Quote from: AnonyMs on December 28, 2016, 01:04:10 AM

Quote from: winterkat on December 28, 2016, 12:48:06 AM
But I can't seem to get over the hump of actually presenting female outside of the house.  I was trying to figure out why some women choose to remain in male mode so that it may somewhat help me understand my own reason or motivation, and what my fear is, exactly.

I'm not doing it because of family and money. I have considerable fear as well, but I think (hope) its the first two that are blocking me at the moment. I don't think what I'm doing is sustainable much longer.

I'm always reminded of this post. This not the way I wish to live the rest of my life.

A strange but lovely meeting - I ended up crying so triggers
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=189165.5

Now you have me in tears as well.

She has passed. I went to her funeral. Unbeknown to anyone I said goodbye to a sister and not a patient.

That really was a beautiful, thank you for sharing.  I've read it awhile back and when I was starting and really cemented my decision to start HRT.  My heart goes out to her.

Hi Winterkat;
Yes and its difficult.  I have transitioned twice (de-transitioning in between because of family and work). These days I have the relative luxury of living in both Great Britain and Australia (sort of commuting between the two countries). In Australia I try to live as much of my time as a Woman as possible, but when I am home in the United Kingdom as soon as I step off the plane, I am living 100% of my time as a woman. I also travel to the USA and Europe a bit and spend most of my time there too as a woman. It would be nice to be just myself 100% of the time, especially so I don't have to think about silly things like sending an email to a customer and signing myself as Judith. I have had emails back saying who is Judith?.or people on the phone saying that doesn't sound like you. The thing is these days my male voice sort of doesn't exist any more and I really have to think about using it.
I pretty much pass 100%, although I would love to really lose about 15-18kg. Not soo easy at my age. And friends always say I am much calmer and more relaxed as Judith. Whereas being my alter -ego is quite stressful. As my therapist says basically I am cross dressing as male. These days it feels sort of strange as Mens clothes basically don't fit properly any longer.
Judith

I've been on full dose HRT for 1.5 years but have not socially transitioned. Most of my family and friends know I'm trans but I choose not to present as female outside of the home; the reason for this is fear. No amount of hormones or surgery will reverse the damage that testosterone has done, and my fear is that I will never pass. That said, as societal acceptance of us trans folk continues to improve, I hope that one day I'll be able to overcome that fear and live fully and authentically as the woman I know I am.

Quote from: winterkat on December 28, 2016, 12:48:06 AM
I was trying to figure out why some women choose to remain in male mode so that it may somewhat help me understand my own reason or motivation, and what my fear is, exactly.

I have several reasons at the moment. 

First, HRT by itself has mostly eliminated my dysphoria and for the first time in my life I am living without that constant voice in my head.  So I have achieved much of what I originally wanted, which was to feel normal.

Second, as I said earlier, I really don't try to hide anything and when I'm out anonymously in public I'm often gendered female anyway.  Even when I'm not certain exactly what people are thinking they almost never say Sir anymore whereas before it was constant.  People's interactions with me are normally now different than before.  Here I am fortunate that I have all my hair, it is long, and my face is at least now pretty androgynous.

My third reason may or may not be a good one but here it is.  I don't really have an option, nor a real desire, to stop my life in place and start over somewhere that people don't know me.  While I work in a place with LBGT protections and could socially transition there, I am pretty well known and liked there and could not be invisible.  This is exacerbated since my work history is male exclusive and my work environment remains about 95% male.  I don't feel that going to work in considerably different clothes and having people that know me use a new name really addresses my needs when in their minds they have known me a long time and know who I am.   That feels more like a state of acting rather than a state of being.



It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves

I was lucky in this regard.. I had all the same fears as the ladies here, my parents had already disowned me. I was very gender neutral in public, the only real hint of femininely was the studs I wore in my ears, my long hair and my shaved legs and all of these traits are acceptable for males as well.

Something happened in my life which kinda solved this for me.

Just after I started HRT, i moved to another town due to a business opportunity. So I on moving day, I got into the car as a male and got out on the other side as a female. We did travel over two days, so day 1, I wore a very gender neutral outfit, only underneath my female side was present, a panty and a sports bra, the sports bra helped protect my very sensitive nipples. The bra was not noticeable due to the hoodie I had on.

The second day, I wore a long winter dress, some hooped earrings and  I even put nail polish on my finger nails. When we arrived I was girl, and all the people I have met in my new life, have no idea I was ever born a male.

Quote from: winterkat on December 28, 2016, 12:48:06 AM

Well, visibly presenting as female.  Not so much passing but I wanted to know if that was a factor in someone's decision.  I think I might pass if I presented female (a picture I just took about an hour ago, some light make up, etc. http://imgur.com/5Ex4dXr) 

But I can't seem to get over the hump of actually presenting female outside of the house.  I was trying to figure out why some women choose to remain in male mode so that it may somewhat help me understand my own reason or motivation, and what my fear is, exactly.

