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Image recognition and being blown out of stealth online

Started by GlobalPessimum, November 09, 2016, 11:34:41 AM

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GlobalPessimum

I was wondering what members here think of the possibilty of being identified by a picture they posted online.

The state of the art in (automated) image recognition is now such that this is a distinct possibility, for instance see

Face recognition app taking Russia by storm may bring end to public anonymityy

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/may/17/findface-face-recognition-app-end-public-anonymity-vkontakte

Shaun Walker in Moscow Tuesday 17 May 2016 04.39 EDT

According to that article, image recognition was used to match performers in adult movies to their social media pictures (which they maintained with their real identities). This may not be entirely true (the people who outed those performers may not have used the image processing service discussed in the article; maybe they knew those performers already and said they used the service only to cover their tracks). Still, the fact of the matter is that it is very likely that soon it will be possible to search online for a picture matching a query picture, with very good accuracy.

For the technically inclined, you can have a look at the results of scientific competisions on the Labelled Faces in the Wild dataset (http://vis-www.cs.umass.edu/lfw/results.html) and the published work of groups working for Facebook in particular (eg, https://www.cs.toronto.edu/~ranzato/publications/taigman_cvpr14.pdf) who seems hell bent on making this a reality.

I for one am, to use technical language, scared ->-bleeped-<-less by the implications of this and I've decided to make absolutely sure that every last pixel of my image is scoured from the internets. It's bad enough that, until recently, you could find reasonably good quality pictures of myself just by googling my full name. It scares me to think that people could snap a picture of me without knowing and google me, and find out all about me being trans.

So, what does everyone else think, about this?


Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone - John Maynard Keynes.
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Dena

There is a program available on line that will find the same image on the web. You can change the cropping and size but it will still locate the image elsewhere on the web. On another site we had a game thread where you tried to determine where a place was and one of the rules was not using that site to locate the image. My avatar is 30 years old and is only posted here so I am not risking much by leaving it up. Besides that, I am not worried about anybody knowing about me and it would be easer for them just to ask.
Rebirth Date 1982 - PMs are welcome - Use [email]dena@susans.org[/email] or Discord if your unable to PM - Skype is available - My Transition
If you are helped by this site, consider leaving a tip in the jar at the bottom of the page or become a subscriber
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GlobalPessimum

Could you please give me a link to that program? I'd like to have a look.

I understand that for many people there's no issue with being identified, because they are out about who they are. For others, it is more of an issue.

I'm also wondering (more than being worried) about the extent to which it is possible to match someone's images before and after FFS. Could be an interesting subject for a paper, except of course there would probably be very few volunteers to participate.
Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone - John Maynard Keynes.
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Sophia Sage

If you want to enjoy non-disclosure, best not post any pictures of yourself anywhere.
What you look forward to has already come, but you do not recognize it.
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AnonyMs

I don't think you'll have much luck with this.

Its very hard to avoid having your photo taken

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/06/fbi-can-search-400-million-face-recognition-photos

And how do you stop other people tagging you in images they upload to Facebook?

http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/05/18/477819617/facebooks-facial-recognition-software-is-different-from-the-fbis-heres-why

Long term I suspect only thing you can do is be out and then the worst has already happened.
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GlobalPessimum

Quote from: AnonyMs on November 09, 2016, 07:20:04 PM
And how do you stop other people tagging you in images they upload to Facebook?

http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/05/18/477819617/facebooks-facial-recognition-software-is-different-from-the-fbis-heres-why

As to that, I try not to hang out with people who use Facebook. I have friends who do but they know my views, so they'll be less likely to tag me and I don't allow them to take my picture.

It's an uphill battle of course. Most people cannot comprehend the need for privacy anymore. Many are even offended when you say you don't want to be in their bloody picture.

