My last opportunities to change my mind are here. I'd feel quite embarrassed to drop the plan now after insisting that Dr Wittenberg's staff schedule me into an April cancellation. On the other hand embarrassment is a smaller price to pay than a wrong decision.

See my post in sexuality for more details and please give me responses wherever you feel more appropriate.

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,218064.0.html

Since they started working on my April date and especially since it was confirmed last week I'm now evaluating how I feel about proceeding. A year of RLE is complete, my letters are written or drafted and due to be sent soon. I'm absolutely and undeniably happier with testosterone effectively nil just from estrogen injection and I'm nearing completion of electrolysis in the surgical area. I have enough money saved to get myself to SF for the procedure and enough of a cushion and I have a fallback option of going with the BMC team here in Boston.

My nagging concern (see above post) is that I've proved for myself that I have a sexuality that's more serviceable than it was before HRT even if I keep my <shenis>. A couple of months ago I was glad to learn this and to be able to say I'd survive better with just HRT if something kept GCS from being an option.

As I said in the post about the sex, I think I know my answers and I'm trying not to telegraph that, I'd like to hear what people think.

I think this is something only you could answer. That said, do you feel your hesitancy is based on fear of either losing the  girl friend or of the surgery? I imagine it is natural to have some thought as to "Will I have regrets?" Do you have  any pride in having "mini you" still there? Does it bother you to pull down the pants and see it there? If you proved you can have pleasure without touching "mini you" what is the argument for keeping it? I could go into how I feel, but the only thing that matters here is what you feel. If you are  really thinking  that you are moving too fast, I wouldn't continue only because it might be embarrassing to postpone or cancel.
Good luck Sadie!
Moni
I will add one personal thought. My sexually is totally wrapped up in having female body parts so my answer is simple. If your sexual concept is not as rigid, maybe living with "mini you" is feasible.

If your GF longs for you to keep your current genitalia, she almost certainly engages in a bit of male gendering of you.  I would (and actually did eventually) find that completely intolerable.  Sexuality had nothing to do with it.

It's good, btw, that you continue to enjoy yourself sexually before surgery -- helps to keep the nerves and brain engaged. And it's pretty telling that you got off being touched "where my vagina would (will) be." 

I think you'll be getting surgery in April, and your GF won't be staying around much longer than a year.

Thanks Monica - yes only I can decide, and every post-SRS woman I've talked to about it has carried some fears right to the OR and all have been fine after. So this is a compare & contrast with other people's experiences.

Sure I fear I would miss the simplicity of just having a <shenis> and I have some lingering concerns that the loss of sensation inevitable in any surgery may not make up for having a vagina (and in this I'm not at all unhappy for waiting 15 years, a fully innervated clitoris wasn't an option back then). And yes, my future with my GF is less certain if I transition which I have to balance against being pretty sure not proceeding to GCS will leave *me* less happy which isn't going to bode well for the relationship.

I hate looking down at it, actually I guess I feel about my own <shenis> about the way I feel sexually toward men generally. I'm quite able to enjoy a penis, it's the only part of a male that I'm sexually moved by - my appreciation of the male form is pretty much academic (I can see that the form is attractive, just as I make some glass pieces that I know others will like and so I make them even though they do little for me; when I make art it's forms that move me).

There's no moving "too" fast, for better or worse I can afford this now and I may not be able to afford it if I postpone and then there's the fact that at 61 on my surgery date I'm still in very good physical shape and if I postpone it could take another 2-3 years to be ready again I'd be that much older and that much less time to enjoy being female.

I spent 6 months deciding to start medical transition and then a year putting the pieces in place knowing that once that was done I would then have the final decision in hand. That was preceded by 18 years of social transition and I feel pretty well grounded to be deciding.

I think the Robert Hunter of the Grateful Dead put it well

QuoteThe wheel is turning and you can't slow down.
You can't let go and you can't hold on.
You can't go back and you can't stand still.
If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will.

I'm 95% sure and I know I'd rather noodle this out now than on the way to the OR, still less after the procedure is done.

When I'm rock climbing or blowing glass, the working decisions are made in the moment, fast and the consequences are significant. Place protection when it's easy to, move fast over difficult terrain and as long as the protection was set well then a fall is just something that happens.