And I'm guessing you presented as female long before you started hrt?

I didn't present as female in public at all before HRT. On the other hand all of the people i was close to have know forever that I consider myself trans and as I said I've been practicing a more feminine way of relating to people for a long time. I feel like Warlockmaker and I are very much reciprocal approaches, I care far more for passing as emotionally and relationally feminine than I do for passing visibly.

Because I had a plan to start modifying appearance at the same time as beginning hormones, I stopped caring whether a bra was visible under my clothes a few months before HRT and chose to stop getting haircuts well before and by the time last January arrived and it was time to start I could (just) tie it back in a ponytail.

I'm aiming for more feminine presentation and there are changes I'm not going to make, including wearing a wig and investing the huge amount of time and money that goes in to facial electrolysis (my beard is heavily grey so laser is only an option for small areas). So I still wear my beard for now and keep it close shorn as opposed to the long beard I've sported for decades. I may eventually remove the beard but being largely bald trumps passing.

Today my skin has changed remarkably (acquaintances who I've not seen since starting hrt can see that changed but may not pickup on other cues). My breasts are sufficiently grown and visible that i can see strangers noticing them. I wear somewhat more feminine attire, however I'm saving every penny for travel to SF for my GCS in April so my wardrobe remains extremely limited. I wear limited makeup and I learned long ago that an understated but complete makeup application can remarkably impact how people read and respond to me.

If I had a prayer of passing as well as seems readily possible for you I would have long since chosen to pass in daily life. I still would have opted for gradual change as I think it's easier on relationships to manage it that way, however I think the other way is equally viable, it's a YMMV thing

Welp, I've been on HRT 4 1/2 years now.   2 years on "androgynous" blood levels (low end E for F, low end T for M), rest of the time essentially on low transition dosage (T fully suppressed, whatever levels of E).

I'm in a "neutral" place - content with life and the dysphoria is well controlled.

Reasons I havent socially transitioned relate to the usual family and work constraints.  I lead a happy fulfilled life outside of the dysphoria and it's well managed enough with HRT that the benefits of social transition aren't big enough against all the upheaval that would bring.

On top of that, although I'm pretty confident I would pass if I put in sufficient effort, T has done enough to me that I'd never be quite happy with myself and would likely end up being a serial surgery junky. 

Just told my better half about gender disphoria, she welcomed it open arms. It's nice to know that I've got her support. Now comes the hard part with the counselors.

Quote from: winterkat on December 27, 2016, 11:10:34 PM
Wow, I'm amazed that so many women decided to not socially transition for so long. 

omg, Riki, I don't know how you could have done that, 15 years on and off must have been super difficult!

Hi Winterkat,

It was, but I didn't know why I kept wanting to have the body of a female and why I could not relate to my male body or penis. From childhood I was brought up by a strict military style father who literally smashed any female traits out of me. I was then sent to an all boys private school where they continued my fathers work in removing any signs of femininity as well. I was then expected to have a successful career and as my sexual orientation was towards women I just accepted it. The 60's and 70's were not trans friendly or even aware. There was no one to ask. Our Doctor/Physician was a family friend. I knew I wasn't gay, I did love sport, particularly male sports and I was in high powered business roles that were traditionally male. I could not work it out out. This was why I kept taking imported HRT, (why I wanted it and felt so good on it wasn't obvious to me, now it looks stupid I know) and then stopping when my female partners would wonder if I still loved them and why I we were not having sex as much as before. I read something on the web one day and suddenly the stars aligned and I knew. Unfortunately that was only about 10 years ago and it took another 5, another website, a book, followed by another relationship to work it out completely. My current partner is amazing and very supportive, but she is still attracted to the male form so we have some work to do. It's never easy!

Different from most that i know or read about. I spent so many years in the presentation/role of feminine male, that my transition to my true gender was almost a non-event socially. People have noticed changes for sure (hair, breasts, etc.) but i think many just took it in stride, given their understanding of me.

Other than perhaps in sports, i was never acting as a stereotypical male, never alpha, never concerned all that much about personal power, never took pride in masculinity or saw personal value in it.  If a bully tried to pick a fight, i'd find the nearest authority figure. Women are not weak and i'm not a weak, i just want to point out my behavior in relation to stereotypes. The list could go on and on.

Despite all of this, i realize i had some male privilege socially and have seen that disappear. That was sort of expected.

I have lived for about 7 years on HRT and haven't transitioned socially. I would love to continue to slowly make adjustments to my look (hair transplant, trache, longer hair), then transition at that point. I guess it all really comes down to my fear keeping me from transitioning. I just need to take steps to get past that. Unfortunately there aren't any transgender support groups near the city in which I live, I think that would do wonders for me.

