Some background....

I've been seeing a psychologist that specializes in gender identity and the discussion of transition/HRT is the major topic of discussion.  He insists that I get out into the world to ensure that I can deal with being trans in society before making any medical steps.  Although this has been a part of my life since I've been 5-6 years old,  and I've been "crossdressing" in private for 35 years (I'm 43) ....due to my height (185cm) and certain manly features (nose/brow) I've been too afraid to present in public.  His thought is that although HRT may soften features, and help in small ways, that my current form isn't going to change drastically and going out 'as is' should the first step.  To me, without some confidence from HRT/FFS it feels like it could be a painful experience that is bordering on punishment rather than liberation.  Chicken and egg scenario between the therapist and I.  He's also suggesting that I get a makeover from a local transgender makeup artist (happens to be drag queen) that can show me the best female version of me (HRT or not), in hopes of giving me confidence to go out in public....he says if this doesn't work, then I likely will have a hard time even during/after transition.

At the core I feel like a woman, but I wonder how deep the shell is that I've put up for 40 years, the conditioning and guard that I've grown up with.  I'm fearful is that it will never be broken down and that I'll always just be looked at as a man in a dress,  regardless of how my inner being is. 

For those of you girls that transitioned later in life (40+) how difficult was is it to breakdown the conditioning and learned behaviors so the woman inside could flourish?

Let's play. Send me a picture and I will run it through my Portrait Pro software, if you want an idea of what others will see. Let our Susan's experts review and make comments. I am in the same boat as you because I have had a lifetime of negative response, mostly in my own head. When I was 20 we had mostly Christine Jorgensen as inspiration. Today there are many examples of successful transition, as it gains acceptance by the non trans community at large. I could point to Jazz Jennings, Carmine Carrera, Janet Mock, and a whole bevy of others like our own Dena as inspiration. Unfortunately there are also many porno sites that give the wrong impression we are sex crazed, self centered frauds.    I know this is not who I am and I can't recall many others on Susan's pursuing that lifestyle. Other sites, perhaps.

I'm 54, came out 14 months ago.  There's more to transitioning than going out in female clothes.  It's also a state of mind. 

But with that said, I did what was suggested to you.  I spent a few days as Denise a month after coming out.  I was scared as hell.  But I learned a lot like I don't like wigs (okay a wasted $200) and make up takes practice. On the positive side I'm very comfortable in heels, jeans, tunic tops.  Did I pass? No way.  But I was 1000 miles from anyone I knew and the sky didn't fall nor did the world end.  I actually talked to a lot of nice people, at a bar and in the hot tub (guy suit but nail polish/facial make-up). I explained what gender dysphoria is and everybody was understanding.

So as I said, a few days and I learned a lot.  Time and money well spent.  I repeated the trip just a few weeks ago and from what I learned over the past year about myself and how to "not be a guy" gave me the confidence to spend 5 days as Denise 100%.  I learned that transition for me was right but I can see how it could have gone the other way.

HRT for me has silenced the voices in my head but I'm not sure if it was the drugs or the mental idea of finally getting beasts.  I don't know. 

If you have never gone out try it.  Go to a city that's a few hours away and put on something that won't draw attention and go out.  Start slow, a movie, buy popcorn, go to a safe bar ("gay" bars might be a place to start).  Talk to people tell them your story. See how you feel.  Then you will be better prepared to answer the should I or shouldn't I question.

Keep us up to date, please.

- Dee

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A question for you, how bad do you want it? The transitions is a lot of work but none of it is beyond your ability to do. The transition is a number of small tasks, learn makeup, hair removal, hair style, assemble a wardrobe and so on until your reach the point where you walk out that door for the first time. You are fortunate in discovering this site as all the information you could ever want is available here. I spend 5 years before I reached the point where you are now. I was another 3 years getting to surgery but I suspect it could be less for you. In stead of asking us if it's possible, I hope you start asking what do I do next.

I think it is a rather cruel methodology to push on others, if you wish to start HRT, you should not be held back until you go out in public.  It is something that held me back in the 90s, after just hearing about it. 

Really, I would rather just start HRT, see how far it takes me, and make my own steps at my own pace, rather than go out like I am right now, it may make little to no difference, I may look exactly like I do right now, but for me, on a mental level it would be the first step, it would be the most important step, and god forbid.. perhaps, just perhaps, if I did not change it would be just enough for me, to be happy with myself.

