We can cite statistics but IMO best to go to the source rather advocacy sites with an agenda.  Nothing trumps our personal experience in terms of impact, however.  I value hearing about how people have experienced gender and feminism as they transition.  I have experienced considerable misogyny and even sexual assault (publicly groped) since starting transition.  My eyes have been opened wider that ever and I feel a greater connection to the challenges we all face seeking equality. Yes, intersectional feminism speaks volumes to me.

Prevalence and Characteristics of Sexual Violence, Stalking, and Intimate Partner Violence Victimization — National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey, United States, 2011
Surveillance Summaries
September 5, 2014 / 63(SS08);1-18

Matthew J. Breiding, PhD
Sharon G. Smith, PhD
Kathleen C. Basile, PhD
Mikel L. Walters, PhD
Jieru Chen, MS
Melissa T. Merrick, PhD
Division of Violence Prevention, National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, CDC
Corresponding author: Matthew J. Breiding, Division of Violence Prevention, National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, CDC. Telephone: 770-488-1396; E-mail: dvi8@cdc.gov.
Abstract
Problem/Condition: Sexual violence, stalking, and intimate partner violence are public health problems known to have a negative impact on millions of persons in the United States each year, not only by way of immediate harm but also through negative long-term health impacts. Before implementation of the National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey (NISVS) in 2010, the most recent detailed national data on the public health burden from these forms of violence were obtained from the National Violence against Women Survey conducted during 1995–1996.
This report examines sexual violence, stalking, and intimate partner violence victimization using data from 2011. The report describes the overall prevalence of sexual violence, stalking, and intimate partner violence victimization; racial/ethnic variation in prevalence; how types of perpetrators vary by violence type; and the age at which victimization typically begins. For intimate partner violence, the report also examines a range of negative impacts experienced as a result of victimization, including the need for services.
Reporting Period: January–December, 2011.
Description of System: NISVS is a national random-digit–dial telephone survey of the noninstitutionalized English- and Spanish-speaking U.S. population aged ≥18 years. NISVS gathers data on experiences of sexual violence, stalking, and intimate partner violence among adult women and men in the United States by using a dual-frame sampling strategy that includes both landline and cellular telephones. The survey was conducted in 50 states and the District of Columbia; in 2011, the second year of NISVS data collection, 12,727 interviews were completed, and 1,428 interviews were partially completed.
Results: In the United States, an estimated 19.3% of women and 1.7% of men have been raped during their lifetimes; an estimated 1.6% of women reported that they were raped in the 12 months preceding the survey. The case count for men reporting rape in the preceding 12 months was too small to produce a statistically reliable prevalence estimate. An estimated 43.9% of women and 23.4% of men experienced other forms of sexual violence during their lifetimes, including being made to penetrate, sexual coercion, unwanted sexual contact, and noncontact unwanted sexual experiences. The percentages of women and men who experienced these other forms of sexual violence victimization in the 12 months preceding the survey were an estimated 5.5% and 5.1%, respectively.
An estimated 15.2% of women and 5.7% of men have been a victim of stalking during their lifetimes. An estimated 4.2% of women and 2.1% of men were stalked in the 12 months preceding the survey.
With respect to sexual violence and stalking, female victims reported predominantly male perpetrators, whereas for male victims, the sex of the perpetrator varied by the specific form of violence examined. Male rape victims predominantly had male perpetrators, but other forms of sexual violence experienced by men were either perpetrated predominantly by women (i.e., being made to penetrate and sexual coercion) or split more evenly among male and female perpetrators (i.e., unwanted sexual contact and noncontact unwanted sexual experiences). In addition, male stalking victims also reported a more even mix of males and females who had perpetrated stalking against them.

QuoteData on the prevalence of rape vary greatly depending on what definition of rape is used. The FBI recorded 85,593 rapes in 2010, while the Centers for Disease Control (the above study) counted nearly 1.3 million incidents in that same year. It should however be noted that the CDC's definition of rape "represents the public health perspective" and takes into account the ability of the victim to consent to sex because he or she had been drinking or taking drugs while the FBI defines rape as "Penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.

"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#United_States

Bottom line, is the 1 in 5 is a survey designed to include people who have sex while drinking. I know that is epidemic in binge drinking Britain for sure. If you don't take drugs and drink to excess, a woman's odds of being raped by the CDC's criteria (as they decided if the interviewees were raped based on telephone interviews) are no where near 1 in 5.

I would also want to know the response rate for that study as I hear it was low.

