Quote from: jentay1367 on January 26, 2017, 03:56:22 PM
Why on earth someone would transition to the female gender when they don't feel themselves female is beyond me.

I pretty much described it up above.

Because having to live as a man was killing me.

I didn't realize it, of course.  At the time (15 years ago), all I knew was that I didn't feel like living any more.  I eventually realized that it was because I was trying to be what other people told me I had to be.  I started trying to listen to my inner voice, and it kept leading me towards living and being in ways that our society insists are only for women.  Each step would seem weird at first, but then I'd feel more like me than ever before.  At some point, I read a blog article by a trans woman that said that you don't have to be conscious that your dysphoria is gender-related for it to be gender dysphoria; basically, you don't have to have always felt like a woman in a man's body to be trans.  That's when I started to consider that I might be trans.  Not too long after that, my inner voice said, "you're going to transition."  Since that inner voice had been making life more and more worth living, I didn't even try to contradict it.  Things kind of progressed without me having to direct them, and eventually I knew it was time to actually pick a date and schedule things so I'd be ready by then.

And, hard as it's been sometimes, I have never once had the slightest sense that it was a mistake.  Even at the worst times, I've still frequently gone out the door and suddenly and to my astonishment found myself saying, "I'm so glad I'm me!"  I feel more alive than I ever have in my entire life.  I don't need a female "gender identity" (I never had a male one, either), I have a "me identity."  At this point, I don't care what "experts" say, transition has turned my life from night into day, from faded black&white into technicolor(tm), it was right for me!

Quote from: jentay1367 on January 26, 2017, 03:56:22 PM
What is your experience of transition? i.e., how far have you taken this journey? Hormones, Surgery, RLE? Life as a transsexual woman is life as a woman or moving in that direction with that goal in mind.

As noted in my signature, I've been on HRT for over a year and I've been full-time for a month or so, but I was Allison everywhere but at work for a year before that.  I'm planning on SRS as soon as I'm eligible, which means as soon as I catch my breath, I have to get things moving.

Quote from: jentay1367 on January 26, 2017, 03:56:22 PM
As to your other query.....I would consider vaginoplasty having gone entirely too far if you find yourself unhappy in the female role after the fact. maybe that's just me?

Vaginoplasty isn't next-day surgery.  Most places in the US want you to have lived full-time for a year first.  If you're going to find yourself unhappy in the female role, I'd think you'd notice it during that year.

Quote from: jentay1367 on January 26, 2017, 03:56:22 PM
If you have taken steps to feminize yourself without the feeling you are a woman, you are transgendered...not transsexual, period. Not a judgement.

Whatever.

P.S.: if you find my story unbelievable, I think you'd find the stories of some of my trans women friends utterly impossible.  And they are all very happy living as trans women, and most have had SRS (or else are on the waiting list.)

Red Hot listen to Asche she has the right ideas

Calling any feeling innately female comes across as gender essentialism.

Quote from: Asche on January 25, 2017, 04:20:01 PM
But if that's who you are (that is, someone with a nature that this meshuggene society labels "trans"), then to not want to be trans is to not want to be yourself.


(Of course our whole society and economy are based around convincing people to not want to be themselves, but someone else, preferrably someone who it's impossible to be.)

Mostly I see people with the trans condition wishing they didn't have to deal with this problem at all and either were born in the correct body or else felt no dissociation or issues with the one they have. I consider trans to be a condition, not an identity. Some will disagree, but I don't feel in the slightest that I want to have a condition that causes dissociation, or want to be identified as someone with it, for it to be used as some kind of prefix for who I am. I want the condition to be treated, so that it is no longer a condition that I suffer, or is at least minimized.

Society doesn't have anything to do with it in my case. Society could accept me tomorrow and shower me with love and affection, or even put me on a pedestal for having this condition and it wouldn't matter. I would still have problems looking at myself in a mirror, I would still have problems with this body, seeing it, using it, tolerating it. It would still interfere severely with living a normal life, just as it always has.