This sort of treatment is cruel, and I am sorry you are going through it.

I'm 46, and I completely empathize with you.  I don't pass, although now I'm on hormones my face is changing, so there's hope.  But what I did and do is wear women's clothes that pass as male - jeans, tennis shoes, cami under a flannel shirt.  Panties of course. That was scary at first.  After awhile I got used to it, and then I went further.  I have been out in public dressed - going to me therapist dressed, sitting in a Starbucks on the other side of town, walking through Target.

I stopped transitioning (hormones) a number of times because I was - am - afraid I won't pass.  But when you start to see changes, it gets harder and harder to stop. (I'm on them now, probably for good this time)

I can't promise you it will work out.  But I can say it's absolutely worth giving it a shot and seeing where the ride takes you.

Hi Staci,
   I might fit the description you mentioned. I'm 59 and full time M to F over 6 months now. I did not want to be full time until I had FFS. I did go out in female mode a lot before that. I think it would be wise to go out even if it is out of town. You should experience it. It is an awkward time when you feel conspicuous, but you can't avoid all awkward times. It is valuable for your own feedback. You will surprise yourself if you have true motivation. Aren't you sick and tired of being ruled by fear? The more you do, the easier it will get. I had FFS. I pass reasonably well, but even at that point, you can be seen as trans. The true freedom point is when you become okay with being seen as a trans woman. That is when I truly relaxed and started to be okay with things. I think it is important to go out because when you do, it lets you see how overblown your fears are. So much that I thought would happen (bad) didn't come close to happening. At this point, your worst enemy is fear and you have to punch it right in the nose. In the interest of full disclosure, you will have to keep an eye out for your safety even if you pass 99%.
Monica
As far as breaking down the conditioning from early days, HRT helps you with that. You do have to be willing to let it happen. The whole process is about letting go of your fear shame and denial. It isn't easy but the payoff is awesome, fantastic. You will be happier for it.

Quote from: staciM on December 23, 2016, 01:25:59 PM
For those of you girls that transitioned later in life (40+) how difficult was is it to breakdown the conditioning and learned behaviors so the woman inside could flourish?

I'm turning 40 next month. It takes a bit of effort. Changing your voice requires paying attention 100% of the time, even when laughing or coughing. You can't sit in a chair with your legs spread out, like I used to do, and that requires your attention too. It's wise to hide your Adam's apple if you have a prominent one, as I have. Pencil skirts require some changes in the way you walk, and it *always* takes longer to reach your destination. Specially when wearing heels, and not to mention the time to makeup, of course!

Quote from: Denise on December 23, 2016, 07:50:25 PM
I'm 54, came out 14 months ago.  There's more to transitioning than going out in female clothes.  It's also a state of mind. 

I'd say, it's primarily a state of mind, and then these small details like clothing.

Quote from: Denise on December 23, 2016, 07:50:25 PM
But with that said, I did what was suggested to you.  I spent a few days as Denise a month after coming out.  I was scared as hell.  But I learned a lot like I don't like wigs (okay a wasted $200) and make up takes practice. On the positive side I'm very comfortable in heels, jeans, tunic tops.  Did I pass? No way.  But I was 1000 miles from anyone I knew and the sky didn't fall nor did the world end.

I can relate to this a bit. I spent a weekend in Bilbao, Spain, traveling from Madrid. I knew no one there, and while people stared at me, well that was the point of the experiment. It was very enlightening, I understood I really needed electrolysis, otherwise my stubble would tell the whole story of my life, no matter how hard I tried to conceal it. I don't like wigs either but it's not a wasted 280 EUR, it's money spent in learning that I don't like wigs and I need to grow my hair.

Nowadays, after a few sessions of electrolysis and still wearing the same wig, I seem to pass 95% of the time, which amazes me to no end.

Quote from: Denise on December 23, 2016, 07:50:25 PM
If you have never gone out try it.  Go to a city that's a few hours away and put on something that won't draw attention and go out.  Start slow

Yes, this. Going to a nearby city allows you to take your first steps, while not caring how "different" you might look. It will make you get used to it. Go into shops and buy some makeup or clothing, or maybe just ask if you can get this shirt in red. Over time you may feel good and "at home", and then you may find yourself comfortable presenting as a woman in your city. But don't think about that at the beginning, just experiment and explore, baby steps.