Quote from: JMJW on January 20, 2017, 02:43:45 PM
"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#United_States

Bottom line, is the 1 in 5 is a survey designed to include people who have sex while drinking. I know that is epidemic in binge drinking Britain for sure. If you don't drink to excess, a woman's odds of being raped by the CDC's criteria (as they decided if the interviewees were raped) are no where near 1 in 5.

Its data and I understand it, but even calling that out as separate makes my skin crawl. Rape is rape, i don't care if someone is completely drunk, and naked with a neon arrow pointing at them.

Quote from: RobynD on January 20, 2017, 02:50:12 PM
Its data and I understand it, but even calling that out as separate makes my skin crawl. Rape is rape, i don't care if someone is completely drunk, and naked with a neon arrow pointing at them.

The point is how do you define drunk? At what point does drink remove ability to consent and how do you tell that over the phone? It's vague and ambiguous. Again the CDC, not the respondents decided who was raped and who was not. And what if the partner's drunk too?

If you are inebriated at all, and/or your partner AND you have ANY doubt whether there is consent for sex, you stop. I don't care if inhibitions are dulled or judgement is dulled by the drug, if you proceed and someone claims there was not consent than you need to experience the consequences of the law. Edited and added: It is actually no different than drinking and getting behind the wheel and hurting someone, you have to bear the responsibility.

Can someone falsely entrap you? Sure they can, but that is going to be really hard to prove. Which is why the old advice about avoiding drugs and alcohol with casual sex is good.

Quote from: RobynD on January 20, 2017, 03:00:27 PM
If you are inebriated at all, and/or your partner AND you have ANY doubt whether there is consent for sex, you stop. I don't care if inhibitions are dulled or judgement is dulled by the drug, if you proceed and someone claims there was not consent than you need to experience the consequences of the law.

Can someone falsely entrap you? Sure they can, but that is going to be really hard to prove. Which is why the old advice about avoiding drugs and alcohol with casual sex is good.

The 1 in 5 people are raped in their lifetime is an alarmist, outrageous, fear inducing statistic due to the emotive power of rape, where an MTF who hears it would have to be masochistic to want to transition. But when given proper context that it includes any inebriation, 1 in 5 is the number one would expect.

Beyond addressing misogyny, sexual assault, violence and inequality, feminism has as a fiercely positive, proud and determined character that speaks to me.  I stand in solidarity with any group seeking a better future, freedom and increased self determination for all.  Reproductive rights are just one arena under constant assault that motivates me to take action.  Rape is all too real and the CDC is hardly given to alarmist, outrageous or fear as tools for learning.  No excuses need apply, rape is a crime.

We have made progress and continue to need more.  One review can readily be had by watching old movies that feature women as props, secondary characters, subject to abuse and with few prospects beyond their appearance. 

Marching in solidarity with my sisters and brothers tomorrow.

How is it alarmist if it is true? Its just reality.

To discount it is to in a sense support a rape culture that has in part, used things like dress and drunkenness as an excuse for its actions. I'd sort of like to see a survey of people who decide to transition to see if this statistic is truly something that causes one to pause. Perhaps it does in some numbers, I have no idea but there are a lot of things to be afraid of in life as men as women.

To me it is madness to call this form of rape anything but what it is and to have the law apply equally to all who commit it. I have no real problem on presenting the data it is certainly some safety info, but it still makes my skin crawl and i'd be really careful on how it is presented. It is sort of like abuse in general. By the numbers, it is caused overwhelming by people that the victim knows. That data is useful too but abuse is abuse.

Quote from: RobynD on January 20, 2017, 02:50:12 PM
Its data and I understand it, but even calling that out as separate makes my skin crawl. Rape is rape, i don't care if someone is completely drunk, and naked with a neon arrow pointing at them.

Agree 1000%

Yeah, it's weird for me, being dual gender. I can see both sides, even if it's heavily weighted toward the male perspective.
Before I took derris scandens, which blended my gender sides, when my male side was dominating I was misogynist. Even as a child I assumed males were superior.

When other kids tried to put me down for only being a "stupid girl," or tried any disdainful mansplaining, my male side would rise up and put the person in his place. I had the unfair advantages of both genders, being intelligent, articulate, well-read on almost any topic like a female, but aggressive, with the impulse to confront perceived enemies like a male.

The startled boys, and even men, would usually beat a hasty retreat after one of my furiously scornful attacks, but it's a good thing I resemble a pretty, delicate female, so no real male would dare take a swing at me. Besides, I could have defended myself, since I took shaolin do karate classes, even competed.