To not want this problem isn't to not want to be myself. Any more than wanting a growth that is inhibiting your movements removed from your body (and then being able to forget about it ever bothering you) means you don't want to be who you are. You already are who you are; the complications of the condition is the obstacle.

Quote from: jentay1367 on January 26, 2017, 03:56:22 PM

Actually, as your argument is specious... I beg to differ,
Why on earth someone would transition to the female gender when they don't feel themselves female is beyond me.

Because sometimes the only thing that matters is hurting less. And doing the things that make you hurt less sometimes involves things like wearing different clothing or using a different name or transitioning, and not doing what some fifty-year-old sexology textbook says you have to do. I don't know why you feel you have the authority to decide what and who other people are, because as much as you say it isn't, it is a judgment. It's a judgment that their own experience and understanding of themselves and their body and their mind is subordinate to your own assignment, which—isn't that what we spend our whole lives fighting against society to resist?

People do what's right for them, which isn't always what's right for you.

 

Quote from: kinz on January 26, 2017, 09:58:53 PM
Because sometimes the only thing that matters is hurting less. And doing the things that make you hurt less sometimes involves things like wearing different clothing or using a different name or transitioning, and not doing what some fifty-year-old sexology textbook says you have to do. I don't know why you feel you have the authority to decide what and who other people are, because as much as you say it isn't, it is a judgment. It's a judgment that their own experience and understanding of themselves and their body and their mind is subordinate to your own assignment, which—isn't that what we spend our whole lives fighting against society to resist?

People do what's right for them, which isn't always what's right for you.

And your argument is specious as well. Bring on the dogpile...it doesn't change accepted  definitions. I have not judged anyone. I simply pointed out that presently accepted definitions were being ignored. If it makes you feel better to imply that I've assaulted anyones experience or presentation it won't change the facts.

Quote from: jentay1367 on January 26, 2017, 10:12:09 PM

And your argument is specious as well. Bring on the dogpile...it doesn't change accepted  definitions. I have not judged anyone. I simply pointed out that presently accepted definitions were being ignored. If it makes you feel better to imply that I've assaulted anyones experience or presentation it won't change the facts.

I don't know what you mean by innately female. Feeling like you should have female organs? Some men on this very site have those. Some people with XY chromosomes have those. So that's not innately female.

Is it feeling submissive? No. Not innately female. Cooking? No. Dresses? No. Dolls? No.
What is one feeling when they feel innately female?

My final note in this thread as I'm obviously aggravating people and that's not my intention. Female....as in I'm a woman. As in....I was born with a birth defect. As in I shouldn't have been born with a penis. As in my brain is female and my body doesn't match that binary or ideal. Don't know what else to add.

I hope this clears that up for you in regards to what I mean.

Quote from: jentay1367 on January 26, 2017, 11:59:39 PM
My final note in this thread as I'm obviously aggravating people and that's not my intention. Female....as in I'm a woman. As in....I was born with a birth defect. As in I shouldn't have been born with a penis. As in my brain is female and my body doesn't match that binary or ideal. Don't know what else to add.

I hope this clears that up for you in regards to what I mean.

So you trying to match an ideal of what is female. That's something very different and a very specific trans narrative. Some of us, including myself, just do whatever's necessary to not die in our beds with the sheets over our head.

Quote from: JMJW on January 27, 2017, 12:19:55 AM
So you trying to match an ideal of what is female. That's something very different and a very specific trans narrative. Some of us, including myself, just do whatever's necessary to not die in our beds with the sheets over our head.

Well.....no. I wasn't going to post, but I do hope you don't kill yourself. Good luck with your problem and I hope you'll wish the same for me.

Quote from: JMJW on January 26, 2017, 11:43:31 PM
What is one feeling when they feel innately female?