On the up side, Facebook's image recognition folks are very big on neural networks, against which there are well-documented defenses:

https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~sbhagava/papers/face-rec-ccs16.pdf

(because neural networks are just a big pile of dumb)

I guess eventually people like me, who just don't like to be photographed, will have to go around with our faces covered. That's going to be interesting to see.
Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone - John Maynard Keynes.
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Dena

Quote from: GlobalPessimum on November 09, 2016, 06:17:34 PM
Could you please give me a link to that program? I'd like to have a look.
This is not the only site like this but it's the only one I know of http://tineye.com. I suspect it's intended to look for copyright violation and not for similar images.
Rebirth Date 1982 - PMs are welcome - Use [email]dena@susans.org[/email] or Discord if your unable to PM - Skype is available - My Transition
If you are helped by this site, consider leaving a tip in the jar at the bottom of the page or become a subscriber
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AnonyMs

I don't think there's any chance long term, 10 or 20 years. This technology is going to move very quickly, and get vastly better. Its not just facial recognition either, everything you do with a cell phone, or online.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3765881/Facebook-privacy-fail-psychiatrist-s-patients-recommended-friends-other.html

And you make you life more and more difficult as you opt out of all this stuff as well.

There's a Facebook group for Facial Team that I've heard is really good, and I'd like to see whats there. There's no way I'm joining Facebook so I miss out on that. There's a few people who know who I am, that I'm trans, and have my phone number. If they have Facebook on their phone then Facebook will have my number and connection to them. What am I supposed to do? Its really hard maintaining burner numbers for everything, and the phone company still knows the connection (Australia).
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GlobalPessimum

Quote from: Dena on November 09, 2016, 07:45:57 PM
This is not the only site like this but it's the only one I know of http://tineye.com. I suspect it's intended to look for copyright violation and not for similar images.

Thanks.
Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone - John Maynard Keynes.
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GlobalPessimum

Quote from: AnonyMs on November 09, 2016, 07:47:52 PM
And you make you life more and more difficult as you opt out of all this stuff as well.

That's absolutely true and also absolutely unacceptable. It's like telling people they can't get a job if they don't watch TV or some such nonsense.

On the other hand, I've made my life very difficult by transitioning already. Anything else the world wants to throw at me? Bring it on. I laugh in their faces. Ha!

(That is just my sense of humour. It is no cause for concern.)
Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone - John Maynard Keynes.
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AnonyMs

And one day you won't be able to get a job because you're some kind of crazy person with no online presence. Who'd take the risk of hiring someone like that?
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Sophia Sage

Quote from: AnonyMs on November 09, 2016, 07:20:04 PMLong term I suspect only thing you can do is be out and then the worst has already happened.
     Self-destroyer, wreck your health
     Destroy friends, destroy yourself
     The time device of self-destruction
     Light the fuse and start eruption

     (Yea, it goes like this, here it goes)
     Paranoia, the Destroyer
     

               -- The Kinks, "Destroyer"

               


No, it makes no sense to prematurely bring about your worst outcome, let alone be the instigator of such. 

Of course, if you're going to practice non-disclosure, that means completely ghosting anyone who won't respect that.  So I end up in the background of someone's FB page?  Like that's going to mean anything.  Anyone on Facebook or social media who knows me is not privy to my medical history. 
What you look forward to has already come, but you do not recognize it.
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SadieBlake

I'm temperamentally disposed to be an open book on the internet while building as careful a firewall as possible to ensure my privacy is maintained, particularly with regard to not being electronically outed.

For this reason I don't participate in Facebook because of their terrible reputation on customer privacy. I've setup my Google account to disallow face tagging, meaning that noone who posts my photo is allowed to tag me.

I've always kept any accounts where I was posting about gender or sexuality issues in a separate Google account and I periodically check to see if I've slipped up or if someone created a connection I don't want. I only ever found one and it was correctable.

To my knowledge I only have one photo of myself on the 'net that's linked to my name which I put in place at the requirement of a job and where I selected the photo so as to be visually recognizable to a human but unlikely to be tagged by any software algorithm. And I've also audited that:

Searching my name turns up that image, quite a few people who know me and photos I've taken but no other images of me. Conversely, searching that image only turns up that one image and no other images of me and a few images of the activity I was engaged in in the photo -- mountaineering.