Girl i am so proud of you <3.... im not sure about 40 and over, but i am 22 and yes from a young age i was to be a masculine one.... a ''man'' if you will... well, needless to say that hasnt been going too well... but, even here at an age half to yours (or roughly) it was hard to accept a feminine side, let alone embrace  a woman side. Litterly took years. What i guess im trying to say, is no matter your age its going to be a road to travel. It took me YEARS to accept, or should i say embrace Ashley living up inside me.. but i dont think age matters as much as  finding a good therapist to help give you the proper tools to help discover who you are and what steps to take to underdrive the ''man'' feelings you picked up over the years. It can be done, at any age and there are many here who have done so. I know i am a young one here, but for many many years i longed to be  a woman, despite being super manly and presenting as a masculine man. So i too know what it can be like to have your heart go one way and  feel obligated to do things a certian way. You can do it girl <3 inbox if need be

I have not yet transitioned, but I would like to soon.
However, aside from what the psychologist said, there is still great wisdom in just going out in female mode whenever you can. I do not crossdress at home. I am not full time, but whenever I do wear women's clothes, I also put on some makeup and go out and do whatever errands need to be done. I go to the grocery store as a woman. I go to Home Depot as a woman. Maybe I pass, but probably not. People just see me as a person who WANTS to be assumed to be a woman. I smile, make eye contact, and spread warmth when I go out.
Trust me, staciM, it truly is a liberating feeling to just go greet the world as the woman inside of you.

I figured out I was trans in my late 20's. Back then you were required to live one year as a woman before you could start HRT. That was the primary reason that I buried my feelings and lived as a cross dresser in the closet for the next 40 years. Only when I discovered informed consent did I start HRT and found the courage to live as myself.
I wish very much I could have started back then.

I think what your psychologist is doing is cruel and very backwards. Time to find a new one.

Quote from: staciM on December 23, 2016, 01:25:59 PM
I've been too afraid to present in public.  His thought is that although HRT may soften features, and help in small ways, that my current form isn't going to change drastically and going out 'as is' should the first step.  To me, without some confidence from HRT/FFS it feels like it could be a painful experience that is bordering on punishment rather than liberation.  Chicken and egg scenario between the therapist and I.  He's also suggesting that I get a makeover from a local transgender makeup artist (happens to be drag queen) that can show me the best female version of me (HRT or not), in hopes of giving me confidence to go out in public....he says if this doesn't work, then I likely will have a hard time even during/after transition.

Hi Staci,

I started my transition at age 56, and I am now full-time at age 59.  My first thought when I read your story, was to suggest to your therapist that he ought to try dressing up and presenting as female in public and see how it feels.

"To me, without some confidence from HRT/FFS it feels like it could be a painful experience that is bordering on punishment rather than liberation."

You're darn right it is (or could be). Before I went out even part-time I told myself there was no way in heck I was going to go out dressed in public without facial hair removal, several months on hormones, and FFS.  I did eventually start going out in public part-time before FFS, but it was scary. I was always very careful to either go with a supportive friend (in my case, always a woman) or meet supportive friends where I was going.  Fortunately, I never encountered weird stares or rude comments.  I think I passed just well enough to not attract attention.  I was also careful to wear very casual clothes, and blend in as much as possible.  No hooker heels or garish makeup.

By the time I even tried presenting in public, I had done about two years of electrolysis/laser facial hair removal, and several months on HRT. I wasn't the prettiest thing you'd ever see, but I didn't have a prominent brow ridge, and I'm only 5'8" (170 cm), and I have relatively small hands and feet for a male.

Certainly, going for a makeover at a trans-friendly place will give you a sense how feminine you can look, but his statement "...if this doesn't work, then I likely will have a hard time even during/after transition" is not something I agree with.  To me, those are two different things.  If you're not happy with how you look, you have to work at the physical changes so you can have the confidence to go out en femme. Getting made up like a drag queen does not predict how well you will eventually present, or feel comfortable with who you are.

