***This is an imagined conversation I have with my wife (in the form of a monologue)***

Hon? Do you have a little while?  I'd like to talk about something important.

We've been married a long time, and of all the people we know, we have known each other the longest.

And, you know I do love you.

Well, you know how all of the movies, books, art and other media I like all have in common a strong female lead?

And, you know how I'm really good at helping you with your wardrobe, especially helping you find good shoes?

And, you know how I'm always honest with you when you ask me how you look?

And, you know how when you have a bad day, I listen and give support without trying to fix the problem for you?

And, I keep my hair long, I know you like it that way, so do I.

Then there is sex, and how I know how get you to orgasm continuously, especially with oral sex?

Well, this is hard for me to say, and I know this may be hard for you to hear, but remember I love you very much....

Hon, your a lesbian.

I've known for some time, and well, I just wanted to get that out in the open.

By the way, I'm starting hormone replacement therapy...



Edited to clarify intent.

The trouble with a lead in like that is they start thinking sickness or trouble. A simple "I'm transgender" accomplishes the same thing and starts the same avalanche of questions you're going to get anyway. 

Hugs, Devlyn

Lol, I kinda went that route with my ex, too...

Tried to convince her she had been living with a woman all those years (she actually had been, genetically at least) and that the reasons we got along so well, the reasons  she loved how I 'wasn't a typical man' indicated that she was likely not exactly 'straight', and well, yeah, at first she was okay with toying (no pun intended) with that idea, and then she started identifying as pansexual, but then it backfired.

She just married a man a few months ago, by the way, lol..

After I threw her out (long story), she moved back home and started referring to me as 'he' with everybody, and basically re-wrote HER history into a very hetero narrative, and 'forgot' all about my de-transition, and her 'pansexuality'.

She wrote me off completely, shut me off her social media, stopped communicating with me at all. Now she swims deep in denial, and tells it like she left me for not being a good provider, and hates me privately as the woman that killed her man.

That's how that approach worked out for me, you may have a different result, I dunno, but good luck, whatever which way you go.

Missy

Missy,

I just read your story.  I don't have anything like your experience, I just don't have a frame of reference to begin with to say I understand what you went through.  All I can think to say right now is I wish you the best and that you find real love.

As far as my coming out, no, I would never say those things, actually it just occurred to me as kind of a funny way to do it.

I'm going to wait until I start HRT, then just tell her.  It may go well, it may not, it really isn't up to me how she handles it.  She can throw me away or she can accept it, I would prefer the latter, but either way I can deal with it.

That is a funny one two punch monologue.   I do suggest telling more sooner than later.  People I came out with often complained that I was too good at hiding and sometimes suggested the whole living a lie thing.  Your life at your pace still respected.

Quote from: Veda on January 17, 2017, 12:01:12 PM
All I can think to say right now is I wish you the best and that you find real love.

Thank you, Veda. The silver lining is that I am to the point in my life where what I really need is something that all humans need, and especially most straight cis women, so I can now reframe what I lack into 'normal' longings. Up until very recently, my issues were so out of this world that I felt like an actual alien among humans. Now, not so much, and at times, barely at all.

It is my sincere hope that nobody ever has know what my life was like before, either directly, nor indirectly. Such things are science fiction horror stories mixed with psycho thrillers and nazi doctor narratives combined. Nope, no fun at all, not really, ha!

But, here I am, now, on the threshold of normalcy. I'm good, no worries, just the usual needs of a normal gal, ya know? Well, actually, wanting/needing significant facial remodeling and body sculpting is a bit unusual, but certainly not unheard of, so, yeah, there is that, too, psshhh...

So, back to you, I really hope your wife is okay with your situation. My ex and I would still be together if it had been up to me. But it wasn't, and we aren't, and that is that..

:-) Missy

Quote from: Veda on January 17, 2017, 12:01:12 PM
I'm going to wait until I start HRT, then just tell her.