Given I've maintained one or another page on the web continuously since about 1995 (when the count of all pages on the web was around 25000), I'm pretty happy with that record.
🌈👭 lesbian, troublemaker ;-) 🌈🏳️‍🌈
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Xirafel

That's why I came up with such a ridiculous name. So, my stalkers can't find me. Lovely people.
Lunatics, bullies, etc.
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MissGendered

#14
An old topic, but an issue near and dear to me..

Okay, so, there are more reasons than being trans for desiring a clean break from the past. For people with active dual-life realities involving social media, such as porn stars, the likelihood of being 'outed' is much higher, whether from facial or image recognition software or some other electronic trail they may leave behind them.

But, in the 21st century, no matter what the reason, the very lack of a visible online history can be a 'tell'. And the more 'tells', the more likely some nosey person is going to think they have spotted somebody in hiding. Even for those in witness protection, there is no perfect solution, but there are principles you can adopt that will improve your odds of living without being at risk. I am obviously breaking a prime directive by posting here, lol. If you don't want to be mistaken for a chicken, you gotta stay out of the henhouse, ya know?

So, yeah, I am not trans, but I do have a history that could be mistaken for trans. Yes, there are legitimate arguments for just being transparent with one's history, and accepting whatever happens afterward with grace, and to those people that choose such a path, I say: "Good for you", and I mean that. But, I am not such a person, though it does grate on me to be dishonest, for certain. What I want, is to live without the albatross of my medical and life history hanging over me, to live without having people digging into my past inconsiderately, eventually forcing me to explain everything that lead up to the present, in order for my life to 'make sense' to them. You see, unless I tell everything, because something just doesn't explain anything, I find myself compelled to tell everything, or nothing at all. And most all, if not all, of my past really is MY business, and my business only. This notion that somebody has a RIGHT to know anything about a person's past is BS, and a recent development in modern culture. Once upon a time, being able to relocate and reinvent one's self was considered an inalienable right, especially in the New World, especially in America. Asking too many questions was not only considered rude, but dangerous. Not anymore, thanks to the internet age, and the shortsightedness of the younger generations, or whatever, I dunno, heck, I am not a social scientist, ha!

So, what to do?

Well, even if I had the full plan already laid out (which I do), the first thing I would do is forget about sharing it with anybody. Ever. The only way two people can keep a secret is if one of them is dead. Dead, and without any electronic devices to store clues, intended, or otherwise...

I guess I am rambling a bit. Sorry, but my own plan is a work in progress, lol.

The first step, of course, is to purge the internet of every possible clue as to who we once were. Somewhere, that data may still be archived, but eventually, most stuff will disappear. It is also important to remember that unless we are important, nobody really cares enough about us to lift a finger to dig into anything more than Google. They will ask if they suspect something, and our reactions will decide whether they leave it be, or dig even deeper.

The second step, is to decide early on to NOT post new clues, no matter how lonely, or sad, we are living off the social media grid. Start practicing self-control. Any pics I posted after starting my own journey were heavily filtered and were never full face pics. Not a perfect solution, but enough to reduce risk. I don't allow pics of myself to be taken anywhere now if I have a choice. I don't do selfies. Ever. I pass it off as modesty. Believe me, that is hard, I loooove how I look now, lol. I will also have my face remodeled, and no, I will not allow the surgeon to post pics. And yes, I will relocate immediately. My deep stealth plan includes a one-way permeable barrier. I will be able to revisit those I love, but they will not know where I have been, nor if, or when, I will pop back for a visit. Once established, this will be reasonable easy to maintain. If I were an internationally-wanted felon, this would not work. But for a woman that just wants her privacy, it is very doable. But it will take discipline. Real discipline. If you are chatty and inclined to over-share, you may want to reconsider the soft-stealth option, or just being out and being done with it, I dunno..

