Hi
I'm on a medium dose of estrogen with no spiro. Well, my estrogen level over the last year has been about 103 and when I first started I was on a low dose and my testosterone level went down and was  about 350 but over the year it kept creeping up and is now 527.

My endocrinologist says the estrogen level is good and not to worry about the testosterone because that level can vary.

Has anyone else seen this?

I don't want to take spiro yet because I can't have any major physical changes yet. I took the low dose and felt great then it felt like the testosterone was creeping back. Went to a medium dose and went through the same thing. Felt great and now it feels like the testosterone is creeping back.

Is it in my head? Has anyone else experienced this?
Do I need to start spiro to reduce the testosterone levels?

Thank you and Merry Christmas


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Without the unit of measurement the figures are utterly meaningless. Sorry!

Melanie, being from Connecticut, US, her estradiol levels are probably in pg/ml (103) and testosterone levels in ng/dl (350-527). Estradiol in women is all over the place and fluctuates in time. The right amount for you is a mystery and only trial and error can determine this. Individuals vary. Its measurement would appear useless, even according to some study findings. As far as testosterone goes, levels are indeed high for females (less than 100), and in the low-middle range of males (around 300-1,100 ng/dl). Levels will indeed fluctuate, being typically higher in the morning. Also, total testosterone levels are not quite accurate as a fraction of this is UNAVAILABLE, bound to SHBG (which is increased by estrogen). Hence, it would be more useful to measure bio-available or free testosterone.

But I ask you: what do you care more about? Levels or how you feel, breast growth, overall feminization? If these are good, why worry? Interestingly, in this study, feminization was similar despite high, medium or low T levels.

J Natl Med Assoc. 1992 Mar; 84(3): 241–250.

"Despite similar degrees of feminization in all 40 individuals in whom hormonal studies were performed, variable suppression of serum testosterone concentrations was present. Based on their testosterone concentrations while on feminizing hormone therapy, the transsexual inmates could be divided into three groups. In Group I (the "suppressed" group), the serum testosterone concentrations were markedly depressed (less than 10 ng/dL); in Group II (the "non-suppressed" group), the values of testosterone were normal (446 to 1072 ng/dL); and in Group III (the "intermediate" group), the testosterone values were between those of the suppressed group and the nonsuppressed group."

quote
being from Connecticut, US, her estradiol levels are probably in pg/ml (103) and testosterone levels in ng/dl (350-527).
unquote

In my profession such an assumption will put you before the coroner or get you struck off.

Both medicine and science do not depend upon loose assumptions nor casual quotations of the literature.

Quote from: Cindy on December 23, 2016, 03:58:36 PM
In my profession such an assumption will put you before the coroner or get you struck off.

Both medicine and science do not depend upon loose assumptions nor casual quotations of the literature.

This is why I said "Melanie, being from Connecticut, US, her estradiol levels are probably in pg/ml (103) and testosterone levels in ng/dl (350-527)". Were I her (or a) doctor which I am not, indeed, assumptions would be potentially dangerous. She is asking for opinions and in the end, a doctor will decide what to do. She knows better, I hope, than to rely exclusively on opinions in a forum or blindly believe in anything she hears or reads. She can double check with her doctor or her labs to find out if indeed her levels are in pg/ml and ng/dl. But, given I've been on forums for more than a decade, being quite familiar with these measurements and acknowledging my unprofessional/limited capacity (which she is now aware of), I still thought my intervention might be helpful.

I apologize for not mentioning earlier that I am NOT a doctor but I try to let people know this, as much as possible, given the occasion. 

Quote from: KayXo on December 23, 2016, 04:48:29 PM
This is why I said "Melanie, being from Connecticut, US, her estradiol levels are probably in pg/ml (103) and testosterone levels in ng/dl (350-527)". Were I her (or a) doctor which I am not, indeed, assumptions would be potentially dangerous. She is asking for opinions and in the end, a doctor will decide what to do. She knows better, I hope, than to rely exclusively on opinions in a forum or blindly believe in anything she hears or reads. She can double check with her doctor or her labs to find out if indeed her levels are in pg/ml and ng/dl. But, given I've been on forums for more than a decade, being quite familiar with these measurements and acknowledging my unprofessional/limited capacity (which she is now aware of), I still thought my intervention might be helpful.

I apologize for not mentioning earlier that I am NOT a doctor but I try to let people know this, as much as possible, given the occasion. 

Kay
Thank you for the information. I know your not a doctor and I will definitely follow my doctors advice. I wanted to get a another view from many of you with life experience. I must be over thinking the numbers and I am feeling good. So much better than before I started estrogen.

You were right about the units. Spot on! I forgot that's an important bit of information.

Sometimes it feels like the testosterone is creeping back but it could also be due to stresses of life and work. And then I saw the numbers and worried but I am in the low range as you pointed out. I feel better.

My doctor did say I can increase the dose and go on spiro when I'm ready but life won't allow it right now. I won't be able to hide the changes.

Thank you so much for the advice. 
Merry Christmas
Melanie.


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Quote from: Cindy on December 23, 2016, 03:58:36 PM
quote
being from Connecticut, US, her estradiol levels are probably in pg/ml (103) and testosterone levels in ng/dl (350-527).
unquote

In my profession such an assumption will put you before the coroner or get you struck off.

Both medicine and science do not depend upon loose assumptions nor casual quotations of the literature.

I'm also very wary of this casual application of cis-female ranges in MtF's. I honestly wish you wouldn't put them on every thread asking about estrogen levels, Kay. As you know I feel you once misled me though I mention that very gently and with peace.

We need our endocrinologists. Every person reacts differently to their regimes and what may be an acceptable range for one person might make another seriously ill.

Quote from: Rachel Richenda on December 24, 2016, 05:29:10 AM
I'm also very wary of this casual application of cis-female ranges in MtF's. I honestly wish you wouldn't put them on every thread asking about estrogen levels, Kay. As you know I feel you once misled me though I mention that very gently and with peace.

We need our endocrinologists. Every person reacts differently to their regimes and what may be an acceptable range for one person might make another seriously ill.

I actually agree with you and on more than one occasion have explained, in detail, why I believe aiming for a certain range is wrong because 1)individuals vary 2) levels fluctuate in time 3) we aren't ciswomen 4) estradiol ranges are VERY wide in women so that there really is no NORMAL. I always emphasize instead well-being, actual feminization and together, with a doctor, a mutual agreement as to what seems to be the best regimen for the individual in question.

I report scientific findings. It is up to you to double check, not blindly trust, do your own research, find out what doctors think. If anything, my intention is to set things clearer for everyone, not mislead.

Merry xmas and happy holidays.