To answer your other question, "How difficult was is it to breakdown the conditioning and learned behaviors so the woman inside could flourish?", it was not difficult at all.  It was a relief, and I took to it like a duck to water. It just feels so natural.  My biggest gripe is having to do a year of RLE ("real life experience") so that my insurance company will pay for SRS.  I don't like having a penis in my panties.  It causes me intense dysphoria.  Oh well.  It's their ball and their rules, so I have to suck it up.  I just spent $35K USD on FFS, and I can't afford to pay for SRS out of pocket. 

I'm right there with you, girl.  You can do this, if you are determined. It will be a tough road. It will be expensive, scary, and at times painful,  but the reward is HUGE.  And don't forget, it's okay to be afraid (if you weren't, I'd be questioning your sanity).  It's okay to step back for a while and gather yourself if you need to.  You will find your own path. 

With kindness,

Terri   

EDIT: I agree completely with what Charley said. It may be time to find a new therapist.
 

I'm out and full time now.  My original plan was to wait another year for HRT to do it's magic and work on some other bits, but Reality had other plans.  I resolved that since I was out on my own, I'd just do it, be myself and deal with whatever came my way.

I found peace and a profound reduction in stress.  I'm well on my way to finding joy in my life. 

Being ready, waiting for whatever physical changes I though i would need, turns out to be less important to me than being authentic, myself, no longer cowering in the dark and pretending to be something I'm not.

Is there an effort to doing this?  Oh, heck yes!  But I embrace it, a joyous task that I am constantly challenged by and intend to take on every day.  I practice my voice pitch, using nothing but that in daily conversation.  I work on my posture constantly.  I never go out without my hair and makeup as good as I can get them.

Will i get FFS and SRS at some point?  Certainly!  But, I am in the USA, and receive medical care from one of our HMOs, Kaiser Permanente through an ACA individual plan, so there are always clouds of uncertainty on the horizon, moving targets of gatekeeping that can be snatched away with one vote.  Some nice vacations in Thailand, Spain, or beautiful Buenos Aires are always possibilities, and I intend to have my travel papers ready just in case.

I have my path, and I'm running towards my goal.


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I don't get it...my MtF friends seem to think "dressing like a female" involves short skirts, super-long nails, dresses, spike heels, tons of make up, frilly blouses, etc.

Yet NO female I knew growing up, and even now, dresses like that except forced to by work or attending a formal event.
Most women I know HATE skirts and dresses..ESPECIALLY heels, which they look on as torture and kick off as soon as possible.

Yet my MtF friends think they must wear 7-inch red nails (no woman I know does that), mini skirts, and 5-inch heels to "be like other women."

I keep telling them to "look around at cis women at the mall. Look at your own wives!" but they seem blind.

Maybe some middle school cis girls do that, but certainly no mature women, if they aren't in show business.

Quote from: Raell on December 24, 2016, 07:51:23 PM
I don't get it...my MtF friends seem to think "dressing like a female" involves short skirts, super-long nails, dresses, spike heels, tons of make up, frilly blouses...
...
Maybe some middle school cis girls do that, but certainly no mature women, if they aren't in show business.

I've seen this as well as some other variations in fashion faux pas.  I am convinced that within every repressed MtF there is an inner frustrated 14 year old girl who has never gotten a chance to encounter the world and experience everything that goes into building good taste.

The trick is to ride herd on her, not give into her every impulse, and help her grow up as part of coming out as a whole, integrated, and authentic person.  Anyone who has dealt with a real-life 14 year old girl can tell you that isn't easy.  (I had two of them...)


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Thanks so much for everyone's comments....I'm genuinely touched by the support on this forum.

I've had another session with my therapist and although he's referred me to a gender Psychiatrist for treatment that is potentially 12-18 months away, unfortunately, he still insists on me going out a few times and attending group therapy presenting as female over the next 3-4 months before he will sign-off on the start of HRT from a GP in the short term.  Cruel, perhaps....but it seems that's the method used for gatekeeping the process in my province.  Ironically, it's time to put my big girl panties on and find some balls (that I don't really want).   BTW, the Psychiatrist wait is for potential GCS discussions and seeing an endo for more precise/extensive hormone treatment.  HRT can start with the therapist sign-off from a GP but he still wants the "RLE".

Dawn,thanks.... I'll submit a picture in the coming days and perhaps if you (or others) have time I would love your input.

