Quote from: DanaDane on April 28, 2016, 10:10:36 AM
I'm bringing this back from the dead. 

Was on patches for nine months.  Levels were great.  E was 363 pg/ml and T was 10ng/dl (my T was 415 when I started).

Switched to injections in February and it's a much higher dosage.  (If the numbers are comparable.. I guess it to be 5x more of a dose weekly).

I'm noticing some problems.

1.  Acne
2.  Hair falling out
3.  Increased growth/darker facial hair
4.   Increased morning wood. (It's happened 3 times this week alone).
5.  Problems sleeping
6.  Stress
7.  Cranky.

I have labs tomorrow.  I've consistently been on 200mg of spiro but from what I'm reading it's either

1.  High DHEA
2.  E dominance
3.  T coming back to life.

It's only been 2 months.  Is this enough time to panic.  Should I lower the dose?  Has all the E in me flared up T that has practically been eliminated?


The increased/darker facial hair drives me nuts.  I've been doing laser and the last two times right before the amount of dark hair on my face/neck has gotten worse and the darker hairs on my chest and I don't want to lose the hair on my head. 

Any ideas/suggestions.

What were the lab results? T coming back on 200 spiro would be quite surprising....
It almost sounds like too much E or another imbalance, only your blood tests can say. Acne can be caused by many things, stress and anxiety among them but also diet. Your hair grows in cycles, so since it has been a while I would be curious if you are still having this issue. Hopefully you worked it out!

It is such a shot in the dark. Research shows it's important to keep the dosages and time of dosages consistent every day for maximum effect and most stable levels. Then you add in breaking down better orally vs under the tongue vs release times of shots and blah blah blah

I asked my doctor for injections recently and she said there is nothing that suggests it is more effective, but that it is more expensive. I'm deciding at the next visit if I want to switch purely so I'm not taking pills constantly, but the more research I do the less inclined I am to make the switch now. I've been really happy with my progress so far and am not too interested to start experimenting, especially when my interest in switching has only stemmed from uncorroborated 3rd partys

If it's not broken leave it!

Quote from: JMJW on January 13, 2017, 07:06:25 PM
What's most effective is what's safest. I would refuse pills outright cos I'm not into risking my life like that. I'd rather take nothing.

Kind of extreme..

Pills aren't poison unless you are taking them incorrectly... The side effects from Estrogen are far riskier than the side effect of swallowing a pill. The delivery system is by far the least risky part of this process.


I would just compare here :
Has anyone here NOT been in a car accident regardless of whose fault it was?
vs
How many had a health episode caused by pills being processed by your liver?

Safest would be never driving again lol.

Quote from: LShipley on January 14, 2017, 04:02:53 PM
Kind of extreme..

Pills aren't poison unless you are taking them incorrectly... The side effects from Estrogen are far riskier than the side effect of swallowing a pill. The delivery system is by far the least risky part of this process.


I would just compare here :
Has anyone here NOT been in a car accident regardless of whose fault it was?
vs
How many had a health episode caused by pills being processed by your liver?

Safest would be never driving again lol.

I think the problem here is that it's difficult to establish causality with these things, but heart attack and stroke are the leading causes of death in the western world by far.
The reality is, taking oral steroids: testosterone or estrogen or derivatives thereof, in addition to blood clot risk going up  3 or 4x, it can cause bad cholesterol to increase. I think it's unwise to take those risks if there are alternatives available.

It's only an issue if your older. When your young and healthy you don't have to worry much.

Quote from: JMJW on January 14, 2017, 05:28:49 PM
I think the problem here is that it's difficult to establish causality with these things, but heart attack and stroke are the leading causes of death in the western world by far.
The reality is, taking oral steroids: testosterone or estrogen or derivatives thereof, in addition to blood clot risk going up  3 or 4x, it can cause bad cholesterol to increase. I think it's unwise to take those risks if there are alternatives available.

Yeah thats an extreme point of view honestly about the pills like that has more to do with diet than anything else. And us here in the states have some of the worst diets on the planet. Blood clot risk from what I know is only high if you're actually obese, take it orally not sublingually and you're a smoker, including a terrible diet with little to no exercise.

Quote from: Lady_Oracle on January 14, 2017, 06:58:19 PM
including a terrible diet with little to no exercise.

. Well, that includes about 90% of all the people in the country.



It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves

Quote from: Deborah on January 14, 2017, 08:13:39 PM
. Well, that includes about 90% of all the people in the country.



It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves

lol maybe but everyone I know my age at least exercises and we're young so the odds of blood clots for us is like low as can be.

One has to come to a personal decision based on accumulated risk factors.

Dehydration, Inactivity, Weight, Medication, diet, smoking, etc.

I reckon I'm high risk. My cornea has torn twice from dehydration, I don't really move when I'm working and I sleep too much. If I took spironolactone , which is a diruetic so i'd potentially get more dry, and then oral estrogens? I'd be so dead. 

Dehydration is really easy to fix though.  Just drink more water and add salt if you need it.

I find that while on spiro and exercising I need 20 to 24 eight oz glasses of water a day.  Even drinking that much I don't really have to pee too many times a day.


It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves

Exactly, I totally get that. In my case I've always been naturally dry and it got 10x worst when I started hrt but I've managed over the years. I can't stand spiro at this point, due to the increase in dryness. The other aa's arent all that better so spiro is my best bet and I'm sensitive to side effects in general so I really dont wanna go down that road of trying new meds again. I literally spend half my day in the bathroom but its better than dealing with dysphoria like I was before, lesser of two evils. On the bright side I drink tons of water so despite it all, thats a good thing either way. I can't wait to be off it but surgery isn't gonna happen for a long time unfortunately.

Deborah, wow, that's a lot of water.  I'm on a lower dose of Spiro and I've only increased my water intake slightly.  You might want to discuss your dosage with your doctor.

Sent from my LG-H820 using Tapatalk

I had to increase to the max dose to get my T in the right range.  It dropped on a lower dose but not enough. 

As for the water, when I run I sweat a lot; even before HRT.  I once measured it and figured I was sweating around 2 liters an hour running in the summer (in Georgia).  Even at less than 40 degrees I finish with my now longer hair dripping.  I've always thought that was just a sign of a really well developed internal cooling system.

I will mention it to my Dr, but all my blood values are normal and I had a physical to check my blood sugar and cholesterol a few months ago.  Those were normal too.


It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves

Quote from: herekitten on January 14, 2017, 08:29:52 AM
I know some of my friends whom were only on oral for a few years and they looked great. After talking, they went on delestrogen and the changes were noticeable. I wish I knew what it is, but it just feminizes the body in a way that is quite noticeable..... and that 'glow'.

Since being on injections and oral progesterone, I also noticed that 'glow', others have too. My skin glows...

Quote from: JMJW on January 14, 2017, 08:22:59 PM
One has to come to a personal decision based on accumulated risk factors.

Dehydration, Inactivity, Weight, Medication, diet, smoking, etc.

I reckon I'm high risk. My cornea has torn twice from dehydration, I don't really move when I'm working and I sleep too much. If I took spironolactone , which is a diruetic so i'd potentially get more dry, and then oral estrogens? I'd be so dead.

The risk of clots so often talked about was noted with estrogens in high doses which were NOT bio-identical. One needs to differentiate between those forms and what is prescribed commonly today. Estradiol taken orally has far less impact on caogulation and as a result, several studies have shown oral estradiol to be quite safe in transwomen.