I sense danger there.  YMMV.  All I know is that that wouldn't have worked for my wife.

Good luck however you decide to do it!

If this is a joke, I apologize for taking it too seriously, but I would *really* not recommend leading with the declaration that you're changing her orientation. (For one thing, you're not; only she gets to decide what her orientation is. Even if she stays with you, she may do so as a straight woman who decides to be in a lesbian *relationship.* One huge pet peeve of my wife's is when people assume that my gender defines HER orientation.) Also, my wife has been active in the trans partners' community for years, and the biggest predictor of a relationship's failure that she's seen is when a trans person starts down the path to transition without disclosing that to their partner. It tends to be perceived as a betrayal.

I say this as someone who is more happily married after transition than before, and that's in large part because I let my wife be my *partner* in walking the transition path.

Quote from: Jenna Marie on January 17, 2017, 04:31:00 PM
If this is a joke, I apologize for taking it too seriously, but I would *really* not recommend leading with the declaration that you're changing her orientation.

It is very much a joke.  An example of what not to do.

Quote from: Jenna Marie on January 17, 2017, 04:31:00 PM
Also, my wife has been active in the trans partners' community for years, and the biggest predictor of a relationship's failure that she's seen is when a trans person starts down the path to transition without disclosing that to their partner. It tends to be perceived as a betrayal.

I think the biggest problem I'm concerned with is when a partner thinks they have any say in the decision to transition.  I could not imagine telling my wife my wants about anything that concerns her health, her person.

I'm taking my own time to come out to her, and I'm doing it after I've started HRT, it's not any form of betrayal, it's just me doing what I need to do and letting her know when the time is right for me.

A betrayal would be the act of not supporting a person in their desire to be whole, or leaving someone because of their refusal to be what you demand of them.

I personally don't need or want my wife to be active in the trans community, no more than I would want her to take a poetry class with me.  I want her to just be OK with me and who I am.

Now I'm starting to sound confrontational, and it really isn't like that at all, it's just fear of the unknown, the nagging 'what-ifs' that surround big events.

If she asks 'why didn't you tell me sooner?'  My answer will be that 'I wanted to start the route by myself for myself, and now that I've started I want to include you'.

Veda: I should have clarified that I'm not saying whether it *is* a betrayal - I'd never presume to judge that for someone else - only that many partners perceive it that way. Personally, I did want to maximize the chances that my marriage would survive. I also don't expect to be allowed to make decisions for my wife about her body, but I'd be very upset and unhappy if she didn't at least tell me what her decision was before doing it.

It's also not all or nothing; it doesn't have to be "supports you and suppresses her own needs or leaves you because you wouldn't be what she demanded." My wife both supported me wholeheartedly and had her own emotional reactions (that she couldn't control) to the situation. Caring about her feelings and letting her be part of the process, even if she didn't have veto power, allowed us to get through transition with less damage to the relationship. It sounds as if your priorities may be different than mine, though, so my advice may not be appropriate.

Quote from: Jenna Marie on January 17, 2017, 06:07:02 PM
Caring about her feelings and letting her be part of the process, even if she didn't have veto power, allowed us to get through transition with less damage to the relationship. It sounds as if your priorities may be different than mine, though, so my advice may not be appropriate.

Your advice is welcome, I cannot claim to be a pro at this kind of thing.

For me, starting therapy is confirmation, and it is just my personality to not bring up an issue unless it is confirmed to be one.

Emotionally I am confirmed, but taking action makes it real.

Veda, that need to control the transgender partner's transition is what led to my marriage failure.  You're onto something there. 

My partner needed to regulate my behavior with a set of fairly humiliating rules and rituals. The were intended to avoid embarrassing her,  I think, by her or her friends accidentally seeing ME.  Combined with a refusal to learn anything at all about transgender people, this made for a fairly abusive situation.  She finally decided that I would have to leave as she was frightened one of her friends might see me leaving or returning from therapy, where I presented as myself.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Quote from: Michelle_P on January 17, 2017, 10:34:03 PM
Veda, that need to control the transgender partner's transition is what led to my marriage failure.  You're onto something there.
 