This is harder, I have time to second-guess.

There's a saying I like: Life is Not a Dress Rehearsal

Sometimes you just can't know, and you have to choose anyway, and not making a choice can be just as wrong as making one.

Personally I'd do it because why not? I can't see I'd regret it, and if I never had SRS I'd always wonder about it. I'd rather take the risk of regret than the certainty of always wondering and never knowing.

Quote from: Sophia Sage on December 28, 2016, 02:01:02 PM
If your GF longs for you to keep your current genitalia, she almost certainly engages in a bit of male gendering of you.  I would (and actually did eventually) find that completely intolerable.  Sexuality had nothing to do with it.

It's good, btw, that you continue to enjoy yourself sexually before surgery -- helps to keep the nerves and brain engaged. And it's pretty telling that you got off being touched "where my vagina would (will) be." 

I think you'll be getting surgery in April, and your GF won't be staying around much longer than a year.

Hmm, thanks Sophia - that last bit is a bit harsh but you've certainly got a grasp of the crux of my dilemma :-(.

My gf has only ever known me as trans. I took her on our first date wearing lingerie because I didn't ever want to pretend to be a guy in bed again. The person she loves is and always has been feminine brained and she likes the me of today that's developed over the 18 years we've been together better than the me that was just starting to find my way then.

And yes that gets cast against I have a penis and she likes it and we are both keenly aware that we don't know what comes out the other side.

I've had a lover who was a former lesbian, we have a friend who's been gay his whole adult life until he partnered with a woman I introduced him to. Etc, etc.

And knowing I'm flexible enough, I also know if she decides to end the relationship I can deal with it. I decided I could cross that bridge before I decided to begin transition ... well and I made it the night of our first date, just the stakes and time already invested is greater now :-)

Quote from: AnonyMs on December 28, 2016, 02:39:04 PM
There's a saying I like: Life is Not a Dress Rehearsal

Sometimes you just can't know, and you have to choose anyway, and not making a choice can be just as wrong as making one.

Personally I'd do it because why not? I can't see I'd regret it, and if I never had SRS I'd always wonder about it. I'd rather take the risk of regret than the certainty of always wondering and never knowing.

Thanks 'Nony I like the saying (live by it) and I'm also biased to think necks don't serve a purpose if they never get stuck out.

Pre surgical jitters? I had them up to the moment they knocked me out. I heard of people changing their mind in the hospital just before surgery. If you have a therapist, this would be a good time for a little talk, not so much to re evaluate your decision but to deal with the fear of making a mistake. If you could remove the fear you have, the decision would be easy but we are human and we are facing the unknown.

As for me, the fear and the jitters were gone the moment I woke up after surgery and they have never returned. It's not an easy decision but the people who concern me most are the people who aren't questioning before surgery. They may not have taken everything into consideration.

Dena, thanks you were one of the women I was quoting :-).

And yes I have a very close relationship with my therapist, she happens to be out of town for the holidays 'til next week and it's not like it's that much of a rush. And we've been analyzing this perhaps ad-nauseam.

And the part that's about my GF, every time a new stone drops into place she panics and then slowly settles into whatever decision is right for her and that's just how she works. Of course the panic that came along with my getting a firm surgery date wasn't fun but I've been expecting it because this is how she deals with things. The point is it's not under my control and I do have to consider it.

SadieBlake,
I wrote a response on your quoted thread on the sexuality forum.

I fear for the survival of the current relationship with your GF in any case as the transition proceeds, with or without GCS.  With GCS, I suspect the process will be accelerated, functionally the death knell for the relationship.

I hope you can clarify your needs and find a path that will give you long term solution and happiness.

Steph

I have a couple of really beautiful TGs who have opted to keep their penis, one will be in Ms Tiffiny World for ladyboys. When we talk about this,  it is the fear of no orgasms and sex drive. But as we dig deeper its also the fear of surgery, which is strange as they have implants and FFS already. Then they express the fear from watching some friends and many self medicate and have wild mood swings.

I have a friend who almost stopped the surgery because she met a female that felt special. But wanted her not to have srs. She chose to have the surgery and found that that special person was not so and that she was using it to relieve her dysphoria.

