Hi Anja,

I've seen your profile picture once, bit clearer than it is now, and I thought you are a beautiful woman already. 

I think a lip lift will be good for any woman. Especially if we're aging. The older woman get, the more it drops. I'm 39 years old, and I think the lip lift turned me into 29. It's a youthful procedure.

Try this:

Get a eyeliner pencil and lay it across your lip. Then "roll" the pencil, simply turn it around a bit. It should lift the lip for about 3-4mm. Of course, the nose looks weird now, but it's the best way I found to simulate it.

I only send pictures via PM - not sure if I have sent you one already. Getting FFS is not an easy decitions of me as things are not looking that bad. So I considered lip lift as a low risk feminizing option. Not sure who does these things - plastic surgeons of all sorts, but I guess they should have a background in FFS somewhat to make sure that the lip is shaped more feminine and not just lifted regularly? Or is the procedure 100% the smae as with any other woman? Then tere would not even be a need to mention anything about trans stuff - I hate to mention that to doctors...

It's the same for us and cis-woman. Especially older cis-woman. In almost all woman the lip will drop with age. In men too. But in men it's not a problem. Lip lift can be good or bad, it's an operation with only two outcomes. Whit a lip lift it's better to be conservative: not too much removal. One can always have another lift, but when tissue is gone, it can't be put back. So my surgeon said he was only going to remove 3-5mm, this was decided while he was operating me, so that he could look. Also, he needed to make sure that my mouth could close. If you remove to much, it's difficult to close the mouth. Also, removing too much can make the lower lip corners droop, making you look sad.

Indeed, it's not a simple operation.

I also analyzed FFS to death, but eventually I had to make a choice, jumped in and went for it. Kinda like a roller coaster: I let go, can't control it anyway.

Yes sometimes I believe i just have to go for the FFS thing as otherwise it will bug me for more years to come, lol - I kind of have one little hope to get out of it by doing a few procedures like lip lift and convince myself that this is enough and I have done something after all, and then maybe able to let go of it.

When I tried the thing with the toothpick, I saw that the corners of my mouth looked more sad. Thats not good then. Is there no way to avoid this?

I went for a long walk today. It has snowed here, and I love snow. 

Just back and feeling refreshed. I spent two days inside because of the lip lift, and the other full FFS. Swelling has gone down a bit. What I see in the mirror is stunning, and I am extremely happy with the result. It exceeded my expectations. When I walked around, I finally felt FREE! whereas before I would stare around and down, right now I look straight forward and am super confident. For me, the FFS is a success.

I feel no dysphoria anymore when I look in the mirror. I even begin to like mirrors. And I am not even healed yet... whoohoo!

Here's another tip: buy a baby toothbrush. One of those things you truly need, also good after rhinoplasty. It's good for the upper teeth and doesn't move the lip around like a regular brush.

Quote from: 2cherry on January 07, 2017, 02:46:04 PM
I went for a long walk today. It has snowed here, and I love snow. 

Just back and feeling refreshed. I spent two days inside because of the lip lift, and the other full FFS. Swelling has gone down a bit. What I see in the mirror is stunning, and I am extremely happy with the result. It exceeded my expectations. When I walked around, I finally felt FREE! whereas before I would stare around and down, right now I look straight forward and am super confident. For me, the FFS is a success.

I feel no dysphoria anymore when I look in the mirror. I even begin to like mirrors. And I am not even healed yet... whoohoo!

That really is a pleasure to hear : )

Short scoring of my FFS  in order of importance:


Most profound change:

1. Forehead reconstruction + orbita shaving
2. Rhinoplasty
3. Brow lift
4. Lip lift
5. Zygoma/Cheek
6. Hairline lowering
7. Chin
8. Jaw


What I personally like best when looking at myself:

1. Forehead reconstruction + orbita shaving
2. Lip lift
3. Rhinoplasty
4. Brow lift
5. Zygoma/Cheek
6. Chin
7. Jaw
8. Hairline lowering

What others like/notice:

1. Forehead reconstruction + orbita shaving
2. Rhinoplasty
3. Lip lift
4. Zygoma/Cheek
5. Brow lift
6. Jaw
7. Chin
8. Hairline lowering

Worth all the trouble? 1 star: somewhat. 5 stars: definitely:

- Forehead reconstruction + orbita shaving: 5/5 stars
- Rhinoplasty: 5/5 stars
- Lip lift: 5/5 stars
- Brow lift: 4/5 stars
- Zygoma/Cheek: 3/5 stars
- Chin: 3/5 stars
- Jaw: 2/5 stars
- Hairline lowering: 1/5 stars

Level of discomfort/healing

- Forehead reconstruction + orbita shaving: forehead numbness is annoying
- Rhinoplasty: annoying and painful
- Lip lift: somewhat annoying
- Brow lift: nothing remarkable
- Zygoma/Cheek: nothing remarkable
- Chin: nothing remarkable, but inside sutures can be annoying to heal
- Jaw:  nothing remarkable, but inside sutures can be annoying to heal
- Hairline lowering: annoying numbness on top of head, scar shooting pains.