My partner needed to regulate my behavior with a set of fairly humiliating rules and rituals. The were intended to avoid embarrassing her,  I think, by her or her friends accidentally seeing ME.  Combined with a refusal to learn anything at all about transgender people, this made for a fairly abusive situation.  She finally decided that I would have to leave as she was frightened one of her friends might see me leaving or returning from therapy, where I presented as myself.

I'm sorry to hear that, it always comes as a disappointment to me when I hear of such things, or experience them.  What is it that can cause a person to be so selfish as to hurt another that way?  I just don't know.  I can understand if a partner is unwilling to continue because of the change in relationship, people can grow apart, but to impose such restrictive conditions on another...  vindictiveness I suppose, some selfish motivation to give payback for some imagined injury?  Maybe it is related to a lowering of status within an immature peer-group, or just a plain old desire to be dominant in a relationship.

Maybe it is the misconception that in order to win, someone has to lose.  It's like people forget that win-win is the best result for everyone involved, and that win-lose most often results in lose-lose.

OK, I better stop before I start talking about game theory.

(edited for spelling)

You run a very high risk of your partner feeling lied to or betrayed by taking all these steps and going behind her back without telling her.  Whether you believe this is going behind her back will not factor into her own feelings on the matter.

You're already going in with a big ask in hoping she will accept and embrace this huge revelation. I personally think you're going to make it harder on both of you by doing it this way.

Whenever you do it, I hope it goes well for the both of you.  I know how scary it is, I withheld it from my wife for 16 years before working up the courage to tell her.  I even considered HRT a few times in those years, but always pushed it off.   

Veda,
I saw your original post as a joke right away.
Hilarious!

My therapist, both last week and this week, said that putting too much decision making power over me concerning the things that in the end are to prevent me from a decay of depression. Being very loving and concerned about how to describe gender dysphoria to a spouse is different from letting the spouse have the green light vs. red light control.

I take everyone's advice here very seriously, though, to take things slowly with a spouse.
(Just not so slowly that nothing actually happens.)

Quote from: AshleyC on January 19, 2017, 02:15:45 PM
You run a very high risk of your partner feeling lied to or betrayed by taking all these steps and going behind her back without telling her.  Whether you believe this is going behind her back will not factor into her own feelings on the matter.

You're already going in with a big ask in hoping she will accept and embrace this huge revelation. I personally think you're going to make it harder on both of you by doing it this way.

It is a hard decision, what is the lie of betrayal in order to have the upper hand, and what is the lie of omission for self preservation? 

I don't know what her feelings are going to be, I can only guess.

My outlook is that I'm not behind her back, I'm facing forward to my own path.

Here is a poem she gave me, it tends to give me hope it will work out:

Allowables
-Nikki Giovanni

I killed a spider
Not a murderous brown recluse
Nor even a black widow
And if the truth were told this
Was only a small
Sort of papery spider
Who should have run
When I picked up the book
But she didn't
And she scared me
And I smashed her

I don't think
I'm allowed

To kill something

Because I am

Frightened

Quote from: Veda on January 19, 2017, 08:53:20 PM
It is a hard decision, what is the lie of betrayal in order to have the upper hand, and what is the lie of omission for self preservation? 

I don't know what her feelings are going to be, I can only guess.

My outlook is that I'm not behind her back, I'm facing forward to my own path.

Here is a poem she gave me, it tends to give me hope it will work out:

Allowables
-Nikki Giovanni

I killed a spider
Not a murderous brown recluse
Nor even a black widow
And if the truth were told this
Was only a small
Sort of papery spider
Who should have run
When I picked up the book
But she didn't
And she scared me
And I smashed her

I don't think
I'm allowed

To kill something

Because I am

Frightened

The fact that you feel the need to have the "upper hand" here worries me- that doesn't sound like a healthy way to approach a relationship.