Its all very personal, and we have this wonderful ability to rationalize our decisions. Please review carefully any decision. Maybe srs is no for you, but I can vouch that all my tg friends experience fantastic orgasms and none have regrets. So that fear can be laid to rest.

I talked to the GF Friday and simply broached how long sex with a <shenis> has been fundamentally uncomfortable for me. She got that and I think putting in brass-tacks which is a conversation she's been shying away from. I think it's like pulling off a bandaid and maybe I should have gotten to it a bit earlier.

She's clear that she wants to have me in her life and we very much agree that we need to be open to what may come. She's said, and I agree that we will have to be open to what comes after and both be flexible. I think fully understanding that I don't think I can continue and that I've tried for a long time to, partly for her makes it possible for her to see how a future could work.

The nut of her response still included "we're poly and that makes it easier". She gets a kind of sex from her other (infrequent but long-standing) lovers that I've been drifting away from for a long time. And evidence that she really enjoys that in the moment notwithstanding, I believe her when she says she still prefers sex with me.

I've also learned that actions speak louder than words and whatever the difficulties we've had traversing this ground, her actions say we've gotten closer. She's more likely than in the past to help me with fashion, hair and makeup advice and we're simply closer which I think simply speaks to the fact that the person she cares for has been feminine brained from the start.

In terms of taking the last steps across this personal Rubicon, my therapist is back in town this week and we will have plenty to talk about as all of these bricks have fallen into place in a gap in our schedule.

I believe I will decide to proceed and that my primary relationship will survive. I may also feel better about seeking out new relationships for myself. I've only had one new sex partner in more than 10 years now and a mutually lesbian relationship might be a good thing for me.

Sadie,
   I only wish you the best. It sounds like things are going in a good direction for you. Nothing in this life is guaranteed. You could have bad or good things happen no matter how you go.
   Dena said she worries more about people who have no doubt about surgery. I fall into this category, I think. For some folks, maybe they haven't considered all the possibilities. I know what can happen. I had FFS and dealt with a pretty severe complication. I also know that the lower surgery can potentially result in a less than functioning conclusion. I have done the male sexual experience (this means with penis) all my life. It is mentally painful. I have decided that even if my surgery leaves me with a poor result, it  can not be worse than what I have. I am at peace with my decision for surgery. I guess extreme dysphoria can be an advantage sometimes. It makes the decision making process a lot easier than being on the fence.
   As for your relationship, I would never predict where it would head. I don't know either of you. I will say, if it is a good relationship, it is worth fighting for. Sometimes it takes hard work to make it work. Bottom line is that if you are not happy with yourself, what good is that relationship. It's like building a tall building on sand. Sooner or later it will crumble. You are smart to be honest with her. It is only fair to her and it shows respect for her.
Monica

Dena really hit this on the nose. It's normal to have second thoughts. Like with Dena once all was done, I haven't thought twice about it It was the right decision for me. Hugs
Mariah

Quote from: Dena on December 28, 2016, 05:03:11 PM
Pre surgical jitters? I had them up to the moment they knocked me out. I heard of people changing their mind in the hospital just before surgery. If you have a therapist, this would be a good time for a little talk, not so much to re evaluate your decision but to deal with the fear of making a mistake. If you could remove the fear you have, the decision would be easy but we are human and we are facing the unknown.

As for me, the fear and the jitters were gone the moment I woke up after surgery and they have never returned. It's not an easy decision but the people who concern me most are the people who aren't questioning before surgery. They may not have taken everything into consideration.

In my case when my wife told me she was getting a lawyer for divorce when I told her I was coming out and expressing at work the next day. I called Dr. McGinn's office the following Monday to schedule GCS. I had previously scheduled and orchi because my wife would "allow that" and remain married.

During the 1 year RLE (GCS scheduled 1 year 2 days after expressing) I knew I needed GCS and I knew no one would see it but me but I wondered how I would feel afterwards. Would I think I made a wrong decision.

I had FFS 8 weeks prior to GCS and had the same thought. How would I feel afterwards and the world sees my face and it is a one way procedure. I knew prior I really needed FFS and felt I would feel the same afterwards but what if. Also, with FFS everyone would know I am trans, no going back and hiding.