Debilitating 1 star: somewhat, 5 stars: massive.

- Forehead reconstruction + orbita shaving: 3/5
- Rhinoplasty: 4/5
- Lip lift: 2/5
- Brow lift: 0/5
- Zygoma/Cheek: 0/5
- Chin: nothing remarkable, 2/5 (food intake)
- Jaw:  nothing remarkable, 2/5 (food intake)
- Hairline lowering: 2/5

Some notes:

Hairline: scar is the main issue here. Coronal incision would be better, but can't do that if you want to lower the hairline. I don't think the hairline is that important at all. If you don't have to, avoid it.

Jaw: I don't notice it much when I look at myself. I do see it in pictures. Still a bit swollen, I might even gotten used to it already. Not sure.

Chin: it's okay, good but not spectacular as well. It's shorter by 3-5 mm, wich does pull things together. Especially with the lip lift!

I guess it's the complete package though. 

Sometimes I only doubt the hairline lowering, because of the scar. But I needed it. I don't regret any procedure, so that's a big relief.

I more or less agree.

Well, except for the hairline.  The hairline really depends on your hair and how you wear it.  If anything, I think the shape of the hairline is more important than it's actual position.  Some shapes are decidedly masculine, some are decidedly feminine, and very few are truly ambiguous. 

As to the scar, it can be obscured with permanent makeup tattoo and/or hair transplants.  There is something liberating about being able to pull your hair all the way back...

I also have been less satisfied with my hairline after FFS, but i manage.  usually this means not tying my hair back or wearing a cap.  So i am going to see Dr Mayer later this year on this.  His flap technique is intriguing.  I am hoping for a more feminine hairline.

I am also going to do some jaw work, the other area of my FFS that has always made me self conscious.  oh the things we do for beauty. 

-Sarah

I'm not so sure this is all done in the name of beauty, Sarah.  Not to say beauty isn't woven into the mix, but I think a lot of my... vanity... is wrapped up in the idea of coming across as natural rather than artificial.

Hmm.  Perhaps the word I'm really looking for is "authentic."  The real deal. 

Reminds me of the conversations about eidos I've been having recently...

Yeah, I am done with surgeries. 

It was a very humbling experience, and I am tired of getting surgeries. I know I will never be young and pretty again, that time is simply lost... However, I think I look good for a close to 40 year old woman. Sometimes I forget I am almost 40. I certainly don't feel like it. But I have to keep in mind that at this age, things are not the same.

My initial goal was to be able to pass, to be at peace, in my own skin and walking around. I don't want to be noticed, stand out. I think I reached that goal right now. So that is where I stop. It's tempting to aim for more beauty, and have another procedure. But I am truly tired of having surgery, healing and what not.

I have to accept that this is the most feminine I can get, within normal ranges, and without the obvious "plastic" face.

Here's another tip for a better lip lift result.

I taped it, so that there are no forces pulling the scar open as it heals. I used regular masking tape, but you can also use sports tape. This way you can eat/drink without worrying if it will droop and create a wider scar. Also a good way to secure it when asleep. I don't feel it at all.

I came to this, because I noticed that when I move my top lip down, it yanks at the scar a tiny bit. Sure, it's sutured like crazy, a 100 stitches I believe, but I noticed tiny gaps that pull down here. The forces are huge on the muscles. So just to be sure I tape it for a few days so the collagen gets a chance to create a tight bridge and close it with minimal scarring (we're a great team, me, my fibroblasts, my macrophages and myself).



The brown/red color is betadine.  I apply it once a day, and after that I put the vaseline on it. There is a lot of snot that drools, and it's full of bacteria. This area needs to be kept spankin' clean. I still do the salt water washes 2 times a day too. It's impossible to blow the nose right now, let alone pick it, so it feels stuffed from time to time. The salt water washes help. Alcohol kills cells, and peroxide creates free radicals. So it's best to just use a salty substance, table salt or betadine. Vaseline will apply negative water pressure, which triggers the skin to heal and also hydrates a very tiny bit by preventing water loss. (water can't penetrate skin, only the incision) Never let a scab form here.