I am the proud, supportive cis partner of a wonderful woman currently going through transition. There have been some growing pains, but we're solid, because she has involved me in every aspect of her transition and it feels like we are taking this journey together. In fact, I was the one who helped her come out to her friends, did her makeup, and took her shopping for the first time- I even spoke to a sales associate at a lingerie store and got her measured for her first bra because she was too nervous to do it on her own. Before she was publicly out, I bought some nail polish for her and gave her a pedicure and painted her toes so she could have a little secret gender expression to help with the dysphoria. The reason why I'm able to be so supportive is because I've felt involved since the beginning.
Being the partner of a trans person who is transitioning is like being in a car going 200 mph and you aren't driving. You are on this wild ride of a journey that you have no control over unless you want to bail out. Because of that, you have to trust the person driving implicitly. If my partner would have started transitioning without telling me, I would have felt a HUGE breach of trust and I don't know how things would have gone- probably not well. I'd strongly suggest that, if you want to keep your partner, you involve her in as much as possible- and don't keep her from trans communities, that's probably the only place she will meet other cis partners who are going through what she's going through, and she's going to need all the support she can get for the difficult feelings she's about to face.

Quote from: Selenakyle on January 20, 2017, 12:01:55 PM
The fact that you feel the need to have the "upper hand" here worries me- that doesn't sound like a healthy way to approach a relationship.

I am the proud, supportive cis partner of a wonderful woman currently going through transition. There have been some growing pains, but we're solid, because she has involved me in every aspect of her transition and it feels like we are taking this journey together. In fact, I was the one who helped her come out to her friends, did her makeup, and took her shopping for the first time- I even spoke to a sales associate at a lingerie store and got her measured for her first bra because she was too nervous to do it on her own. Before she was publicly out, I bought some nail polish for her and gave her a pedicure and painted her toes so she could have a little secret gender expression to help with the dysphoria. The reason why I'm able to be so supportive is because I've felt involved since the beginning.
Being the partner of a trans person who is transitioning is like being in a car going 200 mph and you aren't driving. You are on this wild ride of a journey that you have no control over unless you want to bail out. Because of that, you have to trust the person driving implicitly. If my partner would have started transitioning without telling me, I would have felt a HUGE breach of trust and I don't know how things would have gone- probably not well. I'd strongly suggest that, if you want to keep your partner, you involve her in as much as possible- and don't keep her from trans communities, that's probably the only place she will meet other cis partners who are going through what she's going through, and she's going to need all the support she can get for the difficult feelings she's about to face.

I agree 100%, and though my ex and I did part, had I not included her all along, and took her feelings and reactions into consideration, she would have bailed out of the car immediately. We parted mostly because of her personality disorder becoming unmanageable during my changes, but the fact remains that without her early support, I would have been at a tremendous financial and emotional disadvantage. She helped with many things like you did for your partner, though she did also put the brakes on my full transition, so it was good, then bad, but not bad right away...

Had I not included her right from the start, and not helped her find cis-support at that time, I would have been homeless, non-passing, and without any means to go forward in any meaningful way...

Compromise may seem hard to accept when we are suffering, but without it, we may inadvertently paint ourselves into a no-win corner...

Just sayin'..

Missy

I'm glad to be helpful, if possible. I would say that if you must do this without telling her, you also explain it the way you did here, that you don't like to bring up an issue until it's confirmed. Presumably she knows this about you, and maybe it'll help her understand why you started HRT before telling her.

(My wife always referred to it as "being on a runaway train"; close enough, I guess! But the car is a great analogy in terms of the trust required. It's also true that there's even less support for partners than for trans people, which I suppose makes sense, since by definition there are fewer partners than there are trans people.)