Most Americans don't believe being transgender is natural, study finds

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/01/02/most-americans-dont-believe-being-transgender-is-natural-study-finds/

Pink News/By Benjamin Butterworth 2nd January 2017, 9:55 AM

"A startling new survey has revealed the social attitudes of Americans to transgender rights.
The polling by the Williams Institute and Ipsos surveyed people in 23 countries about their attitudes, including in the US.


Less than half of American respondents said they believe being transgender is a 'natural occurrence'."

Most Americans don't believe in evolution either.  For various reasons, American tend to be highly scientifically illiterate and take pride in being so.


It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves

I could have told you that without even needing a poll. It's why I treasure stealthy living instead of wearing the purple doo dad symbol on my sleeves. Oh and that non-acceptance cuts right across all social, political and economic boundaries. One is just as likely to be insulted and rejected by a white upper crust liberal as a coal miner in West Virginia. The only way to change minds is one at a time and it's going to take a long long time.

It was a poorly worded question. In most cases I don't believe it's natural either. I believe it's the result of poor product testing, medical hubris or other human error. That does not mean that we're crazy or broken.

I think natural means an inherent rather than chosen condition.


It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves

Quote from: Zumbagirl on January 03, 2017, 05:35:42 PM
I could have told you that without even needing a poll. It's why I treasure stealthy living instead of wearing the purple doo dad symbol on my sleeves. Oh and that non-acceptance cuts right across all social, political and economic boundaries. One is just as likely to be insulted and rejected by a white upper crust liberal as a coal miner in West Virginia. The only way to change minds is one at a time and it's going to take a long long time.

Alas, stealthy living isn't an option for those of us who don't have passing privilege but have to be full time for our sanity and and to meet requirements for our continued medical care

The full-time non-passing folks just have to work at convincing others that we are OK, won't hurt them or their children, and should be permitted to live.  Someone has to do it.  Think of the trans children!  (OK, oxymoron there.) I'd like the next generation of transgender persons to be able to grow up without fear and abuse, without having to hide themselves away.

I'd love others to recognize that we are human beings.


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Actually reading the results shows that things are not as grim as the article makes out. While the "positive" numbers are not as high as one might like, the "negative" numbers are mostly quite low in comparison. On the whole, the results are fairly positive.

Quote from: Dee Marshall on January 03, 2017, 06:42:49 PM
It was a poorly worded question. In most cases I don't believe it's natural either. I believe it's the result of poor product testing, medical hubris or other human error. That does not mean that we're crazy or broken.

You'd be running against medical science on this one.. Yes, drugs such as DES are suspected in some cases of trans people and there are also probably similar drugs that did similar. Medical hubris? How do you figure that one? And I'm not sure how "human error" could be a cause at all.

I have a medical condition most likely caused by a malfunctioning endocrine system in my mother - the science supports this.

Oh, and on the medical testing thing, just how long are the pharma companies supposed to test for?

Medical hubris was medical science being absolutely sure that DES (and similar drugs) wouldn't cause any harm because they "knew" that male and female brains are identical. Human error is similar.

There seem to be more trans people than ever before. Historically 0.6% seems a little high for our condition to go unremarked until the 20th century.

The wording was unfortunately vague. Maybe they could ask if being transgender is genetic, as opposed to being a choice.

Speaking of which, I've mentioned before, a close self-declared liberal relative with both gay and transgender friends who I had always considered an ally, suddenly jumped me out for mentioning something about my "male side," screaming that transgender people were just whiners with "bad personalities" who feel they are misunderstood by society.

She could be having PMS, or just had a fight with a SO, but I was shocked. If someone that vocally liberal about trans and gay rights could say something like that, I suppose one doesn't really know what people are thinking.

Medical 'science' back in the 1950s largely assumed the placenta was a magic filter, and drugs in the mother's system couldn't cross the placenta to the fetus.   Oops.

Being transgender is not likely to be genetic, or a purely genetic issue.  It is very likely the result of an epigenetic event, something 'turning genes on or off' during fetal development, and altering the expression of the genetic codes that drive the formation and functioning of various tissues.