For me it is simply a state of knowing.  It is not something reflected in likes or dislikes, hobbies, clothing, or any other external manifestation.  It is a state of unchanging mind that would reside below conscious thought if it wasn't for the obvious physical discontinuity.  Because of that and the external pressures of conforming to the physical form in all ways it rises to conscious thought as dysphoria.  It is not something you decide upon or that you can change.  It simply is.

It's kind of like asking what is it to feel innately human. 



It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves

Wow, rarely do I see someone that sounds pretty similar to me.  I've been plagued by doubt for a long long time.   For me, its because in part that I can't relate to most TG stories.  I never "knew" nor do I have any unbearable levels of dysphoria.  I've always felt like a "wannabe" because no matter how much I wanted to be female or whatever, I felt all whatever I had as evidence didn't matter compared to "feeling female." 

Without the assuredness that I'm trans, I can't muster the bravery and put the effort needed into transitioning.  It's going to take a huge amount of bravery on my part (and I've done some brave things in the past) because I'm scared to death about people knowing that I'm trans.

And TBH, lately I've just felt like taking all my feelings and stuffing them in the closet.  I've felt like the only way I'm going to transition is #1:  if I can confirm that I have gender dysphoria (rather than some foolish wish), and #2:  If it's intense enough that basically it will be clear that the only other choice is suicide, which sounds unfortunate but I feel like it will have to come down to that. 

Quote from: Katelyn on January 27, 2017, 05:47:24 AM
I've felt like the only way I'm going to transition is #1:  if I can confirm that I have gender dysphoria (rather than some foolish wish), and #2:  If it's intense enough that basically it will be clear that the only other choice is suicide, ....

It is perfectly possible to be transgender -- and for transition to be the right choice (based on the results) -- even if you don't have any gender dysphoria.  I know trans people like that.  There was even an article on the subject at everydayfeminism.com a while back.

And waiting for things to be so bad that suicide is the only alternative seems a little extreme.  I can't say that I was anywhere near suicide when I started my journey, it's just that I could see that where I was and was likely to be would not be an improvement on dying.

I have a friend who transitioned -- new name, SRS, the whole deal -- who says she never felt uncomfortable as a man, and in fact didn't really plan on transitioning until about a month before she started; just at some point it seemed like the right thing to do.  She got SRS because she really wanted a vagina.  And she is thrilled with being a (trans) woman.  (Disclaimer: she is one of my mentors.)

Ultimately:

1.  You're never going to be certain it's the right thing.  There are no guarrantees in life.  At some point, you just have to go with it, whatever "it" is.  The good thing about transition is that it's slow (like watching grass grow ), so you'll have plenty of time to see how it feels, to see if it feels right for you.

2.  Everyone is different, everyone's path is different.  Nobody else can definitively tell you whether you're "really trans."  Nobody but you can tell you whether transition is right for you.   You have to figure it out for yourself, though you can get some help along the way.

Quote from: Asche on January 27, 2017, 07:59:57 AMI have a friend who transitioned -- new name, SRS, the whole deal -- who says she never felt uncomfortable as a man, and in fact didn't really plan on transitioning until about a month before she started; just at some point it seemed like the right thing to do.  She got SRS because she really wanted a vagina.  And she is thrilled with being a (trans) woman.  (Disclaimer: she is one of my mentors.)

Where are stories of people like her?  Transwomen like her keep quiet, and the media continually showing that one transgender narrative, ends up making me feel like I'm not legitimately female enough to transition, and makes me feel alone, and doubtful that a successful transition is possible.  I <not permitted> over my brain and my emotional system within the past nine years because of self doubt, feeling a lot more distant from my female feelings than I was before.

Katelyn, if it makes you feel less alone i am on the same boat as you :/. I often struggle with all the doubt

Quote from: Katelyn on January 27, 2017, 10:45:21 AM
Where are stories of people like her?  Transwomen like her keep quiet, and the media continually showing that one transgender narrative, ends up making me feel like I'm not legitimately female enough to transition, and makes me feel alone, and doubtful that a successful transition is possible.  I <not permitted> over my brain and my emotional system within the past nine years because of self doubt, feeling a lot more distant from my female feelings than I was before.