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

Thank you everyone for sharing your experiences.  It is a lot to consider and seeing as how this isn't as uncommon as I thought, I hate to admit that I'm somewhat glad that I'm not alone in being hesitant about being out and socially transitioning.

I guess I just find the ease of living as a male so much easier than living as a non-passing trans woman and although it bothers me, I learned to live with it.

I kind of look at it that I'm transitioning over a very long period of time. Slow-motion-male-fail (SM2F??). So from one month to the next my family and friends don't notice anything. My wife who is privy to all of this laughs when we look at pictures of me five or ten years ago. She points out the change. I've evolved from a outwardly typical man (athletic with beard and buzz cut too) into a feminine male - long hair, no facial hair, androgynous clothing, colors, jewelry, more female mannerisms and importantly, I've allowed the empathic and emotional part of me to be come out. It feels good just to get out of the male rat race which I was never made for! People just write me off as gay. Whatever. Physically, I've always had little breasts since before puberty so everyone is used to me hiding my bumps. And now, I've been on HRT for 3 weeks. I already feel an enormous sense of relief from the dysphoria. It's not as pervasive and constant. And the final nail in the libido coffin is such a gift.

Will I ever socially totally transition? I don't know, but like RobynD, I think when/if it happens it should be a non-event to those around me because personality wise I'm already living 24-7 as the woman I am sans name, pronouns and restrooms. Would I like to be validated by society? Would I like to wear a dress in public once in a while? Oh goddess yeah. I'm practical though and thankful too that I am where I am. I think after a while on HRT and some laser treatments I'll be able to go outside my social group as Lauren and get my social validation then. And I'll come out to more people as needed.

One last thought... is that politically, who knows whats going to happen over the next few years. It may not be the best of times to be overt. Even in my bluest of states, there's still a lot of hate and the red supporters are feeling very empowered...

I start hrt in 2008 in my teen but I never transition socially
The reason why is
I'm from Saudi Arabia and being trans or transitioning will send me to death penalty
I plan to escape for my life and complete my transition in safe place I'm in real danger right now
Meanwhile I have to hide myself for my life

YES EVERYONE SOME OF US IN REAL DANGER for being who they are !!

I pass as woman and this is BIG problem in country like Saudi Arabia
Because women here dress Islamic black niqab which I can't dress it and if I do it will be a fast ticket to death

I hide my hair and my femininity all the time but people still harass me and throw things at me
I NEVER go out alone
Even my own family harassing me on daily basis

I can pass as woman because a lot of time people call me miss lady etc but even so it's dangerous to go out without the Islamic black niqab

Most of the time I say I'm not Arab etc so they don't call the police after me




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hi Rose,

Be careful and be safe! I hope you can leave there soon as no one should have a death sentence hanging over their head cause of who they are!

Hugs Riki

It's coming up on 8 years for me on feminizing doses of HRT. In the prior decades I was on/low dose for the emotional relief, or Brain-Reset. I also spent part of those 8 years living part-time as female. Today I live and present primarily as male.

Hiding the girls is not a problem. Being a former fatty I always wear baggy clothes (guy mode only  ) A few times my wife might make a comment along the lines of "You should change your top, your tits are showing" So on goes the even baggier tee-shirt

Life's current circumstances dictate me not socially transitioning. Between the big financial risk and my wife's declining health, I cannot take the chance of a full transition. I count myself among the fortunate few that do not NEED to transition. Least not most days I feel I don't need to. So I do my best to balance all the important aspects of my life

It is possible, and often done.  Many people start and progress through years of HRT without changing too much about how they present.

As I do not look at transitioning as an all or nothing proposition, I am would say that in more than a few areas I have not socially transitioned in a lot of peoples estimations.  I wear jeans and tshirts 90% of the time when not in my work uniform.  I do not wear dresses or skirts except around the house and rarely wear any mentionable makeup.  I guess really, it depends on how you define social transition.  Even with my legal name and gender change, my presentation is all to often androgynous.

I have a friend who has been on HRT for about 5 years and she has not made any attempt to socially present herself in a feminine manner.

I am starting anti-androgens and HRT in the next few weeks and I will not be transitioning in work until FFS and breast augmentation likely late in this year, beginning of next. I have a number of work responsibilities that make it necessary to come out at a time when I can pass without interference with clients.

So I intend to be on HRT for several months and quite possibly a year plus before fully socially transitioning, but it will be very much: I'm off for surgery now and when I return I will be female.

 I'm at the other end of the spectrum on this. I transitioned six months socially before starting HRT or electrolysis, it was not because of some RLE requirement it is what I had to do to save myself from myself.   I was in my mid 50's 385 lbs and just waiting to die, when one of my older brothers died of an aneurysm it really got me thinking about my life or lack of one. Now 4 years later I am 185 lbs and living on the outside how I have always felt on the inside. I gave up a lot to do this but I have gained much more in return.

Stephie