http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/08/health/young-obese-and-getting-weight-loss-surgery.html

One percent to 2 percent of all weight-loss, or bariatric, operations are on patients under 21, but studies are under way to gauge the outcomes of surgery on children as young as 12.

https://www.nasw.org/users/Katwong/publications/mocoherald/fastfood.html

Last week, a statewide survey revealed that 71 percent of California high school districts serve fast foods including pizza, hamburgers, soda and french fries for student lunches and that those menu items - which are high in fat, salt and sugar and offer little nutrition - make up 70 percent of all school food sales.More than half of the 171 districts also reported carrying brand-name products from chains such as Taco Bell and Domino's Pizza.

McDonalds and KFC are in there too. I've seen it on a documentary.

The USDA guidelines says students are required at least 2 vegetables at lunch. Refined tomato sauce, french fries and pizza count as vegetables under those same guidelines.

So let me get this straight. America would rather feed kids fast food junk and then study operating on children's stomachs, and actually dissect their stomachs when they get older, instead of saying no to big business and  not setting them up for dietary failure.

They'd rather pay for surgery than good food.

Good grief. 

The disassembly and destruction of one's digestive system for the purposes of getting to a "healthy weight" seems a perverted path to me.  I know 5 or 6 people personally who have had bariatric surgery, and not a single one could be remotely considered a success.  I have personally been under 220 lbs for about one month in the last 20 years, which was immediately following my open-heart surgery, and at which time I couldn't hold down a meal.  I had a few people complimented me on how good I looked, and I told them that all it took was throwing up every single morsel of food I ate. 

I believe we need to quit vilifying fat as an evil and as an indicator of ill health.  Instead, as JMJW alludes to, we ought to encourage people to be active and to consume foods that are good for them.  In doing so, I expect we'd have quite a different landscape. 

Erin

The problem is that unless people are forced to do something, a lot of them won't take the encouragement. And I'm honestly against some kind of nanny state interfering in people's lives and telling them what they can and can't eat. Like in Japan where employers will routinely measure their employees' waistlines and order them to lose weight if they think they need it. Or in UK where govt and doctors think a tax on junk food would actually work (it wouldn't)

People are apparently biologically predisposed to eating too much fat and carbs if they are available, so I guess the only thing to be done is to control corporations' use of things like corn syrup and adding too much salt and sugar to things. People are still free to make their own food as they want, but at least convenience food which a lot of people consume would be of better quality.

I give presentations of Trans 101 and once had a guy come up afterwards to tell me of his "epiphany".  Seems he had bariatric surgery and could relate to people like me who have had what some consider radical medical and surgical intervention to live as our true selves.  He indicated that beneath his extra weight was his image of the man he wanted to become. 

Isn't it funny that we would gladly assist people, even kids, to have bariatric surgery while making any trans people jump through hoops to get the care we need.  Do kids and adults having this surgery need the written approval of several mental health practitioners?

I also agree that our intensely idealized images of thin people is another disservice.  I am fat and curvy, healthy and fit.  Today's diet dogmas often becomes tomorrow's dog crap list.  Remember carbo loading for marathoners?

Corporations keep going on about "parental responsibility" in order to avoid government sanctions on their practices. They then make sure to get themselves into schools where they know parents aren't present. So of course the child instantly goes for the junk, as their marketing can now work unopposed. The bottom line is the nanny state arguments shouldn't apply here because kids should eat what they're told to eat. Period. I remember as a kid I wished I could be a grownup so I could eat McDonalds morning noon and night. These kids stand almost no chance of getting active as you need the right nutrition to be motivated to move about. Fast food is addictive by design. So it's like pushing drugs to kids in every way that counts. It's no different to cigarette vendors in schools.

Fast food and ready made stuff is the culprit there. We need to get back to basics with food.


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Portion control seems to be an issue in some places.. I mean, I've seen meals that were large enough to feed me for 2 or 3 days - being eaten all at once..

As for bariatric surgeries, it depends on the procedure and the individual.