The (mainstream) media are a horrible source of information for -- pretty much anything, actually.  As for "keeping quiet," it's not like there's a national publication dedicated to telling trans women's (or trans men's) stories, you just have to meet and talk to people and let them tell them to you.

But there's no textbook on How To Be Trans.  You have to pick up bits and pieces from different places.  That's better anyway, since nobody knows it all.  My sources:

* susans.org -- there are a lot of trans people of all genders here, and they do tell their stories, albeit usually in bits and pieces.  In this thread alone there are many different experiences described.
* support groups -- I know maybe 20-30 people through our local groups.  There's practically nothing they'd all agree on, but I get a sense of the variety of ways there are to be trans.
* blogs by trans people.  There are a lot of them.
* Books.  I read and reread Julia Serano's Whipping Girl.  She also has a blog and a website with a lot of her articles.  Kate Bornsteins' My Gender Workbook is good, too.  "She's not there" by Jennifer Finney Boylan.

FWIW, TG fiction tends to be pretty unrealistic.  They're nice to read curled up in bed or something, but they're based on what people wish would happen, rather than what does.

As for doubt: I think that just goes with the territory.  You learn as much as you can about other people's stories, about your own deepest nature, about the practicalities.  And then at some point you have to jump or not jump and accept that whichever you do, you may decide some time in the future that it was the wrong choice.

But that's also true of any life-changing decision.

Quote from: Katelyn on January 27, 2017, 10:45:21 AM
Where are stories of people like her?  Transwomen like her keep quiet, and the media continually showing that one transgender narrative, ends up making me feel like I'm not legitimately female enough to transition, and makes me feel alone, and doubtful that a successful transition is possible.  I <not permitted> over my brain and my emotional system within the past nine years because of self doubt, feeling a lot more distant from my female feelings than I was before.

The old transgender narratives are just that, old.  The recent and largest (27,000+) survey of transgender people in the USA found that over a third of the respondents consider themselves to be non binary.  We can engage in class appropriation but to what end?  If our goals here are more about understanding and support then our language and efforts might best be directed toward inclusion and acceptance, eh?   No secret handshakes or elite clubs are needed.

Who needs a dictionary or thesaurus to define themselves?  Culture is dynamic and the pace seems to be quickening with social media like Facebook reflecting an awareness that our gender identity can have a pretty wide range.

Quote from: Asche on January 27, 2017, 11:16:45 AM
The (mainstream) media are a horrible source of information for -- pretty much anything, actually.

Yes but most people pay attention to the mainstream media, and is there any other source portraying trans people better?   Society's understanding of trans people will come largely from the media.

QuoteAs for "keeping quiet," it's not like there's a national publication dedicated to telling trans women's (or trans men's) stories, you just have to meet and talk to people and let them tell them to you.

I've done that a lot over the last nine years, most of their stories sound like the typical narrative, especially the ones that transitioned.  Many trans people have a lot of bad stuff going on in their lives, which is hardly ever encouraging.

QuoteBut there's no textbook on How To Be Trans.  You have to pick up bits and pieces from different places.  That's better anyway, since nobody knows it all.

This is about legitimacy in relation to society, because if you don't feel legitimate then how can you feel like your being honest to others if you tell them you are female?  And would they treat you less if you didn't?  I want women to treat me as a woman, not as a wierdo (and thus suspiciously.)

Quote* susans.org -- there are a lot of trans people of all genders here, and they do tell their stories, albeit usually in bits and pieces.  In this thread alone there are many different experiences described.

I don't come all that often nowadays, but in the past I did, and have done so on and off for more than ten years, and I didn't see that much variation in stories.  I used to go to another tg board even before susans and there was no variation.