I am really glad I had FFS and GCS. I had no way of knowing this before I had the procedures. FFS was much more difficult than GCS. I had difficulty when I first saw my face; there were so many stitches and I looked very different.

GCS is a big step. It is normal to have fears about so many things, the operation, complications and functionally, let alone dilating and relationships. I thought I had accepted myself before GCS. After GCS I really knew it was right and I accept who I am, it feels right.

Thanks girls, yes I'm sure I'm going to be fine and I am convinced that I could be ok either way. I'm also 99% certain my quality of life is going to be better with primary sex characteristics changed to match my image and sexuality.

I think another piece of my GF's reservations have fallen in to place, I hadn't been thinking about it lately but a couple of weeks ago we were out with friends and an old friend (one of the first trans / pansexual people I ever knew) mentioned my transition and my GF's best friend was there and was completely surprised by the news. I was equally surprised that the GF hadn't ever mentioned this to someone she has leaned on for friendship for a long time.

This reinforces my belief that transphobia is a big piece of her resistance along with a healthy dose of homophobia -- it's not that she's never had sex with women, she has. Rather i think she doesn't want to be associated with these labels. This falls in line with whenever we've talked about it the subject of not wanting to take this up with her family has been at the forefront of her discussion.

Anyhow, it's easier for me to put that in a box of understanding and setting aside from my consideration. Addressing transition has certainly rooted out some of my own internalized phobia and she's entitled to have her own, but I'm also far less likely to base my decisions on that. I'm ok with having a firewall around not being out with people who have no need to know (her family) or who are potentially dangerous to be out with (my family). These aren't too difficult to obviate given I don't generally pass.

And goodness, I can't wait to talk with my therapist.

I'm 4 days from surgery and procrastinated everything to the last minute because I'm not sure.  The status quo has been my safe place, but not necessarily the most fulfilling place.  Breast surgery and minor facial surgery did not phase me, but vaginoplasty scares me.  Will I be happier? Will I miss my male part? Surgery is a major commitment.  Perfectly normal to have fears and doubts.  Don't be too hard on yourself.  Thoughts with you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sadie,

I have just read through this post and a lot of your other linked post, and honestly, I think you know what you have to do.

I have no new insights to add, the girls that spoke up before me hit everything that I was thinking. But, the one thing that my gut tells me, and maybe it is because I am projecting my own experiences on the situation, but since you are asking for feedback, here goes..

Yes, I agree, without your 'male part', your relationship with your GF will change into something even less committed, and may even end, and it may end even sooner than 1 year..

These are just my thoughts, I cannot KNOW the future, but I can see patterns, and extrapolate probabilities. Even as a 'trans' person, you having a 'male part' defines your relationship in your GF's mind, you have no control over that fact, and once it is gone, she will drift away. Just my opinion, based on instinct, experience, and probabilities.

From my own experience, even though I had broken up with my ex two years earlier, and even though she had a boyfriend, and even though I was already interested in men, there was still a 'something different' about me that kept her 'connected' to me in some way. Literally days after my surgery, that ended, and I was now no longer the creature that she had loved, I was now the woman that had killed her man. The death of my penis, marked the death of our connection. My ex also resisted my transition, but she also was willing to make accommodations, as long as I remained within the bounds of her comfort zone. Once I was without any maleness, I was dead to her.

Yes, I know, my thing with my ex was between us, and is not you and your GF. But, the parallels are there. It is about her, not you, and if you are to be true to YOU, it will cost you HER.

I hope I am wrong. But I also hope you proceed entirely based on YOUR needs, since her needs run counter to yours...

Just my two cents worth, and I know I am not saying anything that hasn't been said, nor anything you haven't likely already considered. But, hey, you asked, and i just got here, so there ya go!

I hope you have a great trip and an easy recovery, hun!

;-) Missy

Quote from: MissGendered on January 22, 2017, 08:27:38 PM
Sadie,

I have just read through this post and a lot of your other linked post, and honestly, I think you know what you have to do.
....
Yes, I agree, without your 'male part', your relationship with your GF will change into something even less committed, and may even end, and it may end even sooner than 1 year..