And no, being morbidly obese is not healthy.. The extra weight causes undue strain on hips, knees ank ankles - leading to a need for surgical replacement. I'm not going to go in to cardiac and neuro issues..

Carb loading for marathoners actually works though.


It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves

Quote from: Deborah on January 04, 2017, 05:37:03 PM
Carb loading for marathoners actually works though.


It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves

Oh heck yes!  The point I was badly trying to make is that there have been all sorts of diets and proscriptions for best health and longevity with more than one way to live and eat well.  With what I have too readily eaten through life it is amazing to be alive

I consider being vegan or vegetarian as moral imperatives to feed a burgeoning humanity and I take small steps in that direction... but am seemingly not ready to give up my yummy baby girl comfort food

Quote from: JMJW on January 04, 2017, 02:23:20 PM
Corporations keep going on about "parental responsibility" in order to avoid government sanctions on their practices. They then make sure to get themselves into schools where they know parents aren't present. So of course the child instantly goes for the junk, as their marketing can now work unopposed. The bottom line is the nanny state arguments shouldn't apply here because kids should eat what they're told to eat. Period. I remember as a kid I wished I could be a grownup so I could eat McDonalds morning noon and night. These kids stand almost no chance of getting active as you need the right nutrition to be motivated to move about. Fast food is addictive by design. So it's like pushing drugs to kids in every way that counts. It's no different to cigarette vendors in schools.

But kids don't eat what they're told. As a kid I hardly got any money off my folks ever to blow on junk food, but if I did, I would immediately go out and get as much candy and dodgy corn snacks as I could lay my hands on for the money. Whenever the parents went shopping for the week or month they would literally have to hide the good stuff from me because I would raid it in the middle of the night. My friend's father owned a shop and I could always get stuff from him, too. They couldn't keep me from finding my way to junk food no matter what they did, and as a kid I didn't care whatsoever if they said it was bad for you.

How exactly does a parent deal with that, when the kid's not under your roof all the time. I have no idea, other than to remove vending machines from schools and make the options available better.

I do agree though that sugar, fat and salt become either addictive or encourage people to seek food out that has more of it because after a while food with less of it in will taste worse from expectation.

When I cook, it's steamed, microwaved or done in a crock pot. I use no salt, no sugar and no oil. I use no salad creams or mayonnaise. I do buy bread and black bean burgers. Both of those have extra fats, salts and sugars in them.


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Fat is necessary in a healthy diet and salt is not detrimental except in a few people.  For those of us on spiro, salt is necessary.

The real problem is sugar.  Every processed food we buy and eat is loaded with it.  Sugar alone is the primary culprit behind many health problems facing the world today, including obesity.  Greatly reducing the amount of sugar eaten each day will solve much of the problem.  The easy way to do that is to eat real food instead of all the packaged crap that people eat today.


It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves

It's the combination of fat and sugar, or, sugar and more sugar.

Fat on its own without sugar or carbs doesn't get stored but used and it's not bad. But eat sugar/carbs as well and it all piles on somewhere else like the ass or the insides of arteries.

Sugar and more sugar all the time leads to diabetes and metabolic issues.

Sugar being everywhere is definitely more of a problem than fat being in stuff.

I noticed that UK ready meals and chips seem to have reduced the amount of salt in their products... until later this year when potato chips started tasting super salty again. Salt definitely makes things taste better but I still think they add way too much of it to most foods here. Especially the "gourmet" stuff that's supposed to be classier food - the color coded warning labels are nearly always red on those for salt and fat and they DO taste better.

The future is going to be a lot of people having to watch everything they eat, and it's not something anyone wants to do. But I have to do it, so it's not impossible. With kids, who aren't at the point of realizing what they need to do for health and to extend their life, it's probably always going to be more difficult with all the things on offer they could consume. I suppose if parents instil the importance of it from a young age good habits might rub off on them but these days parents are busy worrying about paying their mortgages and not what the kids eat while they're not around

The problems gotten bad enough to issue an ultimatum to these kids. Eat well or starve. I know in England, no matter your weight, in primary school they'd take the snacks off you if you had them.

If all else fails they do consider surgery though

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17857375