Quote from: staciM on December 29, 2016, 05:08:41 PM
I've had another session with my therapist and although he's referred me to a gender Psychiatrist for treatment that is potentially 12-18 months away, unfortunately, he still insists on me going out a few times and attending group therapy presenting as female over the next 3-4 months before he will sign-off on the start of HRT from a GP in the short term.  Cruel, perhaps....but it seems that's the method used for gatekeeping the process in my province.  Ironically, it's time to put my big girl panties on and find some balls (that I don't really want).

Staci, it won't be so bad.  I went to my second therapy session with the generalist, and all sessions with my gender therapist as Michelle.  Oh, I looked a sight.  Cheap black cosplay wig, an old fitted shirt from Goodwill, cheap jeans from COSTCO, even cheaper black sneakers from Target.  I posted a picture of that here, one of my very earliest posts.  That first time, I was scared to even get out of the car.  I parked so I could make a dash for the clinic entrance, waited till nobody was in sight, and dashed in.  I had to check in with the receptionist, who promptly "Ma'am"ed me.  So well trained!  I just sat in the waiting room trying to look inconspicuous.  The therapist walked in, didn't see me, called my name, and I stood up.  "Oh, there you are.  Let's go back to the office." And he led the way...

It's doable. It's way less scary than it seems, and in group, you are among others who just did the same thing not long ago.  They'll help you.

I certainly can't think of a safer place to present as yourself. 

Waiting for HRT to make changes can be frustrating, because it is a very slow process, and because it won't affect bone or cartilage, it's not all that feminizing by itself anyway.  Presenting as yourself, getting comfortable in your own skin, and getting some coaching in group will be tremendously helpful.  Give it a try.

Transition is never ending and if u put so much weight on what other people will say you will never be free from that cage and you'll never be happy.......so start living now and enjoy every milestone....when I was younger and starting my transition I can easily pass already even without any surgery but someone will always be able to clock u no matter what...once people knew I was trans they would point out the maleness just to be able to say something, they will out u, jokes etc.... I think  99.8% of transgender experienced that even the most gorgeous passable ones. My point is whether it is now or later or whether u r the most passble or gorgeous some people will say negative stuff.... So start living now if u can... And I think ur Therapist is right, try it now and see if u can handle it  and weigh things before u make any permanent changes. There is no amount of hormone or surgery can instantaneously make u  extremely passable in a snap of a finger....so might as well start living and being free now or forever cage urself.... It is a process..... Goodluck and I really wish u well.... I feel your fear and ur pain.

Waiting on HRT can feel like a huge weight. I have started wearing women's jeans out most of the time. Both skinny leg and flared leg. If it doesn't hug my calf I don't buy them though. I have also started wearing dark browns and marron nail polish alot of the time. I am in a small Midwestern us town so my nails do get looks. But here's my thought, I am going to transition no matter what. I have lived here all my life. People are going to find out someday so I might as well break the community into seeing me. Honestly if the younger generation hadn't opened the doors of personal expression already I would be beyond terrified. But here I am doing it. I'm letting my hair grow longer. My wife colored my hair a lighter redish shade to cover my greying brown, and my ears are now both pierced. I shaved my beard of a decade and keep my brows tamed. So far so good. The hard part is getting over what I think men are thinking about it. Trying to fit into male society has been the bane of my existence anyway. I just need to unlearn old habits.

No way will you get me out there in womens clothes without a heap of surgery and HRT....wrong so very wrong...once I started to swap my wardrobe out from male jeans to female, male t-->-bleeped-<-s to female and so on and soon. I was out fully dressed before I actually realised it.

You do not have to wear a dress or a skirt to be a woman
You do not have to wear make up
You do not have to have long hair
You do not have to wear high heels to be a woman

There are plenty of women in this world who will never wear a dress or skirt from the time they are allowed to choose...that does not make them any less of a woman. Personally my dysphoria is so intense at times that I don't care anymore. I am not full time but only for practical reasons such as waiting on support ID which is will happen soon. The only other hurdle is my wife and getting her to the right place. This too will happen...

I have now completed all the medical procedures I can afford  apart from SRS and once healed I should be out as fulltime by April.

What I am saying is don't be boxed in my some therapists view of what a woman looks like...this is your journey you decide how you look at a woman no one else. Pass don't pass you are still a woman.

Liz