These are just my thoughts, I cannot KNOW the future, but I can see patterns, and extrapolate probabilities. Even as a 'trans' person, you having a 'male part' defines your relationship in your GF's mind, you have no control over that fact, and once it is gone, she will drift away. Just my opinion, based on instinct, experience, and probabilities.

From my own experience, even though I had broken up with my ex two years earlier, and even though she had a boyfriend, and even though I was already interested in men, there was still a 'something different' about me that kept her 'connected' to me in some way. Literally days after my surgery, that ended, and I was now no longer the creature that she had loved, I was now the woman that had killed her man. The death of my penis, marked the death of our connection. My ex also resisted my transition, but she also was willing to make accommodations, as long as I remained within the bounds of her comfort zone. Once I was without any maleness, I was dead to her.

Yes, I know, my thing with my ex was between us, and is not you and your GF. But, the parallels are there. It is about her, not you, and if you are to be true to YOU, it will cost you HER.

I hope I am wrong. But I also hope you proceed entirely based on YOUR needs, since her needs run counter to yours...

Just my two cents worth, and I know I am not saying anything that hasn't been said, nor anything you haven't likely already considered. But, hey, you asked, and i just got here, so there ya go!

I hope you have a great trip and an easy recovery, hun!

;-) Missy

Actually no, she sees me as feminine and likes living with a female brained person. I'm not sure what you mean by "even less committed" while we don't have a piece of paper, I can safely say in 18 years our relationship has only continued to deepen. I've been there for her across a variety of crises and now it's her turn and she's shouldering the parts i need. She's committed to coming to SF to help with recovery and she's being mindful of my need to save every penny possible.

The most positive part is that she's been clear that she wants this relationship to continue whether we're sexual or not and again actions speak louder than words and her actions have all been toward understanding.

I made note of this elsewhere, we attended an annual queer friendly sex play party just a couple weeks ago. This time I really was unable to get in the flow and we had to dress and go outside for a bit to talk. She was right there with me and the wave of dysphoria that had hit me dissipated and we were able to go back and have some fun. The highlights of the event for me were being visibly accepted by women there and participating in a mini erotic workshop that was all women (two trans women included) and I really felt welcomed there. The other great bit was seeing a new style of strapon harness in use that really made me look forward to post op sexuality.

My partner really met me in all of this. I think she's finally realized that I truly can't go on without GCS and I have to say, I was surprised at my own dysphoria coming up.

I'm going to see Dr Wittenberg in April, working on a combination of airbnb and friends I can stay with and plane tickets. I'm pretty sure our relationship is going to be fine and I'm also thinking I may be feeling better seeking out some other sex partners for myself. I've played with a couple of lesbians over the years and it's always been wonderful, I have to think when my bits are fixed that's gonna work better.

Quote from: SadieBlake on January 24, 2017, 06:20:55 AM
Actually no, she sees me as feminine and likes living with a female brained person. I'm not sure what you mean by "even less committed" while we don't have a piece of paper, I can safely say in 18 years our relationship has only continued to deepen. I've been there for her across a variety of crises and now it's her turn and she's shouldering the parts i need. She's committed to coming to SF to help with recovery and she's being mindful of my need to save every penny possible.

I'm going to see Dr Wittenberg in April, working on a combination of airbnb and friends I can stay with and plane tickets. I'm pretty sure our relationship is going to be fine and I'm also thinking I may be feeling better seeking out some other sex partners for myself. I've played with a couple of lesbians over the years and it's always been wonderful, I have to think when my bits are fixed that's gonna work better.

Sadie,

You know your situation better than anybody. Perhaps the whole poly thing eludes me, and I have no way to process how that plays into your future with her. By 'less committed', I was speaking from my monogamously-minded perspective. And, yes, my ex was actually ok with me having a feminine mind, and body, too, as long as I wasn't actually without a certain 'difference', but that is beside the point. I didn't mean to offend you or upset you, it was poor judgment on my part for wading into this conversation, and I apologize, I should have just been supportive without offering my opinion in this very personal and private matter, especially since polyamory is something outside my own personal experience.

Best wishes and kind regards..

Missy