I considered myself feminist since the 1960s, but part of that was my feeling of outrage I wasn't being counted or taken seriously by others. I assumed males were superior, but I considered myself one of them.

And yes, when I started working, even when I trained new male co-workers, those men would receive far more salary than I did.
Pure misogyny.

My male supervisors would grope female workers and openly proposition them at work, but the moment one of them laid a hand on me, he was sorry.
I raised my voice and loudly asked him what he was doing, asked if he was trying to dominate me physically by invading my space and touching me.
He hastily snatched back his arm.

The rest of the women smiled in admiration, perhaps wondering why THEY had never spoken up. But even I didn't realize it was my aggressive male personality who was challenging a (perceived fellow) male in a masculine manner.

By the way, the male supervisor I challenged seemed to instinctively realize I was a fellow male, and not only promoted me to head my own department, he began treating me with deferential respect, even shooting the breeze with me, as though with a fellow male.

Quote from: Raell on January 20, 2017, 04:02:10 PM
Yeah, it's weird for me, being dual gender. I can see both sides,

Understood. My alter system was split pretty evenly between males and females, children and adults.

There was no mistaking the gender of which ever alter was hosting.

Helped when I was de-transitioning to female to already have women on board. Helped to have male alters when I was forced to live as a man. People knew immediately when they bit off more than they had expected.

Now that I am 'one', I still have both data bases and bases of experience to draw upon, though I dislike pulling from the male side intensely..

Missy

I think equalist is a better term for some one wanting gender equalist then femminist. I really dislike third wave femminism becaus for the most part they dont seem to care much about equality but just want things for themselfs to be easy.

I hear a lot complaining from them but they dont want to work to a solution. Things like complaining there arent enough woman in sceince but not wanting to do it themselfs. Claiming there is a wage gap while looking at studies about it that dont take simple things like hours worked and jobs into account. Also heard a lot about woman quota for jobs Which i find ridicules becaus people should be judged on their work and not their gender.

Also mostly ignoring problems men have like
Men are drafted into the millatery woman arent men are more likely to get a higher prison sentence for the same crime, woman are much more likely to get custody of childeren.

So at this time neither have it perfect for them. But third wave femminism isnt doing anything good for it becaus they dont focus on real issues.
Just going to say that feminism is still important in other parts of the world becaus there are alot of places where woman have it very bad. But in most western countrys thats just not the case.

sigh..third wave feminism isn't intersectional feminism which is the current feminist movement. I'm so tired of seeing these "meninist arguments" on here when intersectional feminism covers everyone from the most marginalized groups to men's issues.

"Meninism" was satire.

Quote from: Lady_Oracle on January 20, 2017, 06:33:16 PM
sigh..third wave feminism isn't intersectional feminism which is the current feminist movement. I'm so tired of seeing these "meninist arguments" on here when intersectional feminism covers everyone from the most marginalized groups to men's issues.

Intersectional feminism may be the most inclusive form feminism has taken, but that doesn't mean every feminist out there views themselves as an intersectional feminist and values the same things.

I am a humanist. I want to see a world that encourages all people to achieve their fullest potential regardless of sex, gender, race, class etc.
I have been a staunch feminist for most of my life. When I decided as a teen to keep pretending to be a straight woman, it reinforced my feminism because I hated being dismissed because of my sex. I am a guy and I react the way most guys do to being treated the way young women are... I got mad and didn't put up with that nonsense (while the girls around me tended to smile and nod or be demure)...
Then in my 20s, I achieved success in my field and was well respected among my peers. On a personal level, I was surrounded by people who respected me and did not focus on gender/sex. I was still a feminist on a global level but I was complacent on a personal level because I wasn't facing a lot of challenges.

Then I became pregnant and birthed two children and became a stay home parent... and I was no longer able to be complacent.
I disappeared as a person and as a guy. I became a "mother": an idealized imagine of the best of womanhood, placed on an alter and worshipped as the core of humanity... yet denigrated at the same time. Mothers in our society are susceptible to constant feedback from strangers. This includes unsolicited advice, commentary and even touching. Mothers are excluded from public spaces and  personhood becomes contingent upon the children. From talking to other mothers, this seems pretty standard. Most of the woman identified mothers I know say that they also experienced this to a lesser extent before becoming parents. I didn't because I really didn't come off as feminine to anyone.
Now I exist in an interesting dual world and get to see how differently "men" and "women/mothers" are treated. When I am out without my children, I pass as a man about half the time. I am largely ignored by strangers and allowed to go through my day unimpeded and with limited feedback from strangers. When people do engage me it is a simple nod or greeting not a lecture on what mood I should be in, what I should wear in public, where I should go etc... a completely different experience from when I am perceived as a woman.
Feminism is needed to address the inequalities that exist globally, the limitations of gender stereotyping as well as the microaggressions and minimization that women experience on a daily basis.
Men and women are not equal in our society. The situation is much better than it used to be but it is still worth fighting to improve it, especially for women of colour, trans women, and gender non-conforming people.