Sorry for the weird angle, my nose looks huge with this lens distortion lol.  again, I hate photographs as they distort everything.

Yes Sophia, Authentic is a much better word. 

It is definitely vanity and a sense of wanting to be authentic that is motivating me to go down this path one more time.  It is right for me, and something I have been thinking about for a few years now.

Cherry, I also fully understand the not wanting any more surgeries.  I was there back in 2004 after my last surgery.  I was done with going to hospitals and spending money.  As I get older and have returned focus to me, which I haven't done in a long while, I am going back to make a few cosmetic "adjustments".  I hope all of your surgeries do improve your life.  I am certain you will get what you want.  <3

-S

Quote from: 2cherry on January 09, 2017, 08:01:54 AM
Yeah, I am done with surgeries. 

It was a very humbling experience, and I am tired of getting surgeries.

...
I have to accept that this is the most feminine I can get, within normal ranges, and without the obvious "plastic" face.

I can totally identify with that 2Cherry. xx

And so... the swelling has gone down. The nose is also not swollen anymore. The base of the nose is still swollen. Lips also did decrease in swelling. I actually liked my lips swollen, so I might get my lips filled one day. 

The scar is not visible yet. The area is a bit red. I am doing fine, but can't move the area much yet. The sutures will be removed on friday.

I got the endonasal lip lift, free paper here:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/260611365_The_Endonasal_Lip_Lift_Personal_Technique

It's written by Peter Raphael et al, the team of ai4ps, who apparently also do FFS surgeries:

http://www.ai4ps.com/transgender-procedures-plano/male-to-female-plastic-surgery/
http://www.ai4ps.com/plano-plastic-surgeons/dr-peter-raphael/

Anway, ask your surgeon for it, because truthfully, no one should ever have another bullhorn (invented in 1980).

Today, the sutures were removed.

t's amazing to experience how steady, precise and patient surgeons are. The sutures were transparent and very tiny, yet he managed to cut them without any pain. Did not even feel the scissors.

He told me it was a bit redder than normal, and he prescribed me an antibacterial ointment. So even after this rigorous care it still got a minor skin infection. It's a very difficult area. The nose and mouth join there and it is not easy to keep clean.

I was a bit disappointed that my lips lost the swelling, it looked really good! so in time I will get a lip filler, I know it will look good. When, I do not know. I am tired of surgeries though... the healing takes a lot out of me.

I also asked him if he is interested in operating on international transgenders, he is, but he has to look into it how that works out in finance because he works at a state hospital. Anyway, when I know, I will post his details because some of you asked me about it.

Lip has settled down, it's doing fine right now. Only the base of my nose is a bit red. It's looking great, I think.

In the mean time, sensitivity on the top of my head has returned to about 90%, which makes me very happy. When I touch my head with a pencil I can feel it again. I can also scratch my head and feel it. Also can feel my hairs move when I touch it. There are tiny spots still insensitive, but I am certain they will fully return. What remains is a certain feeling of tightness on top of my head, and it does itch. But itching is a good thing. I also massage my forehead, and I feel the nerves tingle and shoot up when I massage it. I guess it's good.

Forehead sensitivity is 100% back. And with that came more itching... scars also itch. All a good thing!

My mouth is fully healed. There are still some minor bumps along the gum line, but I don't notice them unless I move my tongue there.

Chin has healed 100% all sensitivity has returned by week 6. Yet, it's still a bit swollen.

Jaw swelling has gone down for about 70%, now I can finally see my jawline! 

All other things are really uneventful so far.

So I am very fortunate with my FFS. I have no long lasting complications so far. 

Quote from: 2cherry on January 11, 2017, 04:53:10 PM
I got the endonasal lip lift, free paper here:
...
Anway, ask your surgeon for it, because truthfully, no one should ever have another bullhorn (invented in 1980).

I have a question on this - if Lip lift is done together with rhinoplasty, does it make sense to do the endonasal lip lift, since they may have to cut below the nose anyways to work on the tip? I have little knowledge on rhinoplasty, so I ask if it makes sense if one wants a lip lift and a rhinoplasty to combine both or better do a rhinoplasty separately if the surgeon cannot do an endonasal lip lift - where are the scars from a rhinoplasty?

I know Dr Sutin very much advised against doing a lip lift at the same time as nose work because it can create a 'wonky' result. His view was that it's better to do the nose first, then the lip.

xx