Quote* support groups -- I know maybe 20-30 people through our local groups.  There's practically nothing they'd all agree on, but I get a sense of the variety of ways there are to be trans.

Support groups made me feel alienated as well because most were full TG and their stories did sound similar to the typical narrative.  Ones that didn't were genderqueer (and thus not transitioning) and questioning (which didn't stay for long.)  And I've been in support groups in three different cities.

Quote* blogs by trans people.  There are a lot of them.

Yeah and their lives didn't sound so successful.  Especially bigender people and genderqueer.

Quote* Books.  I read and reread Julia Serano's Whipping Girl.  She also has a blog and a website with a lot of her articles.  Kate Bornsteins' My Gender Workbook is good, too.  "She's not there" by Jennifer Finney Boylan.

Heard about them.  Read a little bit of Kate Bornstein's book.  Gender is not something one can freely explore if one was assigned male at birth.  I don't like it when people assume one has the freedom to explore their identity.  We live in a society that requires us to make money in order to support ourselves, which requires us to interact for the most part with other people in order to get that money, which requires us to present ourselves acceptably to others, which thus means that what other people think of us does matter, unless we have talents in non-conformist friendly job fields or are willing to struggle to survive financially.

QuoteAs for doubt: I think that just goes with the territory.  You learn as much as you can about other people's stories, about your own deepest nature, about the practicalities.  And then at some point you have to jump or not jump and accept that whichever you do, you may decide some time in the future that it was the wrong choice.

And I guess living out as transgender is to me just too risky.  I don't happen to be established in any trans friendly careers, so I guess I'm unfortunate in that regard.  I made the big mistake of choosing a rather conservative job field to get my degree in (not expecting to transition during the time.)

I keep hoping and wishing that things were different.  Since I can remember.  As early as I remember I would pray to wake up as a girl.  Then the cross dressing, the guilt.  I have fought it my whole life.  As I got older I learned new ways to fight this drive by not feeling at all and shutting down and locking my mind into my work or getting drunk.  I have wished it would go away, but it has not.  I cannot believe the wasted time and energy fighting this.  The fact that I am sitting here now writing at this site is an example of my life long battle.  The battle that will never stop.  The constant search for answers.

In 2011 I tried some hormones and my anxiety lifted like a cloud bank and I felt peace in core of my soul.  I quickly stopped, because of the voice in me that says that it is wrong.  I no longer cross dress because of my self hate of the image that is reflected in the mirror and for the fear of being caught.  For the past five years I have travelled down the spiral of fantasizing that I am a woman and always have been and how much I would like to live as one and get married to a man.  This brings me temporary relief, breaks down the anxiety, but the reality always returns and I feel foolish and dumb.  This fantasy is so frequent that it is almost nonstop now.

I very my do not like where I am, but the fantasy is the only thing that brings me peace.  I have a great family and can never show my self.  I feel that it is selfish of me and I believe I am a coward.  I honor and respect the courage here on this site and I believe I will never be the person I know I am and always be in my soul 

Am I transgender?  I do not know what it is?  I have no doubt that had I been born in the last ten years I would have been on my way to transitioning, but it is to late for me. 

Quote from: CHRIS129 on February 03, 2017, 08:12:27 PM

Am I transgender?  I do not know what it is?  I have no doubt that had I been born in the last ten years I would have been on my way to transitioning, but it is to late for me.

Hun,

By your own words, what you describe is being transgender. But what one should do in such a case is see an experienced gender therapist so you can get objective help with this lifelong misery.

This site alone is host to hundreds, if not thousands, of MTFs that have nearly identical stories as your own, and it is NOT too late. It is never too late. You are just not ready yet, but I wonder just how much more misery you will require before setting aside your fears and at least talking with somebody that is trained to help you reveal your truth, whatever it might be, to yourself?

There are many, many, many of us, that walked in your shoes. And guess what? We are now happy women, living very real lives, enjoying the moments of wondrous new days...

I am one such woman.

Come, join us!

Missy