Asking the public to understand any of these concepts simply won't work.  They are fairly hard to express at a fifth grade reading level, and the American distrust of science and scientists definitely won't help.   You've got to know your target audience.  Mel Brooks expressed this best in "Blazing Saddles": "You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons."

It would probably be better to connect with the public at the same level as the various anti-trans campaigns use; emotional appeal backed by perceived authority.

Anyone know a solid authoritarian figurehead with close transgender relatives they care for?  That would be an ideal spokesperson.


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Now my OWN words are unfortunately vague.

By genetic, I meant determined in the womb, during fetal development. THAT should cover it.

In MY case, my brother had been born 11 months before I was born, so I apparently picked up his male hormones. This is common in animals also.

And yes, stress and drugs can also affect hormone release. But I don't think people with alternative gender identities and orientations are defective..although I suppose it does cause them a lot of distress.

In my case, I don't want to be either cis female or cis male. I see conventional gender binary people as having fixed perspectives.
I like gender mixes and variety.
Even transgender people who now identify as only one gender still have seen another perspective.

Quote from: Dee Marshall on January 03, 2017, 09:33:19 PM
Medical hubris was medical science being absolutely sure that DES (and similar drugs) wouldn't cause any harm because they "knew" that male and female brains are identical. Human error is similar.

The drug passed FDA (and other) testing.. Just how long are these studies supposed to run? And how would you test for this situation given the medical science of the 1930's?  There's no hubris here, just decisions made on the best science available at the time. 

QuoteThere seem to be more trans people than ever before. Historically 0.6% seems a little high for our condition to go unremarked until the 20th century.

Trans people have existed all through recorded history.. And probably since homo sapiens evolved.

According to a Harris poll in 2013, 42% of Americans believe in ghosts and 57% believe in the devil:

http://www.upi.com/Health_News/2013/12/22/US-belief-in-God-down-belief-in-theory-of-evolution-up/24081387762886/

This is NOT a particularly enlightened or sophisticated country.

Quote from: stephaniec on January 03, 2017, 05:14:10 PM
Most Americans don't believe being transgender is natural, study finds

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/01/02/most-americans-dont-believe-being-transgender-is-natural-study-finds/

Pink News/By Benjamin Butterworth 2nd January 2017, 9:55 AM

"A startling new survey has revealed the social attitudes of Americans to transgender rights.
The polling by the Williams Institute and Ipsos surveyed people in 23 countries about their attitudes, including in the US.


Less than half of American respondents said they believe being transgender is a 'natural occurrence'."

Most human beings on the planet are of normal average intelligence which isn't impressive at about 90 and certainly not enough to comprehend anything as complex gender dysphoria so it's no surprise that so many people don't believe it. 

Interesting reading through the PDF file. The US, overall, comes 9th out of 23 countries when all the questions asked are factored in to a final score. Only just below Australia.

Food for thought.

This thread is proof that democracy is not a viable political idea.

Most close minded people have so small brains, they call themselves open, free and not barbaric like those in mideast, in reality many many are not so open minded at all.
Openminded people never stalk others, never interfere and they mind their own business.
Why should it be a bother, what others do. Only the close minded , it matters to them.
As long no killing or stealing or hurting others.

  Most closed minded people were raised that way! However, more people got that way with their own experiences. My brother got that way, even though our mom was open in her thinking, even though she was a fiscal and political conservative. Her open mindedness helped her when she became a unit manager for a large corporation. She focused on her employees' talent, not their sexual orientation. She even had a cross-dresser in her unit back in the 1980s when that was frowned upon.
  Things like DES given to pregnant women is not natural, but induced. That has caused havoc on those of us that are affected by that drug. More chances of reproductive system cancers, behavioral problems, fertility problems and the seeming increase of transgender trending that no one involved in the administering of that drug would admit or don't want to know of this due to the highly potential legal ramifications this already has been done and would cause.

Joelene

Joelene your mother sounds great.