what that pain feels like, but I do have two sons, and anything ever happened to them, I would be absolutely devastated.

Back to the topic at hand:

"The problem is it's costly and the surgery is brutal."

Truer words were never spoken.  I rarely start threads, but I posted my FFS experience a few weeks ago.  I had extensive FFS with Dr. Zukowski on September 15th.  It was hell, and it cost me $35K. I was under general anesthesia for nearly nine hours. I am still healing, but for me it was worth it, because I am not brave, and I was desperate to make sure I pass in public, and I would do nearly anything to make that happen.  I got my wish, as far as I can tell. Others are more rational than me, and make more practical decisions.

~Terri
"How we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives" - Annie Dillard
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Rachel

Dena, I am sorry about your brother.

I had extensive FFS with Dr. Spiegel. I look like another person, much younger and feminine. I did everything he recommended. The pain from FFS, other than 1 day due to throwing up all day from oxi in the hospital was manageable. I only took oxi in the hospital. The psychological shock was pretty bad when I took the bandages off. I was bruised and stitched everywhere. I am very glad I had it done but it took time to see my new me. Oh, I lost 10 or 12 pounds from not eating much, It was painful to eat and opening my mouth hurt.
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AnonyMs

bluepaint, I don't think there's any question people are judged by their looks, and rightly or wrongly many people care about their own looks. Trans people have it worse if they don't pass, and I've seen heaps of posts by transwomen worrying about male attributes in their own faces that no one else can see.

No doubt its all bad, and shouldn't be this way, but I can't see anything changing. Its just human nature.

Personally I'm all for FFS when the I decide to socially transition, and I can see I'd have as much as possible balanced against the risk of a bad result.

Here's a report on how good looks translates to money

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/how-much-is-being-attractive-worth-80414787/

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bluepaint

Quote from: AnonyMs on December 23, 2016, 08:59:47 PM
bluepaint, I don't think there's any question people are judged by their looks, and rightly or wrongly many people care about their own looks. Trans people have it worse if they don't pass, and I've seen heaps of posts by transwomen worrying about male attributes in their own faces that no one else can see.

No doubt its all bad, and shouldn't be this way, but I can't see anything changing. Its just human nature.

Personally I'm all for FFS when the I decide to socially transition, and I can see I'd have as much as possible balanced against the risk of a bad result.

Here's a report on how good looks translates to money

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/how-much-is-being-attractive-worth-80414787/
Im not quite sure if I totally agree with you but thats fine, we all have our point of view on the subject , this why I opened this thread! btw Its called " the halo effect" its been studied for years, more attractive people are more successful socially which is not surprising really in a society that judges by looks!


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Sophia Sage

I wouldn't use the word "judged," which to me implies conscious deliberation.  I mean, sure, there are some people that judge by looks, but I they're actually in a distinct minority.  But I think most if not all people automatically and subconsciously respond to how someone looks, because this is how our brains work.  We can pretty much instantly tell if someone is a man or a woman, just like we can instantly distinguish cats from dogs.  It isn't a matter of "judgment."

So the first thing to consider, from a practical standpoint, is whether it's needed in order to consistently and unequivocally elicit female gendering.  It isn't always necessary, but for the majority of us I think it is.  Second, then, is whether to go for a minimal approach or a maximal approach.  And again, that depends -- there are resources to consider, primarily, both financial and in terms of one's health.  I myself think a maximal approach yields the best results -- for there will be physiological limits regardless, like the position of the mandibular canal from which the mental nerve emerges, which limits how far you can go with jaw surgery.  There's the length of one's midface (the vertical distance from the center of your eyes to the center of your mouth) which makes certain proportions of the jaw and hairline distances look, well, proportional or not. 

Of course, there are all kinds of women out there, women with long chins and long upper lips and faint brow bossing and the like.  But our brains process images by gestalt -- the sum total of all features, and if too many features correspond to the maps we have of "man" instead of "woman" then misgendering will occur.  Now, if you're fairly immune to social dysphoria this won't be a problem, but then you probably wouldn't be considering facial surgery in the first place, and by extension your priorities in transition will be completely different.

I don't think we have a choice in how we experience the complex set of emotions we call dysphoria, and emotions begin in the subconscious, before conscious thought.  While philosophical considerations are all nice and good, when it comes to our lived experiences it's going to be our emotions, one way or another, that determine what we're really going to go for. 
What you look forward to has already come, but you do not recognize it.
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