And there is another rub. On occasion, some trans-cop/homophobe will see that I am tall, and will start asking questions in real life, as if it is any of his/her business who, or what, I may or may not be. Transpeople or other LGBT individuals can be the absolute worst about this, actually, they 'see' trans everywhere and start blabbing. Think about it, have you ever done such a thing? Yeah, me too. Tall women get the 'is that really a dude?' question with alarming regularity now that trans life is sooo much in the public eye. This is a very unfortunate blowback to the forward progress for trans-awareness in our culture. But, false positives are also a shield for true positives, depending on how one reacts. How do cis women act when accused of being trans? Act like that. You have to believe your cover story so deeply that you don't get rattled by near-misses (or slip-ups in your own conversations). Easier said than done, I know, but remember the Shakespearian observation "I believe the lady protesteth too much", or whatever he said, lol. Stay cool, never let them see you sweat.

If you want to know how to remain deep stealth, you have to model your security on those whose lives depend on secrecy. Witness protection protocols are a good place to start. There are lots of resources for 'wanna-be' secret agents floating around, these are useful for considering the methods and personal costs involved in disappearing and reinventing yourself. Go slow, think it through, and for goodness sake, keep it all to yourself!

For most people, a soft-stealth approach will do just fine. Most people really don't care about what other people are doing enough to look beyond their 'likes' total on Facebook. At the moment, I am living soft-stealth, my family and half a dozen old friends know my history, as do my doctors, my ex-bf, and probably a few other people that were told without my permission, but my new friends and neighbors do not know anything at all. But, that said, I am always planning my 'perfect solution' and angling my future in that direction. Yes, it is highly involved, and expensive, and possibly not fool-proof. But I believe it to be my right to live as I wish, without explaining anything to anybody, and eventually, I plan to 'make it so'.

So, yes, to answer the OP's question; I am worried about facial recognition software and the possible future implications of technology making any kind of anonymity for ANYBODY impossible. Every human should be concerned that each and every thing they have said, will say, have done, will do, and so on, may become part of their permanent record, somewhere, somehow, and that such information may someday be used against them. Think Orwell's "1984". First it may be trans and gays and porn stars that are at risk, but eventually, the risk will spread to ALL people, everywhere. Somehow, I find a modicum of comfort in that fact, lol. Oh, and of course, there already exists software that can analyze prose and gather together all the written words published online, into one nice set, no matter where it was posted, no matter how clever the alias.

What do we do, then?

Well, I can't speak for you, but I will do whatever I can to maintain my present privacy, within reason, for now. I will then assume a MUCH more stringent code of conduct that allows me full security in real life, perhaps at the cost of having no online life, which is okay with me. And I will try to grow enough as a person to feel it would be okay if I were outed someday, since that seems likely at some point, anyway, and just live my life the best I can in the meantime, day by day, and enjoy the true pleasures of being my authentic self, without worrying about the other shoe dropping at any given moment.

I once considered starting a website for deep-stealth wannabe's, then I realized how ridiculously counter-productive that would be. The less you tell, the less you share, the less you CARE, the greater the odds of being successful at breaking free from your past and living to your full potential.

To those that share my need for living as if the past wasn't as it was, you have my respect and genuine hope for your success.

To those that live out and proud, you have my deepest respect and genuine admiration. You are warriors and warrioresses, and all oppressed peoples owe you a debt of gratitude.

To those that live somewhere in between, probably the vast majority of the community, you have my full support and admiration, too. We all just want to be our true selves. And you folks with little or no agenda are what we all wish we could be someday, in a better world. Good for you!
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Mia

My wife's Google Photos account automatically separates pictures of me into two different categories - one is photos prior to my FFS and transition and the other post-transition (Mia). So maybe there is hope for trans people who wish to be stealth.
Mia


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flytrap

Your post really hits home for me, MissGendered.
My past and my private life are NO ONE'S Business. Primary (male alter) and me live completely separate lives. It's like stealth times two. Neither of us have any problems with people seeing us as the wrong gender because each of us is so confident about who we are. And Primary never had an internet presence so that isn't a big concern. But I can only let my girlfriends get so close. And even I can tell that sometimes my alter's distorted reality crosses the line and becomes a lie. It works OK because I only want a little world. If I was primary alter it would be a really big problem.
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