Sent from my SM-G870W using Tapatalk

QuoteHow is it alarmist if it is true? Its just reality.

According to the CDC. But according to the US Justice Department's crime statistics based on the National Crime Victimization Survey (which includes crimes unreported to the police) it's not reality. They found only 12% as many ( about 250,000) as the CDC's which says in a single year, 1.6 percent of women reported experiences that are considered rape—almost two million cases.

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv11.pdf

I don't see how it can be called reality (yet) if there's a tenfold difference in results depending on survey method. And I think calling it such is alarmist, especially if given without context. Which it is. Alot. It's just thrown out there as common knowledge.

Quote
I have no idea but there are a lot of things to be afraid of in life as men as women.

Within Feminism there's a clear attitude of let's promote the worst statistics for women,trans people and people of colour to make it look  nightmarish that people would have to take it seriously and give assistance. But it makes transition harder in my opinion.

Quote from: arice on January 20, 2017, 07:45:52 PM
I am a humanist. I want to see a world that encourages all people to achieve their fullest potential regardless of sex, gender, race, class etc.
I have been a staunch feminist for most of my life. When I decided as a teen to keep pretending to be a straight woman, it reinforced my feminism because I hated being dismissed because of my sex. I am a guy and I react the way most guys do to being treated the way young women are... I got mad and didn't put up with that nonsense (while the girls around me tended to smile and nod or be demure)...
Then in my 20s, I achieved success in my field and was well respected among my peers. On a personal level, I was surrounded by people who respected me and did not focus on gender/sex. I was still a feminist on a global level but I was complacent on a personal level because I wasn't facing a lot of challenges.

Then I became pregnant and birthed two children and became a stay home parent... and I was no longer able to be complacent.
I disappeared as a person and as a guy. I became a "mother": an idealized imagine of the best of womanhood, placed on an alter and worshipped as the core of humanity... yet denigrated at the same time. Mothers in our society are susceptible to constant feedback from strangers. This includes unsolicited advice, commentary and even touching. Mothers are excluded from public spaces and  personhood becomes contingent upon the children. From talking to other mothers, this seems pretty standard. Most of the woman identified mothers I know say that they also experienced this to a lesser extent before becoming parents. I didn't because I really didn't come off as feminine to anyone.
Now I exist in an interesting dual world and get to see how differently "men" and "women/mothers" are treated. When I am out without my children, I pass as a man about half the time. I am largely ignored by strangers and allowed to go through my day unimpeded and with limited feedback from strangers. When people do engage me it is a simple nod or greeting not a lecture on what mood I should be in, what I should wear in public, where I should go etc... a completely different experience from when I am perceived as a woman.
Feminism is needed to address the inequalities that exist globally, the limitations of gender stereotyping as well as the microaggressions and minimization that women experience on a daily basis.
Men and women are not equal in our society. The situation is much better than it used to be but it is still worth fighting to improve it, especially for women of colour, trans women, and gender non-conforming people.


Sent from my SM-G870W using Tapatalk

I too am a humanist and was once an active leader in the AHA.  Humanism is inclusive of feminism and I appreciate reading about your informed perspectives.  Thank you!

Quote from: Kylo on January 20, 2017, 06:49:28 PM
"Meninism" was satire.

exactly 

Quote from: Lady_Oracle on January 21, 2017, 02:59:16 PM
exactly 

But, it was created to prove a point. That a bunch of men can't set up a group in the street and do what feminists do for women's issues only for men's problems in the same way without everyone deriding them, calling the police on them, or threatening to punch them.

Basically women commanding attention for their problems is thought of as wonderful. Men doing the same thing? Unacceptable. You're tired of "meninists" - men pointing out that men have problems too? There you go, it's just what I said earlier. Society cares about women and their problems. Men, however, can shut up and put up with it. No one wants to hear.

No wonder many guys are walking away from feminism, commitment, marriage etc. The message they are unworthy of consideration or even the courtesy of being listened to because of their gender is strong.

And people wonder why men don't like to open up and share their emotions. What's the point? As a man they don't matter anyway, anything other than stoicism is tiresome, right?